Mehr - I am finding the Child support may be the biggest factor to bringing my WH home. When I counseled with Steve that was his thought as well.

My IM just received an email.

"IM please let Tough know I have absolutely no money for August. My next paycheck is coming at the end of August. I understand the CS check bounced for August, so I will try to make sure it doesn't for September. Do you think I can put the money I owe the bank on a credit card? I wish Tough would talk to me. I hate my job and I miss her friendship."

I asked my IM to leave off the last statement so I am not triggered by false hope.

My CS is hitting him hard. His OW is expensive. I am just working on me now. I have to put him out of my mind. Each day is getting better.

WH has the kids this weekend as well. I am going to bed early, so I can get up and powerwalk in the morning.

Tough~

Try your best to stay DARK because these "little" things add up and soon enough, POOF your LB is EMPTY. Believe me, when it is empty, you are DONE. That is the biggest obstacle that your recovery has right now, you may not want to recover by the time your WH comes to his senses.

So......what books did you get?

Your IM actually should have sent you pretty much NONE of that. See, if I were that IM, I would have probably only told you this, "Tough, WH will be getting his paycheck at the end of August." That would have been IT. See, the rest of it is bad too. You don't need to know about ANY of that. All you need to know is WHEN you are getting the money.

My CS comes directly from his paycheck before he gets it, starting on the 25th. SO I don't have to worry about how much money he has. Wooo!

That could happen... and recovery is so hard (I hear, and I am beginning to understand as I come out of the MUST SAVE THIS fog).

I think this time I will have my IM remind Foghead that I do not want to speak to him/text until he has ended the affair and moved in with his parents.

I got a couple biographies.... one is Mary, Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley.... I am on a history biography kick! I love to read.

My son starts his new school Monday, and I will spend 2 days rearranging the furniture in my house, then I start training for my part time job, and I start full time college the week after that. I am plenty busy for a good Plan B.

Being busy really DOES help. It was always those down times that I would have time to think about my WH and think about what happened.

I know that I started to become a comedy junky. I wold watch or read it whenever I could. It is important to learn how to laugh again. It really does help.

By the way.... I've now run my budget, and I am getting enough from Foghead that I don't even HAVE TO work... that's going to be gravy money, and I will save money in case I get less in the final settlement. And this job is at my college only during the week days b/w classes so it doesn't even take time from my kids. I am so blessed!

I am glad that some things are looking UP for you. It should be easier for you to keep dark. Remember, you would be suffering A LOT less if you were able to be darker.

I know that you don't feel like these small contacts effect you. I even saw you write on that other thread that you don't think that the contact sets you back to day 1, but I am here to tell you that it does worse than that. It makes you believe that you will be okay with a little more contact. And before you know it, you are back to full blown contact. You will be back in the drama again.

Stop focusing on if your WH is a cake eater, it is NOT a good thing. You don't want him to want you BOTH, you want him to become the man you need him to be and want ONLY YOU. OW was okay with him wanting both, don't stoop to her level.

I don't want to discourage you, I want only the best for you. You are doing GREAT things, I just know how much better it could be, and you are getting in the way.

No she wasn't, she had no idea he wanted both.

I am discouraged about the drop off situation. I just want the kids dropped off so when I get home, I am home. I guess I could ask to pick them up at my in laws, but it annoys me so to have to get back in my van and drive over there and load them all up (with small kids is a PITB). I will really think about picking them up. Tomorrow my family will be here so they can answer the door and get kids in.

Um, how do I stop obsessing about whether or not he wants to cake eat :P

Curse this kid-free night...

You stop obsessing about cake eating, by STOPPING.

Like I said, cake eating ISN'T good. You don't want someone who is a cake eater because he will always be looking for cake.

And you are wrong about the OW, because she knew he was married but still had an A. She knew you were in the picture. She convinced herself that he was telling her the truth, that he didn't want you, but he was still there. She was accepting crumbs. You don't want crumbs, you're worth more than that.

See, I saw a bit of a pattern here. Whenever someone talked about how your WH was showing signs of eating cake, you would break Plan B. DON'T DO THAT. Nothing you do is going to get him to come back. Nothing you don't do is going to get him to come back. It's not about you. It's never been about you.

Now, you need to just focus on YOU and YOUR PLAN.

Cake eating is NOT anything to get excited about seriously. My xwh wanted that for TWO YEARS POST DIVORCE. He was perfectly fine with us getting a divorce, and perfectly fine remarrying the other woman within 2 days of our divorce.

So it is not an honor he wants to eat cake.

when you worry about him and his "cake eating" you do break plan B.

Back to the attorney fees, I had EVERY PENNY of mine paid for. Many of my divorced girlfriends (all but 1) had their attny fees paid for. YOU ASK FOR IT in the petition, even your attny should have told you that. That's why I am worried about the attny you got.

And WHO exactly said they would not do the "no overnight visits" clause? Who said exactly they would not add it in? Again, you tell you attny what to do and they ADD IT IN to the petition. You mediate for that. If your own attny, whom YOU hired wouldn't do that, then that's a problem.

But if you're fine w/things, then ok with that. I just knew my attny IMMEDIATELY asked for all fees to be paid BY THE WAYWARD HUSBAND, the one who caused the divorce and had the affair, and that we added in that clause and got only a little bit of rumblings of negativity from my xwh and his attorney. The judge gave it to me (all attny fees) EVERY SINGLE TIME I went into court against him and it was several times. I paid only my attny retainer. That was all.

No need to even respond to what I wrote, but this is how it works in my state and in our neighboring states and how it worked for about everyone I know who is divorced.

I just wanted to make sure you did not deliberately go EASY on the wayward legally because you might have been afraid that taking a hard line on legalities might push him further away. I HAVE seen this happen over and over again though, sadly for the betrayed spouses. It doesn't work well taking that approach.

Stick to plan B and keep that as your plan. It will help emotionally. Focus on other things. Your new job, college, the kids, and read lots of books. That kept me very busy during the interim time of separation.

Wish you the best.

I assure you that is not the case. I would take him for everything and his clothes and leave him naked in the street, if the law would allow me. I want him as uncomfortable as possible.

Its not the cake eating talk that gets me to break it, its when he is trying to cake eat. I mean its not YOU.... its HIM.... and I know you are right, nothing I do or don't do will fix this.

I will ask about the attorney fees next time I hear from my lawyer. I hope it won't be for a while, I'd love this to just get set aside, but maybe WH is going to force it through.

It is REALLY upsetting when the kids get back from visiting him. My kids are very little and things come out that they did, and its SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO maddening that my kids go fishing with MY HUSBAND and HER.... all the time we could be having family time and instead my life is this, a divided family.

Yes. Yuck to the kids being with Dad and hEr. Yuck. Just yuck.
Do the best you can with that horror.
You will find a way to cope with time.
Yuck (again for it).

I am just so angry tonight!!! I hate visitation, I wish he would drop off the face of the earth. I have to tolerate him for the rest of my life because I had kids with him. I wish I had never had kids with him so I could just be rid of him forever.

When the kids come back from visitation, they scream and freak out, have a hard time readjusting. I get the hard job, he gets the good side of them and i get all the Big Feelings. I get told stuff like "I miss daddy now because he doesn't get me in trouble when I bite people."

I am so mad that he gets to just "visit" and dump everything on me, and I can't even be rid of him for good like I want to. Truly, I don't think that my breaks in Plan B are what's going to nail the coffin, its going to be the kids and visitation thing. What he is doing to OUR KIDS and rubbing the other woman and making it all out like it is some kind of a FUN TIME!!!!!!!!! It makes me so angry and hateful.

And the only thing I have to look forward to is him getting more visitation as they get older.

Reminds me of the "Mean Mother" poem that goes around on the net. I will copt it hear if you haven't seen it.

___________________

"The Meanest Mother"

I had the meanest mother in the whole world. While other kids ate
candy for breakfast, I had to have cereal, eggs or toast. When others
had cokes and candy for lunch, I had to eat a sandwich. As you can
guess, my supper was different than the other kids' also.
But at least, I wasn't alone in my sufferings. My sister and two
brothers had the same mean mother as I did.
My mother insisted upon knowing where we were at all times. You'd
think we were on a chain gang. She had to know who our friends were and
where we were going. She insisted if we said we'd be gone an hour, that
we be gone one hour or less--not one hour and one minute. I am nearly
ashamed to admit it, but she actually struck us. Not once, but each
time we had a mind of our own and did as we pleased. That poor belt was
used more on our seats than it was to hold up Daddy's pants. Can you
imagine someone actualy hitting a child just because he disobeyed? Now
you can begin to see how mean she really was.
We had to wear clean clothes and take a bath. The other kids always
wore their clothes for days. We reached the height of insults because
she made our clothes herself, just to save money. Why, oh why, did we
have to have a mother who made us feel different from our friends?
The worst is yet to come. We had to be in bed by nine each night
and up at eight the next morning. We couldn't sleep till noon like our
friends. So while they slept-my mother actually had the nerve to break
the child-labor law. She made us work. We had to wash dishes, make
beds, learn to cook and all sorts of cruel things. I believe she laid
awake at night thinking up mean things to do to us.
She always insisted upon us telling the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth, even if it killed us- and it nearly did.
By the time we were teen-agers, she was much wiser, and our life
became even more unbearable. None of this tooting the horn of a car for
us to come running. She embarrassed us to no end by making our dates
and friends come to the door to get us. If I spent the night with a
girlfriend, can you imagine she checked on me to see if I were really
there. I never had the chance to elope to Mexico. That is if I'd had a
boyfriend to elope with. I forgot to mention, while my friends were
dating at the mature age of 12 and 13, my old fashioned mother refused
to let me date until the age of 15 and 16. Fifteen, that is, if you
dated only to go to a school function. And that was maybe twice a year.

Through the years, things didn't improve a bit. We could not lie
in bed, "sick" like our friends did, and miss school. If our friends
had a toe ache, a hang nail or serious ailment, they could stay home
from school. Our marks in school had to be up to par. Our friends'
report cards had beautiful colors on them, black for passing, red for
failing. My mother being as different as she was, would settle for
nothing less than ugly black marks.
As the years rolled by, first one and then the other of us was put
to shame. We were graduated from high school. With our mother behind
us, talking, hitting and demanding respect, none of us was allowed the
pleasure of being a drop-out.
My mother was a complete failure as a mother. Out of four
children, a couple of us attained some higher education. None of us
have ever been arrested, divorced or beaten his mate. Each of my
brothers served his time in the service of this country. And whom do we
have to blame for the terrible way we turned out? You're right, our
mean mother. Look at the things we missed. We never got to march in a
protest parade, nor to take part in a riot, burn draft cards, and a
million and one other things that our friends did.
She forced us to grow up into God-fearing, educated, honest adults.
Using this as a background, I am trying to raise my three
children. I stand a little taller and I am filled with pride when my
children call me mean.
Because, you see, I thank God, He gave me the meanest mother in
the whole world.

written by Bobbie Pingaro (1967)

_______________________

You have a right to be Mad, especcially if he is playing "Nice Dad" and letting them run wild, and you are doing the real job of loving them and teaching them responsibility. When they are kids you are so mean, but when they get older they will understand that you were teaching and preparing them for life.

Some things they might not realize until they are 30, but the facts that you told them, will help to solidify good habits and descisions and by then, they will see who WH was, and how misleading being "Good Dad" was.

I still have troubles with my kids, because for years I would let it all be on my shoulders, to give my wife the chance to come to them someday, and say."Well when you were younger I did this and that, and that is why this and that happened, and it wasn't all your Fathers fault, that we struggled like we did. Thats a gamble I took, and a cross I bore, so my children would have a stable home while young. I sacrificed some of thier trust for them not having to deal with all the issues and drama of our problems. When they got older they figured it out, and I explained when nessesary, but they still don't completly get it, esspecially my daughter, my Sons do fine.

My daughter idolized my wife, because at one time, she was an awesome woman, crap i still love that woman, and she has been gone two years after years of crap that brought her to her grave, after she lost it. There is the problem though, DD got used to blaming Dad, and now she still does sometimes, because she was used to it. Its like she is still sticking up for Mom, when if I had brought out the truth when they were young, I would have crucified thier Mom, and who would have suffered the most? The children. No I manned up and took it, for the kids, and they might never see that I did it for my wife also, to break the line of the curse her family had laid at her feet for her children.

You can do it Mehr, and it will be for you that you will take it for your children. Yes you have the honor of teaching them how to live in the world, and he plays "fun dad" in fantasyland. They will realize what is the tough part of love when they get older, and will be stronger for it. Its for thier protection, even if they don't realize it now, or ever give you credit.

Like I said it is for you, and your conscience will be clean, that you lived well and taught your children, and as thier ages change, and they become more aware, you will be able to explain what happened in bits and peices as they can understand. They will learn to trust you and come to you for the harder questions in life, when they realize what they are, because you live in the real world, where people are important, not used for fantasys

But, you are going to have to deal with visitation either way, so making excuses as to why you break Plan B and why it's okay, is NOT okay with me.

I was only trying to help you by pointing out what you can do. We here are not "yes" men/women. When I see something that can be improved, I tell you. If I see a way that you are hurting yourself, I am going to tell you. The visitations will get easier. The fact that they "hang out" with OW, well a year and a half later, I can tell you it isn't any nicer to hear. It is nice that the kids don't like OW though, and that had NOTHING to do with me. I told them the truth, and that's it.

I am not making excuses for breaking Plan B.

What I said is visitation stinks, I hate it for my kids and I hate it for me, and every time they go and come back it drains my love more. I feel myself getting angry at the pain he puts me and the kids through.

Mehr,

The reason I keep poking you to make that attny do what YOU TELL HIM /HER TO DO is because none of this will stop until you 1)get full custody of the kids 2)find out with PI what is really going on with the ow and who she is and what is in her seedy past to use against her in court and 3)you make the attny do what YOU SAY to do, not what the attny does.

When you get mostly full custody you don't hear as much about what goes on in the rutting lair. You detach easier. You just do.

Not only is it BETTER for the kids and healthier to live with the responsible and good parent, but they will thank you as they age. My son has. He is SO glad I went to bat for him each time I did in court and that I pressed until I was awarded sole custody with ZERO visitation to my x unless I say it is ok and is with supervision. So I say no.

it is NOT ok that your wh is letting the kids do what they want. That's being a "disneyland dad" basically. My xwh was that, but when my little boy would assert his own feelings or wants or needs, or did something counter to what my selfish and entitled xwh wanted, he would rage at my son. Odds are your wh will treat the kids the same.

All is fine with the "disneyland dad or mom" until the kids show their OWN wishes or desires and it at some point will go against the wishes and wills of the wayward. That's when the kids btw, will see thru the facade of lies that the wayward weaves with their posom or skank ho.

But all of this CAN stop if you make that attny do what you say. That means exert force. That means you get that PI, you make the attny do some hard work and you make the attny work like mad to achieve full custody for you. There is also a tender age clause in many states, that says kids under 5 should BE WITH THEIR MOM OR PRIMARY CAREGIVER for a number of years.

Has your attny heard of that at all? It is common and we used the heck out of it. I think my attny had so many tricks up his sleeve, he made Matlock and the magician Kriss Angel look like amateurs. And he had to be that way, b/c my xwh was a street-wise ceo of a company with money to burn on the best legal help.

The best way out of this, is to pursue a hard-line approach with the wayward. If you give them an inch, they take ten miles. So don't. You punch hard and punch first and repeat.

Just know how you feel and know that the way out of this is to 1)do as Scotty says and STOP breaking plan B and 2)minimize as much as possible any time the kids have to be around the crazy wayward and his skank ho. That means TAKE ALL LEGAL means to secure full custody. 3)DRIVE the divorce. YOU drive it. YOU tell the attny what YOU want, after all your attorney works for you. YOU do not work for them.

And heck yes ask for all attny fees! And tell that attny you want a PI investigating that skank ho and what is really going on.

My lawyer (who was awesome) had a great quote. He told me that I of course, had to give my permission to get the PI to investigate both ow. Why? He told me that "if they are brazen enough women to go after a married man with a child, then they have zero morals and probably have some sort of criminal past or serious run in with the law at some time to be able to do such a thing."

I thought it was hogwash. But I did it. And lo and behold! He was right! The ow HAD a horrible past. One that ended up costing HER her custody of her own son from a past boyfriend. We even got testimony from him too, that she was a bad mom to their child. That along with the admission she had used illegal drugs in same home as her child pushed our legal case way in my favor. And how I beat a rich man.