|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7 |
I just don't want to make them hate their Mom. That is really up to her, not you. I don't believe you could make your children hate their mother if you tried. You also can't make them like their mother, either. Really in the end, their feelings for her are going to be primarily determined by the type of life she leads.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I just don't want to make them hate their Mom. That is really up to her, not you. I don't believe you could make your children hate their mother if you tried. You also can't make them like their mother, either. Really in the end, their feelings for her are going to be primarily determined by the type of life she leads. Amen.....
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860 |
You have some of the most knowledgeale people posting to you. It has to imply something when they are saying to do the same thing and giving you great stories to back up what they are saying.
By the way these are not made up stories but real stories that have been led and read here on MB.
Expose ASAP. Expose everyone. When WW explodes upon hearing you exposed her, tell WW if you think what you are doing is right then why should it bother you that everyone knows the truth.
Then change the subject.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 650
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 650 |
Well here's another one directed at you - in MB parlance, these are known as 2X4's. Something it is obvious that you desperately need. I didn't agree with it but love her and respect her and knew it was what she really felt she had to do so I didn't want to stand in the way. Yes, much better to just stand by while the affair continues. Doesn't require any effort beyond ignoring what's happening right in front of you. She says to me that she messed up and she was sorry. And she asked if I would take her back.... to which I replied.... I never let you go. I asked her how she wanted to handle it, did she want to do this slowly or what. When do you want to move back, I asked and she said tomorrow.
But when she came back to me, it was out of the blue and with such passion and honesty. It left no doubt that she is in love with me still. WW do this when they don�t want the cost of having to support themselves. Why live somewhere else when she can still boink your �friend� whenever she wants to while she has a place to stay and have you pay for it? and I doubt he was willing to just go away and let us work on the marriage.... not that I figured he would, but it would have been nice if he gave her the same respect I did when she left, especially since we have all been friends for so many years, but maybe it's just wishful thinking or maybe it wasn't about him, maybe she is just confused or wants both of us in her life. Are you for real? Willing to go away and let you work on the marriage?!!! The guy is screwing your wife, why would he want to stop? Out of concern for your feelings?!! C�mon guy, get your head out of your culo, wouldja? And trust me, I want to do just that but then I also hear that it's good to be patient and wait it out. She is a great woman and I don't want to loose her.... I am torn between letting her figure it out and putting my foot down Letting her figure out what? That cheating is wrong? Think she has a pretty good handle on that one. Looks like she has a pretty good handle on not fearing any adverse consequences coming from you either. Great women don't have affairs with family "friends". I agree that it would probably put a lot of pressure on her, but I am concerned about upsetting them too much. And I don't want them to hate their mother. And even though our kids are older I think it will still be a struggle and OM kids are young so it really concerns me.
I have been seeing a social worker and she said it's not good to tell the kids, and that they aren't stupid and they'll figure it out. This has got to be one of the more ignorant things that I have read here in a while. So if they can figure it out, how is it bad to tell them?!!! That make sense to anyone here? Why not tell them and get it over with? What are you teaching your boys? How to roll over and die? Fear, that's what it's all about. You're afraid. Your fear makes you a spectator in your own life. You're watching the destruction of your marriage and you...do....NOTHING. Stop thanking us for advice and start following it.
The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123 |
She moved out in order to carry on her affair. That is the ONLY REASON. Maybe it was your goal to facilitate the affair, but getting "space" did not help your marriage, it helped her AFFAIR. If she wanted some "space" she could have gone in the bathroom and shut the door. She only wanted to be able to carry on her affair unimpeded. That is the ONLY REASON she moved out. Hi MelodyLane, I felt the same way. But then she came back and it felt very sincere and honest. I was surprised she came back and even more surprised that she was right back in the affair within two weeks. Not trying to make excuses I'm just trying to think things through.
Me: 46
Wife: 44
Married 24 years
Kids: 4
PA began about 2 years ago.
D-Day: August 2011
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123 |
Hi Americajin,
Thank you for the post and for the brutal honesty.... there seems to be a lot of that going around. Which I admit it's probably exactly what I need to hear. I am just stunned by what my wife is doing. And you are right, it was stupid for me to think he would go away when she came home and give us a chance. He betrayed me once, why did I think this would be any different.
Thanks again. I didn't read these last night.... I just took a break from the posts and just really gave this all a lot of thought and prayer.
Me: 46
Wife: 44
Married 24 years
Kids: 4
PA began about 2 years ago.
D-Day: August 2011
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123 |
I am concerned about the kids, mine and his. I know I keep going back to that but it's really the big sticking point for me. Our kids know his kids and I just wonder how that is going to go over. I know she will be upset with me, I expect that. And I'm sure the OM will be too. I am not as concerned about that as I am about the kids involved. I know you will all say if I'm concerned about them then why do I keep this secret from them. Trust me, that has been on my mind well before I even saw MB. I don't like keeping this secret from my boys.
I do admit that since d-day in August I have felt I am protecting her, but all I'm really doing is protecting her secret. She even told me I am making this easy for her. She even expected a different response from me. UGH!
Me: 46
Wife: 44
Married 24 years
Kids: 4
PA began about 2 years ago.
D-Day: August 2011
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123 |
I also mentioned this yesterday, but doing this around the holidays just feels wrong to me. But I also don't think faking happiness and hiding is good either, anytime of the year!
Me: 46
Wife: 44
Married 24 years
Kids: 4
PA began about 2 years ago.
D-Day: August 2011
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,921
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,921 |
What she is doing is called manipulation. It keeps you behaving while she goes on cake eating.
It will continue as long as you allow it to.
You are responsible for how you let others treat you. You are ultimately responsible for your own misery.
So what will you choose? Will you chose to take steps to attack her affair? Or will you sit by and hope she ends it?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123 |
What she is doing is called manipulation. It keeps you behaving while she goes on cake eating.
It will continue as long as you allow it to.
You are responsible for how you let others treat you. You are ultimately responsible for your own misery.
So what will you choose? Will you chose to take steps to attack her affair? Or will you sit by and hope she ends it? You are so correct! I know this, man I'm just scared. You called me on that yesterday, I think a few folks in here did. I think this is a good approach but I am affraid of exposure. Not so worried about her getting upset, I expect that. I just don't know.... I can't seem to do it, but I gave it a lot of thought last night and just need to make a plan with emails etc since some of her family isn't in the area.
Me: 46
Wife: 44
Married 24 years
Kids: 4
PA began about 2 years ago.
D-Day: August 2011
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
She moved out in order to carry on her affair. That is the ONLY REASON. Maybe it was your goal to facilitate the affair, but getting "space" did not help your marriage, it helped her AFFAIR. If she wanted some "space" she could have gone in the bathroom and shut the door. She only wanted to be able to carry on her affair unimpeded. That is the ONLY REASON she moved out. Hi MelodyLane, I felt the same way. But then she came back and it felt very sincere and honest. I was surprised she came back and even more surprised that she was right back in the affair within two weeks. Not trying to make excuses I'm just trying to think things through. I am just emphasizing that she moved out to carry on her affair without interference. The affair never ended. It is CLASSIC. And most WW's want to move back when they find out how hard it is to live away from you. The fact that she was "sincere and honest" does not change that. Go read Surviving an Affair about Sue and Jon. Sue did the exact same thing. She moved out so she could carry on her affair without interference and was a yo yo for several weeks because she got homesick. The affair was ongoing all that time.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 123 |
I am just emphasizing that she moved out to carry on her affair without interference. The affair never ended. It is CLASSIC. And most WW's want to move back when they find out how hard it is to live away from you. The fact that she was "sincere and honest" does not change that. Thanks Mel.... and I agree! However, she did say after about two weeks of being back home that she was thinking about moving back to the room she was renting. I suggested that might not be a good idea and would probably not look good for the kids if she left us twice in two months. She thought about it and then decided to stay. I realize that doesn't mean much, if anything probably just means when she told him she moved back home he tried to talk her into moving back out, etc. Oh boy!
Me: 46
Wife: 44
Married 24 years
Kids: 4
PA began about 2 years ago.
D-Day: August 2011
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I also mentioned this yesterday, but doing this around the holidays just feels wrong to me. But I also don't think faking happiness and hiding is good either, anytime of the year! Exposing the affair at ANY TIME will always feel wrong. But feelings are not truth. And you shouldn't rely on feelings right now. Just do what is right for your marriage and family, Giraffe. What better time to take this step to save your marriage than at the holidays? That will be your greatest gift to your family. Taking a step to save their family is the greatest gift you can give them. All of your children [both families] are not made happy or secure by lies and illusions. Children can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies. Lies and infidelity are poison to their lives, but bringing it all out into the open is like chemotherapy to cancer. They need to see how a good, decent man handles such adversity. He openly addresses the sin and handles it head on. He does not help the cheaters hide their secret. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. John 3:20-21. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
[I think this is a good approach but I am affraid of exposure. We know this fear very much, my friend!! We have all experienced it before we exposed. We know it is scary. What it takes is a determined approach to walk through the fear. Courage is a decision and you have the ability to make that decision.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786 |
Do you want your wife home for Christmas? Then kill this sordid, sewer infested adultery today.
Your gut, intuition, the thing that talks to you, is telling you to tell the children. You know why it is telling you this? Because your gut, intuition, and the voice inside of you knows, this will kill the affair dead in its track.
Kill this cancer today.
Then get your four kids, get the family Christmas tree, and start making it the best darn Holiday season. Go on vacation over Thanksgiving. Every weekend gather by the tree, wrap presents, even bring out the stockings - Santa is coming this year. Go ahead act like they are small children. Make it the best time of your life. Get out all their baby pictures, child pictures, high school pictures and use them as ornaments this year. Make it all about family, and your WW can either join you or pout in the corner.
Let that wh0re of a wife of yours watch you and your children have the best darn time of your life. She can sit and wallow in her anger and pity party without you all. She did this, and she can get a mop and clean up the sewer. Who the heck cares if she is angry. She did this and only she can fix it.
You will no longer tolerate her crapping all over you, your marriage, your children, your children's children any longer.
Nuclear bomb explosure today. Your children and his children first!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 594
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 594 |
I would say something, but, honestly, I'm speechless.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,921
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,921 |
When I was in the AF, I had to jump off of the 10 meter platform. I am afraid of heights. I get weak kneed. Yes, it is ironic: I�m a former pilot who is afraid of heights.
I had to stand at the edge of the platform over the pool. I was terrified, but I had to jump off and was required to do it.
I had to conquer my fear and just do it.
That�s what you need to do.
Try to be James Bond. Pretend you�re playing a role and are now the new James Bond. How would he act? What would he do?
Use that if it helps you. I tried to emulate Mr. Spock when I was going through my mess and it helped me do the things I needed to do, though I didn�t do it often enough.
The best advice I ever got from anyone was that I needed to be ice cold and show her as little emotion as possible. Let her guess what I was up to and thinking.
I DIDN�T FOLLOW ANY OF THE ADVICE I WAS GIVEN! I ended up divorced.
If I had followed the advice I was given I may or may not have ended up divorced, but I would look back with pride instead of shame over the doormat I allowed myself to become.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357 |
But then she came back and it felt very sincere and honest. I was surprised she came back and even more surprised that she was right back in the affair within two weeks. Of course, she moved out so she could have 'space' to have her affair in peace. She moved back because she felt guilty, and she probably was trying to be sincere. But she didn't make it through the withdrawal. She's an addict, Giraffe. They can backslide back into the addiction. This isn't unusual.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
You are so correct! I know this, man I'm just scared.
Courage is what would make you special/unique.
Right now, your wife cannot admire/respect you .... you are sinking in the quicksand of your fears. Not attractive. Not a part of Plan A.It is the fear that paralyzes you, sends blood rushing through your veins, sours your stomach, and interrupts your sleep. It is the fear that gives away your power, your hope, and your forgiveness. It is fear that robs you of the active self and traps you in the role of patronizing enabler who will take them back at ANY cost...even if the price is too high. It is fear that keeps you from confronting and exposing. And fear that prevents you from enforcing your boundaries and having compassion for yourself.
Fear of abandonment.
Fear of rejection.
Fear of reaction....yours, theirs.
Fear of future...the unknown.
Fear of destitution and want.
Fear of failure.
Fear of losing.
Fear of loss.
Fear of solitude.
Fear of settling.
Fear of change.
Fear of lack of change.
Fear
Fear
Infidelity creates FEAR....and fear is crippling. Research shows us what we already know in our hearts....when we are fearful....we are unable to fire up the parts of our brains that "process" information on a logical, rational, spirtual level and create solutions that increase the odds for success in crises. When we are fearful....we don't use our neocortex....but instead, it is our limpic system which lights up our MRIs....our animal brains wired for "fight or flight".
There is no HOPE in our animal brains....because our indentity, our souls, our compassion....don't reside there. You are only capable of conflict or escape when you are there....so you must find a quiet place to deal with your fears so that you can confront, expose, do all the things that overcoming infidelity entails....all the things that happiness entails. You must value yourself as well as protect yourself, without fear of losing your WS or enforcing boundaries.....because if you don't....all your fears will be realized anyway.
MB is not designed to trap you in a marriage where your feelings are crushed and disrespected or the vows of marriage are meaningless. It's designed to help you overcome fear and give you hope that marriages CAN recover from infidelity....but you must be brave and be willing to risk losing your WS in order to regain trust, fidelity, security.
You must be willing to see beyond your pain and take logical and systematic steps to undermine the affair and increase the stability and security of your marriage. That takes courage above pain. It takes the peacefulness of knowing you are strong enough to lose a self indulgent and unrepentant spouse or recover with a flawed, but motivated one.
Don't let your fear take back a spouse who isn't ready to do the hard work recovery after infidelity entails. It is an invitation for misery.
If you don't believe you CAN survive without your WS....you cannot do what you must do to ensure success.
Stop being fearful of their threats...they are just excuses to leave or be selfish.
Stop being fearful of their reactions....their reactions arise from their guilt...not your boundaries.
Stop being fearful of taking a stand....it's the only way to gain respect or trust.
Stop being fearful of being alone.....until you can stand on your own and risk losing them, you will NEVER know if they remain with you by choice. And you will never know if you want them or you NEED them.
And if you need them....even if they return....you are in trouble chere.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 594
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 594 |
What little chance I had to save my marriage, it was greatly lessened by the actions I took before I found, MB. I was not inactive, but did not effectively end the affair. It ended a few times as far as it supposedly being over so much so that once my wife went into a sobbing depression, but I did not understand No Contact, so it always came back.
Expose.
Then No Contact (NC), between the the affair partners forever.
We haven't really gotten to that, but if that is not something you follow up with, them this is all a waste of everyone's time, yours included.
I think I can hear you now. "But, we have been friends a long time." "But, my kids know him." "But, we will run into to him at xxxxx." etc. etc.
If you don't insist on NC, then this is all futile.
Don't even try to debate this on here, you won't get anywhere.
It is one of the 3 legs.
Exposure/affair ending.
NC/withdrawal
MB program.
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
0 members (),
507
guests, and
55
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
