Dr. Harley on telling the children:

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oh no i didnt whitewash his affair. i have been honest with son. he knows his dad left for the ow. he said his dad even made him feel abandoned and that he didnt matter. he said he is over it. He has been in counseling also. He just made the statement there is nothing wrong with me so I dont understand why Im here, its my dad who has the problems. that made me laugh. I just havent given him details of everything that happened. There are things that i dont want to share with him. He has said he doesnt trust his dad and he doesnt want extra time with his dad.

The counselor told me he looks for son to write his dad off as soon as he is no longer required to visit him. i was told the best thing i could do is now stay out of their relationship. He said he feels there is no repairing what ex did to son unless he is willing to take responsibility for what he did and stop trying to blame everyone else and pretend it didnt happen. That isnt going to happen.

Im just ready to put all this to rest. I felt it was part of closing the door on ex. I told son he knows that if he ever needs me while with his dad that im there. He knows that if its really bad that i would come but i would have to bring the police with me. Im finding he is very smart and more understanding that I thought he was.

The statement the counselor made me most happy stating was he feels after everything son has been thru this will make him a good dad and son has a good head on his shoulders. Im repeating this with pride. The counselor also said the more son sees me getting healthier the better that is for him.

i did ask ex to sit down with me and explain to son why we were getting a divorce (this was a couple of years ago) and ex was infuriated and looked at son and said your mom thinks im leaving her for another woman. then he got up and stormed out. ex has done things that son has seen. he forgets son is 16 not 5 and that son isnt stupid. but then as soon as our divorce was final he was marrying the ow.

the reason the counselor said for me to stay out of their relationship is because son is angry at his dad. He has told his dad he doesnt want to come visit him, he doesnt want extra time, and he tells him when he doesnt come to xtra school or church stuff. That is when I get the oh poor me messages. Then when I dont bite he gets ugly and blames me. Ex says stuff like its your fault how son treats me and you have turned him against me, he doesnt love me anymore, you dont know what its like, how would you feel if he did this to you, you never get onto him for how he treats me. I could go on and on. The counselor said its a way for him to also keep a hold on me by pulling me into his mess. He said I need to stay out of it and just be supportive of son. He said I dont need to ask questions about their stuff either except if ex does something that will harm son. cousnelor said son has to learn lifecoping skills and how to deal with his dad. he said son cant divorce his dad like I did. he has given him some really good things for son to say that isnt disprespectful to his dad. Now he is learning about personal boundaries. He has a great counselor that has been a huge help with son. ex is vindictive and son see this. the last weekend he was with his dad, ex left son at his grandmothers while he went to play softball. he should have just left son at home then. When ex thinks he is punishing me, he will also punish son. Son sees all this. He knows dad has issues but they arent sons issues. therapist said son is also punishing that side of the family to an extent.

what i was looking for is to see how others dealt with getting away from their ex. maybe someone has tried something i havent thought of or a way to coparent so to speak without alot of interaction.

TNA, thanks for clarifying this. When you said you did not give him details, I thought he did not know about the affair.

Harley recommends cutting off ALL contact with exes in these situations and having only PERTINENT information screened and passed through an intermediary.

Co-parenting is a destructive construct created by lazy divorce court bureaucrats who don't give a rip about children. A much better approach is called parallel parenting where there is no direct contact with the other parent.

The reason this is preferable is because most divorces ARE NOT "amicable" [or they wouldnt be getting divorced in the first place] and the continuing contact only causes needless stress, anxiety and often depression. That is not good for any parent and only hinders your ability to be the best you can be.

You can be a better parent by NOT communicating directly with him, in other words.

sorry is should have made all that clear. we have been in this for 5 years, d for 2. ex isnt happy and has been trying to hang on in a way. i think he would come back but he is not wanting to leave ow until he knows he has someone to go to. its just his actions that have lead me to that conclusion. Now I would love to tell the story and why i believe this and someone say oh its your imagnation. i just dont want to live on what if's anymore or if he came back. it wouldnt work and i know this. he hasnt changed and he wont. im just trying to find ways to help my son and i move on and build our lives or i should say rebuild them.

i read some other post and i see what so many others are going thru. i can remembe being there. i found the more i got away from my ex and starting focusing on me and son the better it started to get. it has taken awhile but its alot better. i still have some fears about letting my guard down with ex, and what if he hurts son again. i saw my son get to the point he withdrew and he became depressed.

i guess in looking for ideas, im trying to make things better for son and i. i cant control ex or change him but it would really be nice if there is a way to make it easier on son and i when we do have to deal with him.

I wanted to add a post to this topic.

I was really close to my mother-in-law, I told her about his affairs. She is hurt and says she wants the best for both of us, no matter if we are together or not. She had rather us be together but I think she knows that is not going to happen. After the first affair, she was going to pay for a marriage counselor for us but he would not go.

The thing I wanted to mention is my husband's dad cheated on her several times. She said at first she stayed because she didnt believe in divorce then over the years realized she couldnt take it anymore so she left and divorced him. His dad would take other women on dates and not even tell them he had a wife or a son.

She never told my husband about this. She didnt want to talk bad about his father to him. I really wonder if she had told him would it have made a difference in the way he has behaved. He is close to his mother, alot closer than him and his father were. I just know if he had known what his father had done to his mom, maybe he would have thought twice about what he was doing. (Or maybe it would help in the future) I havent said anything to my husband because I dont feel it is my place to tell him about his father. His father treated him rather cold the last 10 years of his life. I believe my husband has alot of issues because of his dad and his actions. His dad ended up dying alone and lonely. A girlfriend (she was using him and he fell for it) got his house and all of his stuff, he didnt even leave his son anything. I dont want to see my husband turn out like this and I really fear he will.

He could use counseling but he will not go. I know it bothers him because he has said he doesnt want to do his kids like his father done him.

I guess the question after all of this is, if she had told my husband about his father do you think it would have made a difference in any of his actions concerning other women?

im kind of afraid to reply. but counseling has helped my son and i deal with alot. we werent capable in doing this on our own. what i learned was they dont need to be lied to but they dont need to know everything. it helped in learning to deal with the situation and ex. it may not be for everyone. its just a way to help work thru the situation and problems.

I can't say for sure that your H would have done anything differently. But I have to believe that your H sensed the problems in the marriage and without knowing the truth may have felt that he was creating the problem, or at least was part of it.

Dr. H advocates that children always be told the truth about their family and their parent's affair in an age-appropriate way. To hide the truth or white-wash it teaches the child that lies and deceit have a place in marriage.

Want, you are exactly right. And this is a point Dr Harley makes over and over again. He says he has never cheated on his wife because he knew the destruction caused by his grandfather's affair. He said it had a profound effect on him. Here is one of his many quotes on this subject:

TNA, I just wanted to come over here and give you a BIG HUG!! You are a dear person with a big heart and I know you mean well. I want to tell you a little bit about our strategy so you understand what we are trying to do.

That woman is hysterical because her H has abandoned her. It is very likely he is an affair. In order to save her marriage, we have to get her focused on getting the facts so we can help her kill the affair.

Once we get her focused on a clear cut strategy to save her marriage she WILL calm down. But we can't help her much unless and until she digs out the facts. You can probably see we are struggling to convince her to follow our plans. It is extremely hard to coach her on that plan when well meaning people are coaching her in a DIFFERENT direction. It causes mass confusion especially when a person is in melt down mode.

And see, she WANTS very much to chalk this up to "communication" and other minor issues. She does not want to believe he is having an affair. She can't save her marriage until she finds out EXACTLY what is going on.

I am sorry you are discouraged, but you can't go wrong if you read the articles on MB and help folks use that advice. I really do appreciate your desire to help and just wanted to come here and thank you.

{{{TNA}}} Don't be afraid to be active here. We only ask that you read the articles on this site to familiarize yourself with the concepts. They are probably very different from other sites you have visited.

Dr. Harley, the owner of this site, is a licensed clinical psychologist who has saved 1000s of marriages in his 40+ years of working with couples in crisis. He is a nuts & bolts guy who cuts to the chase, which is a refreshing departure from other sites, where people purporting to be 'experts' espouse confusing, contradictory and unnecessary comments or suggestions that may just make things worse. Going to marriage counselling to end the affair is just one of those things. That typically doesn't work. It only distracts the poster while the affair becomes more entrenched.

This site is different because there are tools here for recovery. There is a plan here for recovery. It doesn't involve delving into childhood issues or neuroses.

Keep reading - there is a wealth of information here for you! Start with the most popular links that are in the yellow box on the right of your screen.

You are welcome here!

thanks. ive never been to a site like this before. i havent done any therapy on my childhood. the only thing i have ever done was involving my marriage, it didnt work and then i started therapy to help me get thru what i went thru. my son did therapy to help him on what he went thru and how this affected him. i started learning to deal with my reactions and how to help me heal from my devistation. i learned about boundaries. this is all new to me.

I'm glad to hear that you're in a better place, TNA. Please read here - you will be amazed at the wealth of information that can help you on your journey.

@WantANewStart - I'm going through a similar situation, except I'm the BH. In our situation, my wife grew up knowing and sometimes even seeing her father cheat on her mom. She grew up seeing her mother in constant tears, but yet he would somehow always find a way to make it right.

You wondered if things could have been different if your husband knew the truth? In my case, my wife followed her dad's exact foot steps. Acknowledging that she's doing the exact same thing to me, as her father did to her mother - yet not wanting to change a thing.

"He has made comments I am not to bring anyone(another man) around child unless he knows them."

You can't bring a friend or acquaintance anywhere around him but he's allowed to have an affair, destroy your marriage then marry the ow? Who you hang out with may affect your son?!?! Wow. Talk about fog talk.

You're doing great and you sound like a wonderful Mom. My counselor, too, told me that whatever is going on in my XWH's life is none of my concern and to let him communicate with our sons while I stay out of it. My kids still don't know that their Dad married the OW last January. They've visited their father once this year for about two weeks and my X didn't mention he was married. It's hard for me not to tell them because I think one of my sons would be hurt and angry that it was being kept from him. But, again, my counselor insisted that it wasn't my place to tell them. I wonder when my X will. And it isn't just my sons who are in the dark. I don't believe they've told anyone except her parents that they're married.

Its hard sometimes to stay out when they do the kids wrong. there has been times i thought i was going to bite my tongue off. i cant believe your ex hasnt told them. i remember when my ex remarried right after we divorced, i got a certified letter in the mail from his lawyer. My son knew, he was in the wedding. I had no clue until I got the letter. I was furious at son for withholding that info and listening to his dad tell him, dont tell your mom. it just gets ugly when we get involved. you are right your child would most likely be angry with him.

im having an issue now of trying to move everything to email. He wont do it. Ive asked him to provide me where he would like the required and all i get is i will reply how i can. i got so fed up i said (this was stupid on my part) you know in the beginning you should have just said I dont love you anymore, ive met someone and want to be with her, but we have this child we have to finish parenting when needed, so i will keep it to him. I said yeah there would have been anger but it would have gone alot better than has if you would have just gone your way. he said youre probably right but i tried to make it work and you tried to make it work but we just didnt do that at the same time. funny thing i cant remember him trying. i want to scream.