I have been lurking on this site since shortly after D-Day (April 2011). The MB principles have really resonated with me, and the posts in this forum have given me some hope and comfort. However, I need help in applying all of the principles in a more comprehensive way, instead just �dabbling� in them. I feel our journey to recovery has stalled lately, and I�d appreciate any advice from those who have been done this road before.

I discovered my WW affair as she was on her way back from a 'girl's weekend' trip. I learned that she was actually away with her POSOM. When I first saw her when she returned, she knew by the look in my face that I had found out. I asked her who she was with, and of course she still tried to keep up the charade and said she was with the girls. I then told her I knew she was with POSOM. She then panicked and started to cry and begged me not to kick her out. She appeared immediately remorseful and sincere. She was immediately open to my questions, and admitted that it had been going on for three years. She was covering it with �girl�s nights out� �weekends with the girls� etc. She told me right then that she never wanted to leave, and never stopped loving me. I was too hurt and shocked to really process much that night.

The next day she broke off contact with the POSOM via a phone call that I was not aware of (first mistake). She continued to answer all my questions, gave up all her passwords (or so I thought), and gave me her cellphone. I�ve come to find out later that she was still not telling the whole truth, but �as much as she could at the time�. We entered into couples counseling, which has helped some. The biggest thing that the counselor does is help us to communicate better, but I don�t believe the counselor will really be able to help us survive this affair. I am certain that we need MB for that.

After about two weeks, WW emailed POSOM on a secret email account that I wasn�t aware. They traded emails for a few days. These were done at her work, where I have no access to monitor the machine. After a few days of this, I just knew by the way she was acting that contact had resumed. She was more distant, extremely depressed and suicidal. After a few days of questions from me, she finally admitted the break in no contact. She then drafted a formal NC letter that I approved and she sent. From that point on there has not been any direct contact. However, after a few days, my WW began hacking into his email account and reading the old messages in his account and ones that he was drafting but not sending. I eventually figured this one out too and she gave me his password and all the messages in his account were deleted. Over the course of the next few weeks, similar things happened with me playing detective and her trying to hide stuff. By late June she had finally given up all hidden messages, pictures, etc. We were really starting to reconnect after that, until July when she decided to look at the POSOM�s facebook page and went into another suicidal tailspin because POSOM had a new girlfriend. Since that point she has been so angered and obsessed with that, that she has not been focused on rebuilding our marriage.

As of 4 weeks ago, she has sworn that she hasn�t looked at his page, and is trying to get the focus back on us. She is slowly coming back out of the fog, but it is frustrating to say the least. Logically she knows what a POS the OM is, and that he is not what she wants, but withdrawal from the affair is still there because of her lapses.

Sorry for the long first post, but I wanted to give you some background.

We have implemented our list of EPs, and have identified our ENs and are working to meet then for each other. Most weeks we are doing 15 hours UA, but need to do better on keeping that consistent. We are also practicing RA and POJA. We did not start with the SAA book, but read a few other after the affair books. We ordered SAA and it is being ship to us I as type. We are working through HNHN and LB, but it sounds like we are not ready for that yet?

Any advice or questions are welcome.

Thanks!

Welcome CharpyTest, good to see you here.

I'll let the vets do most of the talking re recovery, but the UA time you mention isn't enough. 15 hours is for maintaining romantic love, recovery from an affair is more like 25hours+

Sounds like a lot of her breaks in NC are related to computer use, do you have a key logger in place? Does she still have a facebook account? Have her numbers and email addresses been changed so he cannot get in touch with her?

The work computer sounds like a blind spot, but not sure what you can do about that, perhaps other people can advise....

Also wondering if you have considered a GPS in her car and a polygraph?

Can you post your list of EP's and EN's here?

Please visit the Operation Investigate to find out about the software you will need to install on all computers and cell phones.

I applaud you for seeing the in your wife's behavior when contact resumed. Continue with your intuition here. Any slight deviation in her behavior or honesty should be met with hard core consequences.

She cannot have contact for life moving forward. I recommend no facebook for her at all, but if you feel comfortable, then I suggest a joint account as husband and wife only.

Your emotions are going to go through a rollercoaster of ups and downs.

The key is to vent here and not at your wife. Your goal now is to focus on what she needs out of you for emotional needs and how to avoid all lovebusters with her. If she has a super strong EN that was targeted spend more of your 20+ hours there in the beginning so you are dumping love into her.

When I first started lurking on this site in April, I spent quite a bit of time looking through Operation Investigate. My WW also posts here, I don't want to get into specifics, but I believe I am doing all I can in the monitoring department. The work computer is still a blind spot, but facebook is blocked there, plus I look at her account to ensure POSOM remains blocked.

I am also not worried about the POSOM contacting my wife. The pathetic little coward is terrified of me. This scumbag is an ex-felon, who got his current job by lying about his criminal history on his job application. I could get him fired with a single 30 second phone call to his employer. I really do want to call his employer, to expose his fraud and to hurt him, but I am holding that over him as insurance to keep him from contacting WW.

During the first month after DDay we were spending 25+ in UA time. However, as this recovery, or false recovery?, has dragged on we have let that time slip. After 5+ months, I am exhausted from trying to fulfill her ENs, but not getting enough back. I believe she is very sincere in wanting to make this work, but the extremely long withdrawal is a killer.

Her recovery is also hampered by her ongoing depression. The depression was a factor in our marriage even before the affair, and it has only gotten worse with the end of the affair. The affair chemicals were giving her "a boost", and reducing the severity of the depression. Her self-loathing for what she has done is so intense sometimes that she expresses suicidal ideations. This causes her to daydream about the affair, which cause more self-loathing (because logically she see what a train wreck the affair was), which causes a deeper depression, and so on. It is a vicious cycle. Both the depression fallout and the affair recovery are too much for me sometimes, but I keep on pushing through as best as can for my children.

Our EP's are hand written, but I type them out and post them soon. We took a list of EP's that someone else had posted and added to it.

My top 5 ENs:
Conversation
Sexul Fulfillment
Honesty & Openness
Domestic Support
Family Commitment

Hers:
Affection
Admiration
Conversation
Family Commitment
Domestic Support

Facebook has a backdoor and as long as she has a facebook account, she can see him even if he is blocked. It is a loophole in the softward. If she gets through enough friends, there is a chance she is linked to him with pictures.

My thought concerning her depression is to get her to listen to Just Learning and up her value system.

She has to begin giving back in order to change the thoughts.

Her emotions will follow her actions. You both have FC as a high need. I strongly encourage you to pay it forward together with your kids.

Part of your 20+ hours/week. The both of you together do something where she can contribute herself in a selfless manner. Maybe you both coach your kids together, volunteer at the library to read, help with projects at school.

She is going to have to take charge of her depression. Did you say she is on anti-depressants? If not, Dr. Harley encourages this during withdrawal.

You can only work on yourself. Her withdrawal is so long because she continued contact. With NC this time - it should not be as long.

Hi CT, welcome to Marriage Builders! Sorry you are here. A few things stand out so I will address them. The first is the facebook account. She needs to DELETE it entirely. Just because she has him blocked does not mean he can't be unblocked and re-blocked in 2 seconds. And it doesn't matter if you find out, because the damage will be done. Even having him blocked does not prevent her from looking at his pictures through a friends page. It is just not worth it. I would insist she delete it entirely.


It is time for her to step up to the plate and start doing a better job of meeting your needs. I would sit down and schedule 25 hours per week of UA time and focus only on the 4 intimate emotional needs:

affection
conversation
sexual fulfillment
rec companionship

Those 4 will make the biggest love bank deposits the FASTEST. And it is important that this time is spent away from children and others and NOT watching TV. That will get you the fastest results.

If you can swing it, the MB online program is fantastic because they assign you a coach who walks you through the lessons and guides your program. You have daily access to Dr Harley too over on the private forum. My H and I went through this and it really does work.

As long as your wife is on the internet without you, this can and will happen again. Over and over again. You can see how this triggered your wife the last time. It will again.

Maybe a better solution is for her to stay off the computer unless you are with her? Dr Harley has recommended this solution several times.

Does the time we spend together with our kids count towards the 20+ hours/week? If so, we definitely hit that. One of our issues is that due to the age of our children, we are a very kid-centric family. Getting quality couple time is what we are struggling with. We've stopped watching tv, and try to do a few hours each night after the kids go to sleep, but we are generally exhausted from work and taking care of the kids all day.

She has been on anti-depressants since the birth of child #3 (6 years). She hasn't recently found a more caring physchiatrist and they are working to find a better dose/med. She is proactively trying to find a healthy way to manage her depression. I am actaully very proud of her for that. Many people with depression actively fight treatment. The stories on some of the depression forums bear this out. (Not sure if it ok ton mention another forum here, but I have found the depression fallout book and website helpful for support of the non-depressed spouse).

CT, all the time with the kids should be deducted because you cannot give each other undivided attention when the kids are there. I would start lining up babysitters and writing out a schedule. The time together should be in 2 to 4 hour blocks and preferably away from home. UA time at home is usually not very effective because it is too easy to be interrupted by children, household duties, phone calls, etc. And if you wait until the end of the day, you are not at your best. If you are like me, you are exhausted and are sitting around in your sloppy yoga pants and a tshirt. That is NOT good UA time.

A better way is to go out when you still have energy. It is much more condusive to romance when you put on some nice clothes and go out together. My H and I go out for dinner when we get home from work and then plan a drive or shopping together. We love going to Walmart or Sam's after a nice dinner, and just wandering around holding hands and talking.


It is in your children's best interest for you to evolve to a marriage-centric family. Their security very much depends on their parents having a great marriage.

Caring for Children Means
Caring for Each Other

Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.


Children desperately need parents who stay married to each other, and love each other. Their future depends on it. Yet, their parents are very likely to lose their love for each other after they arrive, because they forget why they married.

They didn't marry to raise children -- they married to meet each other's intimate emotional needs. And the presence of children tends to make them think that they don't have time and energy to meet those needs anymore. When that happens, they lose their primary motive to be married -- their love for each other.

A man and woman usually decide to marry because they have formed a very successful romantic relationship -- they are in love with each other and are meeting each other's intimate emotional needs. They want to make that romantic relationship last a lifetime, so they marry. At the time, they are optimistic about keeping their love for each other alive, and they don't expect anything to threaten that love -- least of all, children. But if they were to understand how their love was created, and how it is sustained, they would immediately see why children are such a risk.

<snip>

When opportunity for undivided attention is taken from a couple, the meeting of intimate emotional needs is no longer possible. And when the meeting of intimate emotional needs is no longer possible, the love a man and woman have for each other withers and dies. And when their love for each other is gone, the risk of divorce is extremely high.
continued here

CT, I will add that affairs CAUSE depression so just ending the affair should make a difference. Depression is a classic symptom of an affair. My personal theory is that it comes from persistant violations of one's conscience. It is hard to quiet a screaming conscience and it can only be done for so long. Many waywards resort to alcohol or drugs as a result. As she comes out of the fog, her depression will lessen.

[quote=MelodyLane]
Hi CT, welcome to Marriage Builders! Sorry you are here. A few things stand out so I will address them. The first is the facebook account. She needs to DELETE it entirely. Just because she has him blocked does not mean he can't be unblocked and re-blocked in 2 seconds. And it doesn't matter if you find out, because the damage will be done. Even having him blocked does not prevent her from looking at his pictures through a friends page. It is just not worth it. I would insist she delete it entirely.

[quote]

Thanks for posting Melody. I have thought about having her delete her Facebook account. She actually shut it down for the first two months after d-day. However that did not stop her from email contact. During the affair she morphed into a female James Bond. There were secret email accounts, disposable cell phones, secret credit cards, etc. Having her delete her Facebook account will not stop her from looking at the POSOM�s picture, it wouldn�t even slow her down. By googling the POSOM she can see facebook picture. At least with the account open, I can see that he is still blocked. If she unblocks him, she can�t block him again for 24 hours, so I should have time to see that.

I�m also aware of the FB backdoor, and have actually used that in my snooping. Luckily the POSOM has few friends, and I am confident that I can quickly triangulate any attempts by my wife to use that method.

I don�t want to go into too much detail on all the methods I am using, since WW is on this forum. She says that she will not look at my thread, and she means it, but you never know when she will have a wayward moment and decide to look.

The biggest gap in my defense is her work computer. Facebook is blocked there, but she could always google, or set up another secret email account. Not sure what to do about that one.

I have tried my best to make it as hard as possible to look at anything without my knowledge, but to your point once she makes contact, even if I discover it, the damage is already done.

One of out EPs is that there will be no googling, no Facebook searches, no secret emails accounts, etc.

Great advice. We are definitely making efforts to be marriage-centric. Prior to and during the affiar, it was only about the kids. We only went out on 'dates' on anniversaries and birthdays. Really makes me sad. We totally lost 'us'.

We have set times to go out alone each month, but not enough. In fact, we are going out tonight for shopping and dinner. After that we will sit down and schedule our time more carefully. We need to get more creative with our work and childcare schedules to get 20+ or even 15+ hours of UA, especially if it is outside the house.

I would definately have her just delete the account. While it won't stop her from finding other ways if she is intent, it will stop her from THAT way. And it will stop her from being triggered when she is on facebook. Facebook is one of the TOP ways affairees stay perpetually triggered, so I would not let that happen again. When she is on facebook, she will always be tempted to go find his page.

Just because she previously found a way around facebook, does not mean you should not eliminate that path. She also found a way around other contact methods too, it does not mean you don't avoid basic affair proofing methods. If fb is a trigger, and I assure you it is, it should just be eliminated. Not worth the risk.

I would have her establish a Post-Nup for you then.

You get full custody, she pays you $$$$ in child support, she pays all lawyer fees if there is divorce, etc.

I encourage severe consequences if she breaks No Contact. Your bar has to be HIGH now or you will bleed to death with each false recovery.

My H and I sit down every Sunday and schedule this out for the next week. If the time is not scheduled, then it is too easy to put it off. And once you fall in love again, you will find yourself greatly looking forward to this time. There is a workbook that Harley sells, Five Steps to Romantic Love, that has the UA time worksheet schedule in it. We pulled this out and made copies.

And with your kids, it takes even more careful planning. One idea might be to line up local teenagers to baby sit the same night every week.

Quote

I am also not worried about the POSOM contacting my wife. The pathetic little coward is terrified of me. This scumbag is an ex-felon, who got his current job by lying about his criminal history on his job application. I could get him fired with a single 30 second phone call to his employer. I really do want to call his employer, to expose his fraud and to hurt him, but I am holding that over him as insurance to keep him from contacting WW.

But apparently not scared enough to have an affair with your wife in the first place. And how do you know that he's afraid of you? From your wife, right? I wouldn't be worried about POSOM contacting your wife, I would be more concerned with the reverse. Never understand anyone who thinks they can blackmail someone into doing something, better just to destroy them from the get go.