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Originally Posted by CrushedJim
I have read HNHN and SAA. We are working with a MC.

There are two issues to deal with in our situation. One is my missing all her EN's. Two is her A.

I have corrected myself in terms of meeting her EN's which I was missing for years. I took it upon myself to learn, read, arrange MC and so on. I am working my A$$ off here.

The second issue is her A. To date, she will not even acknowledge anything more than a friendship. She does not admit to an EA nevermind a full blown A, which I believe it was. Other than attending an occasional counseling session, she does not seem to be doing much to help us. We were chatting earier this week and I mentioned someone we know who had an A. Her look went very cold and she was staring off, very distant. It seems she has a lot of guilt inside. I think she needs to come clean, admit everything and we can move forward. I aso think she sees the changes in me, feels really guilty and does not want to admit to the horrible mistake she made.

I am about to head off to the MC right now for a solo session and I am going to mention this.

CJ,

Your statement above shows some key points. Your POV of what she needs t/d for herself vs what she really needs t/d maybe different or at a different pace. Just for now.

What you wrote is correct but since she is coming for a WS perspective, her path and your path are not going in the same direction....yet. You want to eventually both be on the same path but for now it is not the same, so recovery may not be as you see it for her. Does that make sense? Ask your MC. She may be able to explain it better.

All the best,
Orchid

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Jim,

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You responded in my other thread about my situation as well as the "proof" of a PA.


Oops, sorry about that, I went back and reviewed and clearly remember saying to myself "GROSS!" when I read your other post where you talked about your evidence. I obviously didn't review before I replied this time.

Let your MC work on her. BTW, how did your session go yesterday?

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My MC advises AGAINST bringing up the OM at this time. She is reconnecting and he feels that over time she may feel more secure talking about it. If she is not ready, bringing it up would only push her away at this time. Remember we are barely 2 months past D-day.

Great advice. Leave any talk of OM out of it and keep making her feel safe. Like I said, she is more likely to share if she feels safe.

You said it yourself, you are very early in all of this. Keep doing Plan A.

Good luck.

LC






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Originally Posted by lifeschoice
...Let your MC work on her. BTW, how did your session go yesterday?

The sessions usually go well and yesterday was no different. Up until Wednesday I was doing good. Then the "demons" started poking me and the MC brought me back down. He pointed out that because of what she did, she may have a very low feeling of "self worth"; she did the very thing that she despises and it may be eating at her. Her moods are interesting to watch. Just this morning she was in a cuddling mood and shortly after, pretty cold. We went shopping and she was hugging me in the store. We got home and had lunch and she was cold and not talking again. :RollieEyes:

MC makes sure to remind me that her moods may have nothing to do with the situation. It could be anything and I cannot assume a down mood has anything to do with "us". Maybe she is hot, maybe we ran out of sugar and she needed it or any other of thousands of things. I just need to keep smiling, no LB's and make her feel loved and safe.

There has been zero chat about OM and, despite others suggesting I demand a poly, that's just not going to happen. That would bring us right back to day one of this mess. I am going to continue PLAN A and see where we go.


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Hey CrushedJim,

I am in the middle of what your wife is experiencing. Her actions sound almost identical to mine. I can say with certainty that what she is going through the fog withdrawal. THe reason she runs hot and cold is because she is fighting her addiction to him and can't decide what she wants to do: stay with you and let him go or leave you to be with him. She knows that if she shows too much softness toward you, it will undo all of the things she has told you about wanting to leave and she will have no "way out" (i.e. will have to explain to you why, when you have been meeting her EN and trying so hard and she was responding, she wants to leave again---REMEMBER that right now she is able to blame you as hte reason because you weren't meeting her EN. If she "gives in" to you, she will then to be the "bad" person if she leaves) if she decides to be with the OM. She knows that if she softens to you, she will have to let go of the thought/fantasy of being with the OM, and she is not convinced that she wants to do that yet. That is why everyone keeps telling you that the A must be exposed: it forces her to make a choice. SHe will continue to run hot and cold until she makes a choice.

Additionally, at this point, even though you are meeting her EN now, she does not trust you. She feels that it is fake and that you won't be able to keep her ENs longterm. She is waiting to see what happens. She doesn't trust you, yet she can't help responding to the way that you are meeting her needs (that is when she runs hot).

You are absolutely doing the right think if you want to keep her. Remember the post above where the FWW said that she told her husband of the affair after they reconciled and she felt GUILTY. She didn't necessarily feel a need to tell him early on because there was no emotional bond between her and her H that was demanding that she do it. The connection and love and acceptance that she feels with and from you is what will bring her to confess; nothing else. Don't try to force her; you will only be viewed as controlling and will push her away. If you want to keep your marriage, keep lovinng her. No matter what she says, accept her. Listen to her (the most important thing in my opinion). Support her. Be kind to her. Don't raise your voice. Don't threat. Don't smother. Tell her you will love her till the day you die even if she chooses to leave you. That is exactly what my husband did, and beause of that I feel back in love with him when I had been ready to walk out and fully convinced that I had no feelings for him only months before.

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Originally Posted by lgtrying
I am in the middle of what your wife is experiencing. Her actions sound almost identical to mine. I can say with certainty that what she is going through the fog withdrawal. THe reason she runs hot and cold is because she is fighting her addiction to him and can't decide what she wants to do: stay with you and let him go or leave you to be with him...

I think she is sure she wants to stay at this point. I mentioned somewhere else that on D-day I started a log. It started out for legal reasons but I have been keeping up with it for my own "therapy". Looking through the log, even a week after she filed for D, she call me at work and ask me "can we work this out?" I would say sure but by the time I got home, she was not wanting to work it out anymore. This happened 4 - 6 times. I started PLAN A mid-July and after 2 - 3 weeks, she agreed to drop the D. Once the D was off my shoulders, PLAN A became really easy.

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right now she is able to blame you as hte reason because you weren't meeting her EN. If she "gives in" to you, she will then to be the "bad" person if she leaves) if she decides to be with the OM. She knows that if she softens to you, she will have to let go of the thought/fantasy of being with the OM, and she is not convinced that she wants to do that yet. That is why everyone keeps telling you that the A must be exposed: it forces her to make a choice. SHe will continue to run hot and cold until she makes a choice.

There is no doubt I was not meeting EN's for YEARS. I recognized that and admitted it to her. I have been meeting them strong for a month now and she seems really happy. Exposure is to break up and A and I have not found anything to indicate A has continued beyond the day after d-day. Exposure at this time would be a step backward. I can't break up what is already over.

Thanks for your input. I am sure she just needs to see the changes are real...once she is sure of that, the guilt can do the rest of the work for me.



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Originally Posted by lifeschoice
You said it yourself, you are very early in all of this. Keep doing Plan A.

R been going for ONE MONTH and I am losing my mind. Why can't she snap out of it just see the new me is real?

My mind goes from "it is going good" to "she wont reconnect because she loves someone else".

Last edited by CrushedJim; 09/03/08 02:18 PM. Reason: typo

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Hey Jim, I'm not sure if I'm much help at all but I just wanted to encourage you to hang in there and keep doing plan A. Don't let her see your frustration or anger. If she feels that you are pushing her or pressing her she will shut down. Just continue to love her and acccept her. It took me six months to "snap out of it"; there is no substitute for time. She doesn't trust yet that the "new" you is real. She probably thinks that it is all an act. She may not believe that you will be able to keep it up or even that you will want to keep it up longterm. Only time will prove that the new you is real and turn her feelings back toward you. If she hasn't completely left, though, you can be encouraged that you still have a chance at saving your marriage and that your efforts are fruitful, even though it may not seem to be so; you are making progress as evidenced by her still hanging around. Stay the course.


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Originally Posted by lgtrying
...It took me six months to "snap out of it"; there is no substitute for time. She doesn't trust yet that the "new" you is real.

I have read a lot about this and I can say it really stinks. I see where PLAN A for women is usually 3 months, men have to do it for 6 months. :MrEEk: The A appears over as far as all of my EP's indicate.

What kills me is the ups and downs. Some days I understand, other days I am telling myself it is because she loves someone else. crazy Whenever she is out and I am not sure where she is, I find I am telling myself she is meeting the OM. EVERY TIME I find out later where she was and nothing is going on. But fail not, the next time it happens, I am thinking the same thing.


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Jim,

I wonder if your MC deals with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or perhaps he can recommend someone who does. If I were you I would ask.

CBT is used to redirect irrational thinking into more healthy thinking. IOW, it could really help you keep your mind from taking you to the "worst case scenario".

Just a thought.

LC





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Originally Posted by lifeschoice
I wonder if your MC deals with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or perhaps he can recommend someone who does. If I were you I would ask.

I have a solo appointment tomorrow so I'll ask.

I know that time will help heal this mess but the second I cannot account for her time, my mind is off and running. Every time she tells me about her day, everything matches up with the EP's I have in place. At the end of each day, I am certain that nothing went on. The next day, the same thing happens and my mind is off to the races again. She has NO IDEA this is all going on in my head. It is a terrible way to live.

Thanks again LC.


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Originally Posted by lgtrying
It took me six months to "snap out of it"; there is no substitute for time.

LG (or other former disconnected women):

When you "snapped back", was it a gradual easing back into intamacy or did it just click one day and hit you?


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Hi Jim,

I can only speak to my own experience, but after spending hours reading the posts here over the past month or so, I can see that the Proverb "There is nothing new under the sun" is very true, so perhaps my story is similiar to others.

For me, "snapping out of it" was not a sudden clicking that occured. It was most definitely a gradually easing back into it...very slowly..one day at a time. Even though the A ended and I had determined in my mind to work on my marriage, it was a constant battle every day to stop the thoughts of the OM. For me, it was very much like an alcoholic who has to wake up every day and determine in her mind not to have a drink; I had to wake up every day and determine in my mind to not allow thoughts of the OM to invade my mind. On days when I lost the battle--and it was a fierce battle--even a little, there was distance between me and my H. Many days when I could stop the thoughts/memories during the day, I would dream of the OM at night and wake up the next morning with the distance there between me and my H again. Jim, I am in no way asking for any pity because I got what I deserved and my struggle in no way compares to the pain of betrayal you feel, but I don't want you to think for a minute that your wife is not fighting a mental and spiritual battle, also. The withdrawal is very, very real to her. She obviously wants to fight for her marriage because she IS still with you and IS fighting for it because every minute she has to fight to keep her thoughts in line.

I would have days when I would feel very close to my H, and then that same night dream of the OM and wake up distant emotionally. I would have a great day with my husband doing something fun, connecting with him, really talking...and then be out of his presence for as little as an hour and struggle with longing for the OM....going back and forth in my mind...questioning did I want my H or the OM....was the A "real"...was I missing the "chance of a lifetime", etc., etc., etc. I struggled with all of this even while intellectually knowing the truth of the answers to all of those questions. The "feelings" were what would cause me to stumble, and if I gave even the least bit of credence to them, down I went. And remember, all of this happened with me WANTING my marriage.

I went from never being able to stop the thoughts of the OM, to stopping the thoughts occasionally, to stopping the thoughts during the day but dreaming of him at night. There were many days when I felt like I was walking a fence, waiting to see which side I would land on. I literally thought I was going insane.

Jim, one thing I do want to say is the day that made the most difference during the process was when my h very calmly said to me, "I will love you until the day I die no matter what you do. No matter if you stay or if you leave, it will never change the way I feel about you, but I will not fight with you anymore. The choice is yours." For some reason, when he essentially quit fighting with me and stopped trying to control every aspect of the situation, and placed the choice solely on my shoulders, it was freeing to me. It scared me very much to think that he would let me walk away if that was what I wanted. It made me work fiercly from that day forward on our marriage. I don't know why...perhaps because I knew that whatever happened from that point on would be my responsibiity, and I didn't want to fail. I didn't want to be the cause of my marraige ending. I didn't want to be the cause of any more pain.

It has been six months now, and my mind still tries to trick me occasionally, but each day I am becoming stronger and stronger. I will be victorious in the end. As hard as it is, be patient with her Jim. She is still with you and she it sounds like she is trying. Your marriage is worth fighting for. Time is your greatest friend at this point.




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Wow, thanks for that detailed response.

It is good to get a point of view from someone who went through what my WW is going through. My MC said that R is not linear over time. Once the reconnection starts, it shoots up quickly to a point. Then, it begins a slow, gradual climb back to the state of intamacy. Does that sound right?

What you describe sounds exactly what my WW is like. We can sit and hold each other, watching tv or whatever. Later in the evening, she seems annoyed and angry and will not touch me.

I will get unprompted "I Love You's" from her on occasion. Later in the day, I will tell her that I love her and she will just smile and not say anything back. It drives me nuts.

Discussion of SF came up yesterday and her comment was "I'm not there yet". This one makes me want to choke her. She strayed and I have to wait for her before I can get SF? GRRRRR!

I can feel the withdrawals. I know it takes time and I am going to do all I can. But my Love Bank is going to hit $0.00 eventually.


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Not that I have a huge following of my situation but there was quite a turn of events.

Friday night the kids were out so I suggested we have a picnic. We packed sandwiches and rode to a park and ate in the gazebo. It was like that switch was thrown in the opposite direction of d-day. She was warm, hugging, sat on my lap, kissed. We got home, held each other while watching a movie and slept in the same bed. Saturday wake up = SF hurray.

The time since Friday night has been great. Massive reconnection (although I am cautiously watching) and happiness. She put our situation and reconnection process a good way:

Quote
It is like buying a house. When the seller accepts your offer, you are all excited but nothing is guaranteed. Only after closing, when the keys are in your hand do you know the house is yours.

She is in that period of having the seller accepted the offer but we have not yet had the closing.

For those wanting to reconnect with their spouse, PLAN A WORKS.


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Hey Crushed Jim,
You replied to one of my posts, but I just found this one of yours. My story is a little different but relates to your request to hear from disconnected wives. I can't say we've had success though because I am very new to this site. My d-day was just a month ago. My H has basically never met my EN's in our 24 yrs together. Over time I was the one who became very disconnected and put up walls. My expressing my needs was seen as nagging and I just never felt heard. It then became very difficult for me to meet his need for SF and it became very much a chore to me. I really wasn't present except on very rare occasions. I had kind of become bitter and just focused on raising our 5 kids and taking care of the finances of our businesses. What happened to get me here on this site was that instead of me seeking EN's elsewhere, HE had the affair and blamed it on the fact that I didn't love him or meet his physical needs......very hurtful to me needless to say. There is so much to our story (he's a former NFL player, now an ordained pastor that was about to launch a church, very public figure) that I really need to post it all in concise form......do I do that in the Just Found Out Section? Anyway, he just revealed to me yesterday (he has finally started sharign his thoughts/feelings about all this) that maybe I have been right all these years and that it really was all his fault. I should be happy that he finally has "seen the light", but I want to hit him over the head with a baseball bat and say....."Duuuuhhhhhhhhhh". I am struggling with feelings of bitterness that so many years of happiness have been wasted because he was unwilling to hear me. Why did it have to come to this and why do I have to endure this for him to finally get a grip? I know those are completely rhetorical questions, and that maybe I should just accept that sometimes it takes major crisis for someone to really change. I guess I have to decide whether I want to dwell on the "only if's" and have a pity party, or be thankful that maybe we now have a chance to really deal with our issues and have the marriage that we both really want.......with eachother.


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Were you meeting his EN's? I know with certainty that I was not meeting hers. I realize that does not justify an A but it helped me understand it.

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My H has basically never met my EN's in our 24 yrs together. Over time I was the one who became very disconnected and put up walls. My expressing my needs was seen as nagging and I just never felt heard.

With that statement, you could be my wife. She went from demanding a divorce and being stone cold toward me to being loving and affectionate.

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I should be happy that he finally has "seen the light", but I want to hit him over the head with a baseball bat and say....."Duuuuhhhhhhhhhh"

It works just that way with men. I had no idea about EN's and what I was missing. After d-day and a few days of research and reading, it hit me. It was like a light switch went on. I had feeling I had never felt before. I know that most women are very suspicious of their "changed" husband and it takes time for them to see it it real. I can tell you, for me it was real. My WW is still not 100% on board with the new me but we are already closer now than we have been in years.


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I just wanted to pop in and tell you I'm following your story. I didn't think my advice would be helpful however so I haven't posted. I'm a FWW who didn't recover her marriage and I'm sure you want to hear from people who did.


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Well, I'm sort of reviving this three year old thread to report I am officially DIVORCED! I did everything I could to save my marriage and she did everything she could do to prevent it for working out. She needed "her privacy" with passwords and multiple cell phones (locked with PINs) and so on. She has all the privacy she wants now. During the divorce I subpoenaed Verizon records and as near as I can count, during the past three years has had seven different boyfriends of unknown intimacy levels. Her number one boyfriend is now all over Match.com hitting on women I actually know! I'm not sure if they are still together or if he is cheating on her. ...and I don't care!

To anyone here for support trying to recover from an affair, listen to those giving you advice. Don't believe it cannot happen to you. And, if you are not able to save it, there is life on the other side. I am a month past the divorce date and really starting to feel happy. I know I did the right thing by working my a$$ off to save it and, once I knew I couldn't, filing for divorce was the right decision.

Good Luck!


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Originally Posted by CrushedJim
To anyone here for support trying to recover from an affair, listen to those giving you advice. Don't believe it cannot happen to you. And, if you are not able to save it, there is life on the other side. I am a month past the divorce date and really starting to feel happy. I know I did the right thing by working my a$$ off to save it and, once I knew I couldn't, filing for divorce was the right decision.

Good Luck!

And good luck to you too!
I hope nothing but good things come your way.

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What an awesome success!!!!!! Thanks for popping in with the update.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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