It is because you've had a fix, you won't get through withdrawal if you keep getting fixes.

Without getting fixes, you hit the rocks, its very painful, but it is SHORT LIVED

You are trying to stop yourself hitting the rocks by getting fixes. Dr H is right, feelings should be treated as an addiction.

Addictions can be dealt with by preventing the 'mid way' behaviours which lead to you doing things which are bad for you.

A gambler would say

Red behaviours
Placing a bet

Amber behaviours
Watching sport
going to a casino
visiting race track
mixing with gambling friends

green behaviors
developing new hobbies
making new friends
keeping busy


In YOUR case

Red behaviours
Contacting WH
Allowing WH to contact you
Pressing IM to break their role

Amber behaviours
Leaving gaps in plan B which let him contact you
Having triggers around which remind you of him/affair

Green behaviours
Going dark
Making plans
Having treats
Keeping busy
Having fun
Visualise a WH free life
Mking up positive mantras

You get the jist, fill in the rest of these lists yourself

If you dont do any ambers, then you wont ever get to red.

Thanks for the rap on the knuckles Indie, and the insights... I have to get back on the wagon as they say. But I am currently feeling a lot of sadness... need to focus my thoughts more.

Had a great day out with brother and his girlfriend on weekend, though I am observing how many LBusters they have. I find I do this a lot now with friend's / family relationships, and I find this really difficult as I just don't see that H and myself had that many problems prior to March this year... yet surely WH couldn't fall so far and fast unless there were serious underlying relationship issues? I am trying to figure out in my head how much of this affair is due to our relationship difficulties or due to WH having some void in himself that he needs to fill... so here are my ramblings.

I want to reflect on the marriage so I can learn and better myself. I do know my flaws and responsibilities in the marriage, and am working on changing these in my relationship with others. I was guilty of AO's (usually in the form of bitchy comment and stomping off) and DJ's. I did the occasional IB (two girl's weekends away in last five years) but I don't think either of us had problems with IB, nearly everything bar work was done together. I realise I was not meeting his top EN's in the two months prior to leaving London, and also the eight months before we left for Africa in 2009. I was neglecting him, too complacent really and we both had to invest a lot of time and energy into saving hard for our travels. But we still had fun together, always had conversation, affection. But I guess they aren't his top EN's, I think admiration is number 1 that OW is meeting.

But I am also starting to think my WH is acting as a very lost and emotionally immature person right now... I am trying to look for signs leading up to his total sense of entitlement he now has, but am still foggy myself. There was an episode two years ago when we went out with friends to the pub, and I returned home when the pub shut asking him to come with me as the next day we had agreed we would spend the day going somewhere nice and he would cook me breakfast. Instead he went out clubbing with friends by himself (this was not normal for us, we usually went together) and I got very annoyed and felt hurt over this. He got very drunk, and ended up sleeping on the couch / bathroom floor because he was so ill (again, he is not typically a big drinker and we did not sleep separately other then this night or on very occasional nights apart with family) Anyway, I found out a few months later from friends that he had lost his false tooth on that night, whereas he had told me that he broke it at work and needed it replaced a few days after the night out. He had specifically asked these friends not to tell me that he lost it, to cover up for him. I should have seen the warning signs with this level of dishonesty. Although I laughed about it when friends accidentally let it slip, I told him later that I was hurt that he had covered it up rather then just accepting responsibility for being a drunken idiot and doing something stupid.

I can also see that in the last few years WH has become increasingly angry with others... so much so that a colleague actually called him Tourettes due to his verbal aggression. Most of his anger was about people acting to be what he perceived as disrespectful to him or someone he cared about, or acting in some way outside his control. I think my WH has huge control issues, and even when back in Australia he agreed that he would use ultimatums with me when he felt I was "out of control". I do not consider myself as someone who is out of control, although I can be stubborn, we both can be. And relationships should not be about control anyway. WH has said that he considers himself an "easygoing guy" and in many ways with friends he is, but with me and his family I would not say he is always so easygoing. I suspect his anger is a sign that there is something else going on, and I think he is actually attributing his anger to me, which I know is not right as most of his anger was at work (the job he has previously hated but has rushed back to London for).

His anger was rarely directed at me, but when it was it was nasty and a very very personal attack. Very degrading, and on a few occasions was in front of friends / family.

Looking back on the past is important.

You have to grieve and to process some

Then you will reach a point where you say enough.

You haven't broken Plan B, you just skirted to tthe edges a bit

Its so easy to be tempted to break it, that you cant really.

Like you with the email, I came within seconds of breaking plan b when I got that text, all because I left the stupid landline unchanged. Amber behaviour that nearly went red.

Just keep out of the red!!

Breathe, get hugs, get sleep make plans to treat yourself.

You're doing fine

Well Indie, its good to know that someone else, whom is very capable I may add, is keeping a close eye on the plan Bers around these parts. You are doing great girl keep it up.

Now, Caracal, this is normal after effects of near or direct contact. Do you think that you were pressing your I'm for info as much before that email from your WH as you were after?

Your I.M. has taken on a great deal by agreeing to be your I'm and a great Plan B can not be performed without one. It is integral to your personal recovery that your I.M. not give in again. You also need to be accountable for your actions and not press you I.M. She has taken on a most difficult task try to make it as easy on her as possible. You don't want to burn her out and need to go looking for a new one.

In short, the feelings you are experiencing are normal after any type of contact so don't do anything to experience that again.

And in the future, just remember that the vets know what they are talking about and they have seen it all and then some. And your WH, he is very typical. Which is good since these plans work best with typical waywards. Oh and BTW, a lot of affairs happen in good marriages. An affair isn't a gage of the wellness of a marriage, what it is is an indication of weak boundaries on the part of the WS.

I am not doing so well in Plan B... staying dark, but having a very hard time with the sadness, the grief is overwhelming. I am scared that this still is not rock bottom, and I don't know how much lower I can sink, feel like this is drowning. Going to work today with puffy eyes from a bad night... not looking good at all.

I feel that Plan B has simply given the happy couple the freedom to go off into the sunset without having to be reminded at all about me, the BW who is coming apart at the seams.

How on earth do Plan B'ers stop the thoughts of the affair and the WS? I don't think that much of OW (actually, I think WH is likely taking advantage of her given her age) but am obsesing about him, someone who is not worthy of this given his selfishness.

Every day is just going through the motions, pretending for others benefit, trying to fake it till I make it. In my situation, with the geographical distance between us and the separation since 12.06, I know I should be getting over this, but am not. I go out, visit friends, work, apply for other jobs, have baths, etc, but I can't really say I am having happy moments... what am I doing wrong?

OMG, I am having my own pity party here, sorry!

You only went into Plan B a minute ago! Its not a pity party, You are EXACTLY where you should be.

Do you know why? Because your heart hasn't been hardened and calloused like the waywards' have been. In your case, grieving leads to healing.

Unlike you, I was close enough to OW that I managed to get a good look at the two of them post exposure. They didnt look like a happy couple. They were snarling, gaslighting, pits of depression and rage.

I think we can all do without that sort of happiness, cant we? I can even pity it.

Grieve at this stage. I went through all the stages of grief like clockwork although it varies with people. I have been thinking of setting up a thread on these stages because I really felt them.

Dont pretend or fake it. Tell people you are hurting. The sooner you do your crying, the sooner it is done.

Caracal, you are going through Withdrawal. That is completely NORMAL. And to top it all off, you get to grieve too. Fun, eh? Not even a little, I know.

All of these thoughts are normal, because your mind is trying to make the hurt stop, and it is trying to convince you to talk to him, to be in his world again, because it hurts so much. Don't give in and it WILL get better. Have you read Indie's thread? How about mine? There are a lot of threads with people who did some really great Plan Bs, and some who didn't. There is lessons to be learned from both, because the ones who weren't as good at it, you can "feel" their pain and see how unnecessary it was. When you are feeling down, let yourself cry for a set amount of time, and then let yourself scream at WH and the universe(without actually contacting him of course).

Also, do you write a journal? It really helped me get my feelings out, and I could process them. Looking back on them now, I don't even recognize that person.

We are letting you grieve, so we're taking it easy on you, ATM. We will let you know when your thoughts are harming your personal recovery.

Come here for support, vent, and read. You will make it. Do you have support IRL? Someone who can give you a real hug(NOT A MAN).

Indie, it is so sad but I am envious of you being able to take comfort in a sense that SL and OW are miserable together. You did a great job on exposure and were witness to the karma bus in a way. With absolutely no idea what is going on in Planet Wayward, I imagine everything is roses... whether it is or not I have no way of knowing, but with weak exposure, and anyone capable of exerting influence on WH being in another continent, it is likely he is just having the time of his life with younger OW. I really believe my Plan B is what he would prefer, as he now does not even have to be reminded of betraying or hurting me.

But I do pity his moral slide, he has crossed boundaries that he once would never have imagined doing.. and it must take a lot of energy I imagine to convince oneself that this slide is acceptable. Lying to others is bad enough, but lying to yourself... not somewhere I ever want to go.


Come on Indi, I am waiting!!!

Scotland, I have read your and Indie's thread, these are both very helpful. Currently reading sexymamabear's, maybe not the best one to read at the moment as it has the ending I so hope for rather then just personal recovery. But still learning lots.

What suprises me about some threads (like SMB's and princessmeggy's) is how the situation just seems so hopeless, with WH's having separated and having so little contact if any. But it can change so quickly. I need to be very careful with my thoughts, as I am still tend to think that my nightmare started so quickly and unexpectedly that maybe we will also wake up out of it in the same way... with a lot of hard work on recovery. But I can not keep hoping and waiting for WH to "come to his senses". I wish I had been exposed to the affair so that I could lose my love for WH quicker... I seem to be in limbo because I have had so little exposure to WH if that makes sense? So I still very much have positive memories of marriage and him...

I am not keeping a journal, I did initially but did not find this very helpful. Just made me cry more. And I am avoiding contact with men, I know I am very vulnerable right now and have even had the thought of revenge affair just so I could have some physical comfort and get my own back on WH (not that he would care!) I will not do this, I recognised the need and have put the boundaries in place. I do not want to make myself sink to the same level as WH, nor treat someone else so disrespectfully. And I would hate myself after, I know what my views of marriage are now more then before WH's affair. And I like myself for these beliefs.

But I do miss hugs... and hugs from husband especially.

Caracal, it most definitely is NOT all rainbows, roses and unicorns in A-ville. See, their A is built on very selfish people trying to get whatever they want. It WILL IMPLODE. It WILL. Who knows how long it will take? It depends on the people involved, but I can GUARANTEE that is would last LONGER if you were still involved. Stay out of the drama, the A will implode faster that way, but that's not why you are doing it.

I am not proud of some of my behaviour at the minute, mainly towards my parents and I don't know if I even understand it myself. My parents and I have always been very close, especially my mum and I. When in UK I was on phone to her nearly every second day, just to chat. My WH used to always tease me about this, think he felt sad about it as it reminded him of his loss.

But at the moment I simply cannot talk with my parents. They are on an extended holiday, and calling me to check I am okay. But it acts as a trigger for me, and even if up to that point I have been sort of emotionally okay, talking with them makes me start to unravel and sink very quickly. Last night my dad rang, and I actually said I had to go, I couldn't talk. My poor father was on the other end of the line begging me not to hang up, so I tried to chat and failed miserably. Then he asked me to speak with my mum, and I just couldn't do it. Hanging up the phone cued another bout of sobbing. I text them later to say I love them both so much but just can't talk right now and that they shouldn't worry. Yeah right, I know if the shoe was on the other foot I would be worrying like crazy.

Why am I hurting the people who love me, why am I letting WH's actions effect the relationships I have with others? I think my parents contacting me triggers me into feeling betrayed as they have also left me at a time when I need them most, just as WH has. I know this is not rational, not mature, but on some level it is how I feel. But to punish my poor parents when it is really WH who has caused me to have these abandonment issues is unfair... I know that, but keep doing it anyway. My actions are no more excusable then WH's, hurting the ones who love us. I must stop this behaviour.

Thanks for reading, anyone else had relationships effected like this or acted unfairly to loved ones?

He as a WW is no longer the same man that you married and therefore you as a BW are not the same either.

The BS exhibits a cocktail of emotion which is very powerful and you will be able, at a later stage, to see this more clearly.

With time the emotions will fade and a more balanced attitude will prevail but at the moment you are the captive of the roller coaster and your only option is to allow yourself to experience the triggers at full force.

Believe me all of us BW have been there and it does get better.

Oh Caracal,

I am so sorry you are hurting so badly now. The rollercoaster of emotions is awful. I don't remember everything I did in the weeks after D-day. I do remember driving alone down a narrow country road at 85 mph, screaming as loud as I could.

I can't remember if you have thought about a low dose of anti-depressants to even things out. I resisted asking for them for quite some time. But I really did need them. Remember that this is likely the worst thing that will ever happen to you in your lifetime.

Your parents will understand. I am certain they wish they could shoulder the pain for you if they could. When do they return from their trip?

AM

Caracal,

I used to do that too... not being able to talk to my parents because I was so choked up. My parents were not on vacation.

Thinking back on it, I believe it was just my guard breaking down with them because they were always my protectors and safe haven.

Betrayal brings on the most intense emotions you will ever feel. Allow yourself to feel it and work through it. It starts with huge waves that get smaller and smaller with time.

Hang in there. Don't beat yourself up for feeling pain.

(((hugs)))

Did the exact same thing too. Even though my parents and sis were amazing - got into a snarling rage with them.

I havent argued with my parents or sis since I was a teenager sharing the bathroom!

Made me realise I was going through the most painful thing ever and I apologised when I was short with them - they understood.

Another thing - and this was very odd - is that even trusting my amazing family felt dangerous.

I remember looking at the people who loved me and thinking - would you ever betray me? Even though they had done nothing to deserve that.

But my best friend and husband had just stabbed me in the back, the rug had been pulled and my feet were not steady yet.

One time I had a bad dangerous skid in the car on black ice and for weeks afterward, though the weather was fine, i kept expecting the road to spin madly beneath me again.

It went away. So did this.

Thanks for all of the supportive words.

AM, my parents are expecting to return mid October... so I have a while to get through! Really reluctant to go on anti-depressants, just a personal choice, though I am realising that if withdrawal / grief continues for another two weeks I have to do something... I keep hoping things will level out a bit with Plan B.

Indie and Poker, it really is reassuring to hear that I am not the only one who treated others poorly. Still feel crap for doing it though!

Indie, not sure if you have experienced this or not (and maybe if you have it does not disturb you as much as it does me). But I am finding it so insulting that others misguidedly keep telling me "at least you don't have kids", "move on, no children are involved"", "be grateful, it is easier for you with no children" or some other rubbish.

Having read posts here with kids involved, hats off as I know it can make some things more difficult, especially with Plan B and I figure healing must be so much more difficult as WS remains in your life in some way. Many posts on this forum talk about how having kids helped them cope with the crisis, gave them something to focus on, made then want to try to save the marriage for the sake of the children. So for those of us who don't have them, but are still trying to save the marriage just because we love WS and believe in our vows, I think we deserve some recognition too. And the pain is not any less because we don't have children, it does not make it any easier to move forward and let go of the person we trusted most.

Maybe this gets up my nose so much as WH spewed fogbabble about how he wouldn't leave me if we'd had kids... his version of making himself out to be a good guy, as it is okay to cheat on loving wife of 11 years cause she ain't barefoot and pregnant! Another rant over...

caracal, those people who are saying that to you are just doing what they think will help. Of course it doesn't. While it is sometimes easier because we have children to focus on during our grief, as you said, it isn't all too good on us when there are visits, and other things dealing with the children and WSs. You are still hurting. In some ways, I would assume that the BSs who don't have children feel almost like they wasted those years with their WS. And some of us with children feel like it might be easier if we didn't have them. Read all my ramblings, what I am really saying is that is sucks no matter what.

I too lashed out at my parents. My dad would call me, which was very odd behaviour, and I would just say, "Yea, I am okay."

I didn't use ADs, but now I really wish that I had. Believe me, if I were to attempt MR, I will RUN to the doctor's because I won't be able to deal with that alone.

Just keep processing and try finding things to keep your mind off of your sitch. Do you read any books? How about TV shows? Comedies? You need to do something to raise your spirits.

It's not just you.....I do the same thing.
I call it a "Self imposed exile".
And to my Family and the people who care about me, I tell them why I do it.....because talking too much or too deeply triggers a bad emotional reaction.
So.....ask them to give me the time and space to let me self-heal and we will talk about it after.
My very inner circle are the only ones who can see me crying or distraught.....and even then it's on my terms.
Do what you need to do to maintain your emotional strength and stability.
I know exactly what you mean and how you feel.


AMEN to that!
The 2 weeks after my D-Day was like a bad dream state.....just terrible and now it seems like a blur.

Caracal,

I took a long time before I started anti-depressants. I had always thought of myself as strong emotionally and able to problem solve logically. My H's A changed me though. I started the anti-depressants several months after D-day. I wish I had done it sooner. It helped to even things out. The other thing I had to acknowledge was that I had PTSD after my H's A.

Re. your H's comment about not leaving you if you had children - fogbabble. If it weren't that comment, it would have been some other comment. Justification of horrible behavior is standard for waywards.

Do you spend time with friends?

AM

Another "yes" to anti-depressants. They do not make a person feel "strange" or dulled. I was on an AD for a few years due to anxiety disorder and they really did help. It takes a couple of weeks for the brain chemicals to start to be affected, but they really do help to even out the emotions and help the thinking to be more clear.

Also, my H has had long-standing chronic depression during stressful periods of his life, and the meds helped tremendously. The earlier meds affected his sexual performance and drive, and that was pretty bad downside, but the newer ones don't have that effect at all. We found them to be a God-send.

Try to look at it the same way as any illness. In the case of diabetes or heart disease, most of us would take the necessary meds. In the case of depression, the brain chemicals are disrupted and need to be put back to rights. They really do help. And when no longer needed, you can wean off, under the guidance of the doctor, of course.