WW is supposed to be NC with OM. If she reacts to any news that I contacted OM without my telling her, she will be admitting she broke the NC.
Whatever that is worth...

Nice edit PB! I do wonder if I will be able to keep my comments to myself when WW does get to move out day, assuming WW finds a "friend" to help her out and doesn't just hire a mover. I thought about taking the kids somewhere so we won't have to witness it but I also kind of want to be there to take an inventory of what goes out the door.

EGG ZAK LEE

No contact by me with the OM last night. I will keep trying him though. I tried him after I got out of work yesterday but no answer. I am guessing he is screening his phone calls and didn't recognize the number. I am going to try calling from the house. He has seen that number before.

WW and I talked some about logistics with the kids and how to deal with expenses once she moves out next month. We covered alot but I came out of it feeling like crap. She wanted me to agree to all sorts of things like visitation for the kids next summer and what if scenarios. I kept repeating that I couldn't answer many of the questions because I didn't know how we were going to feel about each other by next summer or if we were even going to be talking. She asked me what I was talking about and told me I sounded like I had something up my sleeve. I told her the only thing I had up my sleeves were two arms. WW then told me that as far as she was concerned she was ready to sign papers (LS or D) and was just waiting for me, nothing had changed. I told her she was exactly right, nothing had changed and I was not signing anything.

WW has started packing and piling up boxes of things in the basement. I went to get something out of the basement and noticed a kitchen item on top of the pile. I had specifically asked for this item for christmas a couple of years ago from my dad, now she was "walking off with it". I took it back upstairs and let WW know that it had made its way into the wrong pile. She then started to flip out and say that it was hers. I told her that I wasn't going to fight about it, this was just an object and I brought it back down to the basement. Later on, WW was crying while she was folding some laundry. I calmly told her that I was sorry that things had gotten out of control over an object. This wasn't worth fighting over, it was just a thing. She then let me know that she didn't want this thing anymore and that she was thinking aobut it and my parents had never given her anything for christmas, birthday, etc. WW is totally delusional. I can list a dozen things they have given her over the years just off the top of my head. Blows my mind.

I know this sounds crude.
But, here goes ....

Are you aware of your WW's menstrual cycle timing?
Is it that time of the month? (don't ask her)

Wow, you nailed that one.

Again!

That didn't even cross my mind.

SS, has there been a formal agreement on the division of your stuff. If not, then let her know that you don't approve of her taking anything without a legal agreement. Any such things can be discussed with your lawyer, but you won't allow stuff to leave the home without papers.

Be strong on this.

No legal agreement. We both agreed that she would take things that were hers before we were married, things that were specifically gifted to her or purchased by her during the M, or if we had duplicates of things, she could take one. I think I am going to be left with a bunch of her crap that she no longer wants. I will have to make a list and then give her 30 days to decide if she is abandoning it. Then off to the dump.

Honestly, we don't have many "things" I care about. I think WW is using this as an opportunity to 1. Downsize and 2. Buy new of what she wants (yes, with her own $).

Apologies in advance if this doesn�t read clearly, believe me, this was very confusing to me.

WW and I had another discussion last night. She initiated it and I gave her multiple opportunities to drop the conversation if she felt like it was getting too heavy. WW is now starting to push to sign something (either a LS or D). Her beef is that she feels like she cannot escape me otherwise. I told her that I was not signing anything. She thinks that even once she moves out, I will be checking up on her and stalking her and will be interfering with her if she chooses to date. As far as WW is concerned, the M is dead and has been for a long time. I told her that once she moves out, I won�t have any control over her. She would have to find her way on her own. That I obviously wouldn�t want her to date anyone else but my ability to influence or stop her from living her life the way she chooses would be very limited at best. I don�t know if I screwed up here by saying that but I didn�t know what else to say. I told her that I hoped that she would take some time once she moved out to reflect on what it was she wanted in life, not just jump into the next relationship.

It appears that WW had not told OM anything about her signing a lease or that she had a start date for work. According to WW, she was in NC with OM. I am still not sure I believe that. OM emailed WW to congratulate her and she was pissed. She says she just wants to avoid all of the chaos that is going on with me, OM, and his W. For now. I still feel like she just wants a time out from everything and would like to start things up with OM at a later date if the conditions suit her. Either that or she would move on to a new OM. I am keeping in mind that these are words that are coming out of the alien�s mouth. OM learned about the start date for work and the lease signing through OMW who I told over the weekend. WW was wound up that I had again spread personal information about her around to people who had no business knowing about it. I told WW that the reason I was emailing OMW was that we were both trying to figure out what the truth was. I told WW that I had been lied to from the beginning of all of this and I was going on the assumption that the lies were continuing. She protested that argument and I followed that up with a few examples where she had recently lied to me (NC with OM and seeing him for dinner in September). I told her that when she was constantly covering her tracks and being secretive that it only led me to believe that she was continuing to lie to me and scheme behind my back.

WW last night brought up the idea that she feels that she is �inflicted� with some kind of need to hit the reset button every 4-5 years or so. She gets bored easily and constantly needs a new challenge. This is true for jobs, homes, hobbies, relationships,� I have actually brought this up to her in the past (right after D-day) and she now seems to be embracing this �condition� or whatever you want to call it. WW is a perfectionist and I have seen her take on some new task or hobby and really sink her teeth into it until she has worked out all of the bugs and has conquered it. It is perfect. At that point, she loses interest because the challenge is gone and she walks away from whatever she was working on. I brought up the fact that no matter what happens with our relationship, she won�t be able to do that with the kids. WW said that our M would be over whether OM existed or not. I talked about how I felt that the reason she could say that with such conviction was that she was still wrapped up in the A with OM. Until that A was done, our relationship would continue to be in a bad place.

I asked in an earlier post whether my exposure or snooping was a LB. I know they weren�t but I do feel like WW sees things differently. Her big gripe has always been that she doesn�t like to feel controlled. I think she views my trying to make an impact on the relationship between OM and WW by exposing the A and by snooping as me attempting to control her life. It was all a big sign of disrespect in her eyes.

I am still going along with the idea that all of this is fog-babble but wanted any opinions on all of this.

I am also questioning right now whether my plan A is being effective at all. I feel like the closer that we get to her move out date, the more WW wants to leave. Once she does move out, I am going to continue to plan A as best I can.

I also will try to contact OM again today. This will most likely get back to WW and she will flip out but so be it.

Thank you in advance for any replies and I wish everyone a happy holiday. I hope everyone can find something to be thankful for in their lives no matter what their situation is.

SS, it seems to me that your wife's main goal is to scare you off from contacting the OMW. She does this by blaming YOU for the OM's phone call when, in fact, it was HER who took his call. She wasn't pissed off at all about that. But she used it to turn it around and blame you to get you to stop speaking to her.

And secondly, EVERY wayward sees snooping as a lovebuster. EVERY WAYWARD. People who have something to hide don't like being snooped on. EVERY wayward wife whose BH interferes with her affair complains of being "controlled."

Its like this, SS. When I was a drunk driver, it was a lovebuster when my DH took my keys away from me. It doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do, though. And when I sobered up, it was not a lovebuster. It is the same with your wife. If she ever comes out from the fog, she will not resent your snooping.

You are doing great in your conversations with her. The only thing I would add is that you should make sure she understands as long as you are married you have a RIGHT to know everything she does. And ESPECIALLY if she commits adultery. Let her know if she commits adultery that you will use that in the divorce case. And make damn sure she understands that your children are not to be exposed to her adultery partners. <------tell her that, SS!!!

She is trying to set you up so you don't snoop on her to find out she is with the OM and don't use this against her in a divorce case.

Do you have access to her email and cell phone?

This is all fogbabble.

Let her know that you have no desire to control her in any way and that you'd love to feel like you can trust her, but right now you can't.

Let her know that if she is truly willing to earn your forgiveness, then she must be completely open about all her accoutns and contacts and there must be complete transperency.

Blow her mind by telling her that she needs to earn your forgiveness and that you'll have to consider whether or not to forgive her once she starts trying to earn that back.

But you did good on holding your ground on things.

Make it clear that any path towards divorce will not be pleasant and that you won't simply lie down. You will fight for custody, will sue for sole physical and legal custody, and that you will fight tooth and nail in a divorce.

Then present the alternative: I'd like to work on our marriage instead and find ways we can rebuild our marriage.

I thought about it after the conversation was over but if WW didn't want to hear from OM she could have just deleted the email without reading it. She chose to read the email.

I feel like that is a big "IF" whether WW ever comes out of this fog she is in.

I have told WW in the past that I will not allow the kids to be around OM. I will re-emphasize that the next time we chat. I do feel like that will push her D talk more. So be it.

I don't have access to her email or phone. The phone is a crappy trac phone that is probably going right in the garbage as soon as WW starts work. I don't believe there is any way of snooping on a phone of that type.

Can you put a keylogger on her laptop? And what about putting a VAR in her car?

WW and I have been talking about how to handle visitation with the kids and $ issues and I have been pushing the whole idea that WW and I may not be getting along or even talking 6 months from now. I think this is really messing with her because it doesn't really fit in with her master "plan".

I have explained things to WW like this... Her feelings about me and our relationship right now are real and valid. She is completely wrapped up in another life and there is no room in it for us. Once that other life ceases to exist, we can talk about the idea of rebuilding our relationship. Until then, I am not going anywhere and I am not signing anything. I have told her that I would not be the man that I am if I just packed up and gave up because things got difficult. I owe it to the kids, our family, to her, and most important to me to see this thing through to the end no matter what the outcome. She didn't marry someone that just shows up for the happy times.

She usually just shakes her head and throws her hands up.

Let me ask you this. Is it wrong for me to mentally consider my M dead and over, knowing that any way forward for us would really mean starting over from ground zero. What I am getting at is, would it be healthy for me to think about my life and happiness first and let the rebuilding of our M follow? Just something I was thinking about when I was staring at the ceiling this morning at 4AM.

She had the laptop admin password protected the day she took it out of the box. Almost like she wanted to hide something...

I will look into a VAR in her car. The more I think of it, that is kind of her "safe zone".

I got sick of calling OM and him not answering (OMW confirmed that he knows it is my number and is avoiding me). I just called OM and left a message. I was good, I didn't scream and holler and sound like a lunatic, I just went down my list of things that I wanted him to think about. I ended the call by telling him that I hope he enjoys his Thanksgiving tomorrow by spending time with HIS family, I will be enjoying the day spending time with MY family. We'll see where this goes. I hope WW doesn't bail out on coming to the big meal tomorrow because of this. If she does, then it is her loss. If she gives me crap about calling him and stirring it up, I am going to tell her that this is between OM and me. She doesn't need to concern herself with this.

Snark: "He's just a friend. I'm not allowed to call my friends?"

If she tells you that she heard the message you should get upset that she's snooping on you. "That was private...can't I get any privacy anymore". lol

Mr. W

I am in a bit of a crisis now. WW found a VAR in the house and went ballistic. She is seeing a lawyer this week and I am now alienated from my in-laws and some of my family. I have told people my side of the story but that has not helped. Is there anything I can say or do at this point to recover from this? I feel like this was a huge mistake. I didn't even learn anything. Any advice would be welcome at this point. Thanks.

Just keep repeating I will do whatever I have to so I can save my marriage........
Just let her cool down, don't engage in the anger.........
Don't let it stop you from snooping........
You have to know what you are against.......don't worry about others.........
Stick with it.