"G" would be for GARBAGE. It means you throw it away.

What ideas do you have for what you want to be when you grow up? I think I want to be a lion. Hmmm, do you think they have a course on that at Uni? hehehehehe

Aha, garbage. I am a bit slow of late. You are very polite Scotty, I would not be so polite. File it under BS, FU... mmmm, whatever I come up with seems to have two letters.

And I am already a caracal... if you do grow up to be a lion, maybe we can go hunting together to bring down all of those waywards! Mwahahahahah (that is my evil laugh). Actually, lets ROAR!

On a serious note, despite the relapse, things are going well for me. I have an interesting training day at work tomorrow. I am busy researching lots of post-grad courses (since I have left it very late and applications close end of the month). Not too sure what I want to do, so maybe will do a post-grad in something quite generic, keeping my options open to go on to a masters. Still trying to figure out how to balance the budget as a student though. But it is giving me something to focus on, and I now feel ready for that.

Oh, and on my mother-daughter weekend, I bought a nice sparkly ring with my b'day money. I felt the loss of the wedding ring, the bare finger, and saw Indie's suggestions on her thread. Feels great to wear something with happy memories.

I just want to share my thoughts, which are a bit of a jumble. Since reading the wayward email, I am having a lot of thoughts that it is over. Clearly WH feels done. I know that is the fog, that emotions are variables... but I am starting to have the thoughts that maybe I am done too.

My knee-jerk reaction from the email was to march down to the Court and file for divorce myself. Lucky in Aus we have to wait the 12 months, as that feeling has now passed. Maybe this feeling of "done" will too and is just a response to the hurt. And the repulsion I now feel for WH.

I know I still have love for the man my husband was. I know I would like our marriage to recover. But even if WH died and husband returned, remorseful and committed to my conditions, I no longer know if recovery is really in my best interests.

Recovery would be very difficult and take a long time for me I think. I do not want to risk exposing myself to FR (thanks to Pep's thread, some posts were like reading a horror story, arghhhh!) I want kids, and could not have them during recovery, it would not be fair on them or the marriage. Confusing thoughts. I honestly don't know what I would say now in the unlikely event that WH committed to recovery. I really don't.

But I still hope to have the chance to be faced with that decision. So maybe that is my answer.

Caracal

I feel for you. I often feel like a pinball sometimes. Your feelings will pass, they will change constantly. That seems to be the only constant�..

Still early in this sitch, even if you get a D there is still a chance for reconciliation, it has happened before and will happen again.




The people that have kids involved in their sitches....my god.....my heart goes out to them.

But Caracal what are we trying to save here?

I don't think either of us really know.......I don't even know if I could go through with recovery, I seriously wonder where the strength will come from.......b/c I feel pretty spent as it is.

And a FR, don't get me started......talk about having a chair pulled out from beneath you, been there done that, never again.

We are young, no kids, nothing that is holding us down except we have this single long strand tethered to these toxic creatures.

What are we doing? What are we holding on to?

Are we going to wait the often mentioned two year window for them to end their affair?

I'm not, I'll let the D slide on thru, and if it stalls I'll push for it.

I'm sorry I just no longer trust that what I had with WW cannot be found in someone else who hasn't betrayed me in the worst possible way.

How do I know what I am trying to save is even worth it?

I have had one serious relationship, I don't know what else is out there.

I could end up spending all my time focusing on saving a M and a relationship that my WW could obviously care less about

and for all I know there is some girl I pass by every day at the gym day wishing I would just stop and say hi,

but I have these blinders on b/c I'm focused on WW who is totally wayward ......why?

I'm there with you, I don't know, I wish someone had all the answers.

Plan dark and time will tell, but I assure you we can't lose either way.

Caracal, since you have that one year wait, use it to your advantage and don't worry about if you would take him back or not, unless you are faced with it. Let yourself heal, and get to that 1 year mark, and then decide. Your emotions will be a lot less raw, and you will be able to make a decision with a clearer head(unless you're like me hehehehe).

Every morning, I wake up and deal with my life as it is, TODAY. So, that means that I live my life without my WH because, well, He's not here. That means that I deal with things as if he isn't. If that changes during the day(not bloody likely, HAHA), then I deal with it.

I am a planner. I have plans for everything(because I have anxiety when I don't). I have plans for how I will react if my WH were to come here, today and ask for a chance to recover. It's a plan I devised while in Plan B, and has changed a bit in the last almost 2 years(wow, I can't even believe it's been that long already).

I would suggest that you devise a plan in case your WH were to ask to reconcile, and then, you can put it to rest and deal with what you have today.

Today, I still have hope that my WH will return, but I am not living my life as if he is, I am living it as if he isn't, which this morning, he's not.

And don't worry, other than the slip, you are right where you are supposed to be. Keep it up. Don't be too hard on yourself, that's what you have us for.

Ditto.



Ditto!

I have no words of wisdom. Just that I am feeling these things too. I too have no idea if it is real/passing feelings. Hugs.

Too true finah, I will wait and see. But I really feel that the door is starting to close for WH...

My thoughts exactly. I am feeling stronger in myself, but as for having to expend more energy on WH... I doubt it. I have no doubt that pre-affair he was worth it. That I am sure of. But the hurt, pain, disgust and lack of respect I now have... He would have to be Hercules. Hahahaha.

I could not go through this at this time finah. I will not expose myself to this. I just couldn't do it. Should WH ever approach me for recovery, I will post WORD FOR WORD what he says. He will not only be accountable to me. He will have to convince the MB forum he is ready. Then, and only then, would I consider the option of recovery. And I say consider... not agree to...

Love, committment and a belief in the vows I made. I am still suprised I can answer this question so easily. That is what I am holding on to, no hesitation. Thanks for these questions, it helps to have someone ask them, because my responses sometimes suprise me.

No way for me. When the divorce paper is in hand (and I know WH will file, I somehow just know it) I am done. DONE DONE AND DONE. But I will make him file. He can live with that.
He can know when (and if) the affair comes crashing down, that he did not lift one little finger to save our marriage.

Hmmm, I think this at times too. It WOULD be easier to move on to a relationship with another. I know this. But something in me screams that this is the easy way out for me. I am not sure if this is the right reason to refuse recovery, if it was offered. I don't know. It is different for everyone. And I admit I am thinking a lot about this.

Because you have honour, committment, a belief in the vows you made, moral fibre, love... all of the things that the wayward loses.

You are right though, our wayward's are not worth it. For me, my husband and marriage was. But I am mixed because I have put up a fight, maybe not the best, but I have shown WH my love and commitment. And he has still stamped all over my heart, skipped off into LA LA land without a care in the world, and thrown any chance of earning foregiveness back in my face.

Cheers to that finah! And thanks for listening.

Scotland, you are right. I am putting a extra pressure on myself when really it makes no difference. I can not get the divorce until next year, so why bother wondering? Pointless. The planner in me too I guess, hehehehe.

Scotty, I am up to page 100 and something of your thread. Have you shared your plan to reconcile, or is this private?

I am curious in this limbo land I sort of feel I am in, just what others have devised. Especially since i am feeling an increasing alientation from the wayward.

Hi caracal! Just dropping in to say hi and glad to see you are in great hands and doing well. Don't be too hard on yourself for reading that letter. At least you can see now how far you have come and know you don't want to go back there again. Hugs to you, friend.

Melody, thanks for checking up on me. I am in great hands. MB rocks.

I hope you see this, I just want to say a huge thank you for your perseverance, patience and time in my early days. Your words and even your disengaging from my fog helped me start to see my own denial. And you came back when I started to wake up to myself and WH.

Oh, and your "lashings" to the recent foggy wayward were truly edge of seat stuff. The only reason I could keep reading the wayward rubbish really. Never change, you are needed here.

Caracal, did you spend a lot of time away from him over the years? That letter is very revealing.

All up in 11 years of marriage, two 2 week holidays to Aus to visit family, and one week holiday with a friend. He spent 3 weeks on a holiday to Aus without me. So 8 weeks total. All of the separate holidays were due to work commitments and money, not either of our preference. Returning to Aus early this year was due to me having a job to start and money pressure, was only supposed to be for a month at most.

I have wondered about this, was my 5 weeks too much IB for him, or is it just fog and blameshifting, grasping at straws? I do want to know my faults so I can learn, and move forward with either marriage or personal recovery... Would love to hear your take on it.

Of course what he wrote is history re-write, but there was some truth in it as well(the best lies have a basis in truth).

You can take a self inventory. Have you read about LBs? You can see the LBs that you were guilty of making, and figure out how to stop. You can still work on YOURSELF in Plan B, and ensure that the next relationship, be it with your WH or someone new, is based on MB principles so this doesn't happen ever again. It will also benefit you in helping other posters through the most difficult time of their lives.

I haven't really shared my recovery plan, because it is still a little fluid. I know that if my IM were to contact me and tell me that my WH would like to reconcile, I would pass on ML's email addy, so she can tell me if he is serious enough to tell him about MB. He, of course would need to agree to NC with OW, so moving out of her house, and quitting his job would need to be done, before I would even talk to him. When he is told about MB, he would need to talk to SH. He would need to agree to using MB a our plan for recovery, but these are the things he would need to do, just so I would end Plan B, and begin communications with him. After that, it would be a little bit before I would allow him to move home, and then, the hard work will begin. Of course, he would also need to agree to post here on MB. I have faith in the abilities of the posters here to take care of any foggy wayward. The online course would DEFINITELY be a part of our recovery. And I would definitely get on some ADs.

I almost feel a little silly posting about that, as it may never even happen, but it helps me to focus on today, and creating a life without my WH, because I know that I am prepared in case he wanted to reconcile. If I didn't have a plan, I would be a mess, especially if he were to try to contact me. This way, I can stick to my guns, and keep that bar HIGH.

Your WH forced you into limbo, but you took action, plan A and B, limbo for you would be plan C where you don't know what you are doing.

I remember reading one sitch........this one BH was in plan C......for 5 years I think, probably still there today, not on this board BTW.

That is true limbo.

Your WH is in limbo, how did he get there? By not making a decision, a two choice dilemma. He could of sought MC or he could of chose to D you.........he didn't do either........he made up a third choice....the A.......b/c he couldn't make the original decision.

It's how we get the " but it just happened, we were only friends "

But you and I say.......well he made a decision....he chose to have an A......but it isn't how we " see " it.

Your WH sees it as......I was lonely......I needed someone, there was no decision......it just worked out that way.

There is only one way out of limbo for him.........end the A and decide if working on the M is something you both want otherwise proceed to D..........that is the only way out.

Some people never leave that state, they still think there is some sort of decision to be made, but they fail to see that they have been making decisions all along.

Example : A sitch, true story,......WW has an A.....she accused her BH of molesting their children.......totally false and made up.....that is pure fog.......but in court.......when the divorce was set to be final.....she looked over at her BH and said to him.......don't worry we will get back together someday.

That is limbo........she still thinks there is a decision to be made........her BH is still an option to her.

Doesn't matter if there is a D or not. Some WS push a D so fast thinking it will somehow take them out of the state they are in...........it won't, the A........it has to end.

My WW.....blamed the D on me......fog talk......an hour later said.........I think we will have SF again sometime........that is limbo talk

My MIL, her affairage......to this day still gaslights her XBH........and it's been over 20 years.....she never left limbo or the fog. She is the pure definition of emotional fusion and a reflected sense of self & a host of other things.



The place where you are......that apathy you feel........isn't a bad thing, it will allow you to see more clearly and that is what is happening........which is good, but it's not limbo, it's plan B.

I have read LB's, and have revisited again thanks Scotland. I really want to change the contributions I made to where our marriage has ended up.

Sooo, I am posting my self-analysis, I really do use MB as a therapy, writing it down to others really helps...

I know I have been guilty of DJ's.

I am trying to figure out AO's. When stressed (as I was before moving back to Aus) I can be snappy with loved ones. I know this is not right. I don't get personal, but do snap with a biting comment, and I know being on the receiving end of these would not be nice. This is likely to have been what depleted WH's LB$ and led to him wanting to have an affair. It amazes me how quickly his LB$ depleted (two months) and it goes to show just how important avoiding LB's are.

The other night my mother (who is also guilty of AO's in a similar vein) got snappy at me, I snapped back, and then we both went about our business in silence... and then I thought, no, I have to try and stop this behaviour. So I went and talked with my mother, apologised and said she didn't deserve that treatment, and we compromised on what the snappiness was over in the first place, with a hug and a laugh. MB really does work. I might not get a chance to implement it in recovery, but it is good to start changing for myself.

As for WH... he definitely did the AO's and SD's. His AO's were really personal, and intimidating. He is 6"6 and having someone towering over me and ranting was not exactly pleasant. They were not frequent, more like a build up and then he would explode. Never violent. But I'll be honest... he did threaten with violence a couple of times in the last couple of years.

His SD's did annoy me. The man loved ultimatums. I suspect WH has some issues with control. He even said when back in Aus that he only gave me ultimatums when he thought I was out of control. I am not someone who is out of control. I suspect his attraction to farm ho is her age and being impressed by the older man, as this may make her more "controllable" in his eyes. In mine, more subservient. Until she matures... lets give her 10 years and see where it is then dear WH

I have to be careful though, as it is much easier to identify LB's I am on the receiving end of rather then those I have done.


Thanks for sharing that Scotty. Sounds like a really sensible one. If I ever get the opportunity from WH for recovery and decide to commit to it, I will be "borrowing" most of this. Although not as coherent as yours, I had actually come up with quite a lot of this for myself in the last month or so. Finally some progress in me! And the AD's... I would be running for the doctor!

I sort of feel silly thinking about recovery as well. But it is better to be prepared and have a plan then be gobsmacked if our WH's were to contact us and in our floundering we were exposed to a FR. Now that would be silly.

Gosh, reading that back makes my marriage sound absolutely awful. I still don't think it was, although clearly we were both in need of some MB guidance. It is good for me to see though that it was not all roses, and I see now that I had my husband on a pedestal when he was not perfect.

Thank-you Plan B, I am gaining some much-needed clarity.

OMG, that is not just limbo, that is unimaginable torture!

This is interesting for me to read finah. Some part of me still believes that husband was not that unhappy in our marriage. Not that he was at the point of considering divorce or MC. But this could be denial for me. I am really unsure. He mentioned divorce once during our marriage. This was again put as an ultimatum... if I didn't do what he wanted, he would divorce me. I reacted badly to that. Prior to D Day WH used this as the reason for wanting to seperate, and I was too shocked and foggy to know what was going on. This ultimatum was given to me over five year ago, and never raised again. So maybe it did just fester leading to the affair, or maybe it was just something WH used as an excuse as he was struggling to come up with anything else... I don't know.

And trying to decipher lies from truth becomes too taxing. I have been listening to that song "Somebody that I used to know" (it is always on the radio at the moment) and the line of "reading into every word you say" is what I did in Plan A. No more.
Pathetic but true.

Yeah, I think I get this now. The talk of me having his child, the touching and wanting SF, talking about where we would live if we reconciled, encouraging me to keep fighting for the marriage... it is all limbo.

Okay, I have dealt with that email and my relapse, I will take what I have learned and apply it, and now... filed under BS!

Thanks for helping me process.

Caracal, ahem.

This LB exercise was supposed to be about YOU. I want you to stop thinking about your WH, in any fashion.

Okay, now that I got that 2x4 outta the way, we can get down to business. What colour are your toes? HAHAHAHA j/k

My friend, even all of the LBs in the world didn't cause your WH to have an affair, that was HIS poor boundaries at allowing another woman to meet his ENs. I never intended for this look at yourself to have anything to do with blaming yourself. You don't need that.

I honestly wanted you to look at your actions, during your marriage, so you could understand what you needed to improve on in any future relationships.

Recap of

How lovebusters work.

You don't get an emotional need met as you want it met.

You make a selfish demand cause you want it met

It still isn't met, you make a disrespectful judgement to get it met

It still isn't met, you have an angry outburst.

It still isn't met, so you get angrier.

It still isn't met.

You and the person you are lovebusting with are lovebusting since the lovebusters are withdrawing love units with each other in love banks.

(It is way more complex but that is the progression)



Oh! If only we all knew LONGGGGGGG ago.

This week I heard aout a BW who has been in Plan C two years, she has lost a dangerous amount of weight, and is on a cocktail of meds. She is surrounded by people who tell her to 'just ignore him' and 'get over it'. She is constantly having her bedraggled and underweight appearance compared to the mistresses' glossy look by WH, and she veers daily from longing for him to hating his guts.

Hugs to ALL the Plan Bers who escaped this HORRENDOUS fate through a little research, an open mind and some bold moves!