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Mrs Bliss,
You are absolutely correct, she is lying to me.
I gave her a list of questions, she wrote down one more detail, more oral sex, hmmm.
I handed the paper back, told her again, there will be a poly and I will leave you if you are lying. I told her to write down everything that would fail her on the poly, she went to the basement, I know I will get some, most, or even all of the truth. I will, in the end, know when we do the polygraph. Have you told your kids what she did? Do the kids know their friendships with the OM's kids are over because of her sleazy behavior?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I will, in the end, know when we do the polygraph. Don't just throw this out to her as a threat. DO IT, senn. Borrow the money if you need to. But DO IT. You can't start rebuilding until you know what you're rebuilding from.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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I will, in the end, know when we do the polygraph. Don't just throw this out to her as a threat. DO IT, senn. Borrow the money if you need to. But DO IT. You can't start rebuilding until you know what you're rebuilding from. AGree. And I would most certainly ask about OTHER AFFAIRS on your list. She needs to be tested on whether there have been other affairs. I bet there are others.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Hi Melody,
I totally agree, We have disposed of all alcohol in my house, and I vowed to never have it here again.
She is 100% responsible for doing what she did, I do not dispute that. You must agree that I played a part in this, knowing what she did in the past, knowing she crossed the line before, and still encouraged this relationship. Blind faith doesn't work. My motto has been "if she is going to cheat, worrying about it won't stop it" double BS!!!!
We are still at step one, get the truth out.
I dusted the old books off. I thought they were still in a box, but low and behold they were in the nightstand. Started Surviving an Affair today.
Me BH previous user name SEM
WW Senninpaswife previous user name Keep Smiling
Married 16 years - HS sweethearts
2 kids, Boy 15 years, Girl 13 years
WW's Affair #1,2,3,4 @ 1 year into marriage All ONS type PAs
DDay #1 09/11/01 False recovery for 10 years
WW's Affair #5 07/11 - 10/11 with my best friend EA&PA
DDay #2 11/27/11
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I totally agree, We have disposed of all alcohol in my house, and I vowed to never have it here again. Good thinking!! SEM, I will help you jump to the chase on plans for recovery. Here is an article written by Dr Harley that summarizes recovery steps and then I will follow up with a post of mine. The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.
I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.
The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.
This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.
An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.
After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.
Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details. First step is to DEMAND your spouse end all contact with the OM and his family. "Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers." Ask him/her to send a no contact letter to the OP that is written together, approved by you and mailed together. [template below from SAA] Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested: 1. end all contact with the OM for life 2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle 3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc 4. no more opposite sex friendships 5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph 6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair. Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You must really love your wife to work on your marriage once again. I cheated on my husband with his best friend. His wife was my best friend too. We had a friendship of almost 9 years. I see how much pain I have caused them both. There is no justification to being unfaithful to a spouse and this is coming from a cheater. I don't think I can ever forgive myself for what I have done. I hate how many people say "once a cheater always a cheater." I do see how many cheaters prove that phrase to be true. I pray for God to give me the strength to be the exception. I am sorry to hear your wife has cheated once again and may God give you the strength to get through this.
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Glad you see you gather yourself. Listen to Mel and Marital.
Hang in there it is a roller coaster, but you already know that!
FBH,Dad
No half measures, in anything.
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Blanca,
I do love my W very much. I am going to try to continue to come to this forum, even if I know there will be many members who will not or cannot understand why I would stay. My W is a good person, she made yet another mistake in her life, we all do, hers is a little more profound!
Melody,
I am printing that, Thanks,
Looking at your list, we actually have applied these at recovery #1 and continue to implement through the years.
We haven't gone out without each other, we have always allowed access to phone, e-mail, Facebook, etc. We have maintained the complete honesty, until this summer. We have continued through the years to try to go out on dates.
As for the kids, No we have not told them yet. I am open for advise on what exactly you all would tell them.
I have no Idea how to tell them that. It will not only turn their world upside down for them to know what their mother did, but also what they consider their uncle.
I think I would likely downplay it a bit, and tell them that the relationship between OM and W became too close, and OM's W and I no longer want any contact between them, and we are no longer continuing our friendship.
Another tid-bit, just to make my life sound that much more pathetic, I work with OM and will have to see him on Monday and every day I get to go to work. I'm sure looking forward to that!
Last edited by senninpa; 12/03/11 09:15 PM.
Me BH previous user name SEM
WW Senninpaswife previous user name Keep Smiling
Married 16 years - HS sweethearts
2 kids, Boy 15 years, Girl 13 years
WW's Affair #1,2,3,4 @ 1 year into marriage All ONS type PAs
DDay #1 09/11/01 False recovery for 10 years
WW's Affair #5 07/11 - 10/11 with my best friend EA&PA
DDay #2 11/27/11
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Hi Melody,
I totally agree, We have disposed of all alcohol in my house, and I vowed to never have it here again.
She is 100% responsible for doing what she did, I do not dispute that. You must agree that I played a part in this, knowing what she did in the past, knowing she crossed the line before, and still encouraged this relationship. Blind faith doesn't work. My motto has been "if she is going to cheat, worrying about it won't stop it" double BS!!!!
We are still at step one, get the truth out.
I dusted the old books off. I thought they were still in a box, but low and behold they were in the nightstand. Started Surviving an Affair today. Senn, can you ask her to come back here? I know she was here years ago. Will she come here and talk with us?
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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As for the kids, No we have not told them yet. I am open for advise on what exactly you all would tell them.
I have no Idea how to tell them that. It will not only turn their world upside down for them to know what their mother did, but also what they consider their uncle.
I think I would likely downplay it a bit, and tell them that the relationship between OM and W became too close, and OM's W and I no longer want any contact between them, and we are no longer continuing our friendship. I would not downplay it because that will add to the confusion. Giving kids convoluted, ridiculous explanations makes them guess, and when they are forced to guess, they always conjure up something much worse. Or often, they decide they are the cause. Go read SexyMamaBears posts on SweetPotatoe's thread. It is likely they already know something is very wrong and have begun to doubt THEMSELVES because no adult has validated those instincts. I wouldn't be surprised if your kids already know. For example, my cheater father exposed me to his affair partners and I KNEW something was very wrong with this. But since no adult validated my instincts I came to the conclusion at a very young age that I was a stupid girl. I was profoundly morally confused well into my 20's because nothing made sense. So don't downplay. Kids are not stupid. Tell them their mother committed ADULTERY with the OM and explain WHY adultery is immoral. Tell them that "Uncle Bob" did a terrible thing to you and to their family and as such, will never be welcomed in your home again. He is the enemy of their family. Tell them they can no longer be around his kids because of this. Invite them to ask any questions and tell them they can always come to you if they see something that bothers them. I would also tell your family members. Since she has had so many affairs, they should know too. You need the support of your family and the more people that know, the more people to hold her accountable. My suggestion would be to go tell your kids without forewarning your wife. Tell her afterwards so she doesn't try to butt in and pre-empt the story. Looking at your list, we actually have applied these at recovery #1 and continue to implement through the years. You did not implement them, SEM. That is why you are here again. You have a lifestyle that is completely different from those of us who have successfully affair proofed our marriages using MB concepts. Your wife does not have appropriate boundaries around men and that is Recovery 101.If she had not had opposite sex friendships and inappropriate boundaries around men, you wouldn't be here today. This started with her inappropriate friendship and was mitigated by being ALONE in the house, without you, with this man. If she were actually using MB concepts she would have never been in that position in the first place.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Also, SEM, after you tell the kids, your wife can explain to them WHY she would endanger their family by acting so recklessly with a married man. She owes them an explanation for that. Don't protect her from that opportunity.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Another tid-bit, just to make my life sound that much more pathetic, I work with OM and will have to see him on Monday and every day I get to go to work. I'm sure looking forward to that! You will be triggered every time you see that rat. Do you realize that?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yes, she will, haven't asked but I know she knows how valuable it is.
I will see if she will come on, I think she will be able to keep her old sign on as we still have that e-mail.
I did get the Q&A paper back. Just one more instance of oral sex and the real details about original oral. Nothing to get too excited about. I hope that is it, she knows I am going through with the poly and am going to start calling around. I can only prey she is being honest, as I don't want this world to come crashing down, but it will if she fails.
Me BH previous user name SEM
WW Senninpaswife previous user name Keep Smiling
Married 16 years - HS sweethearts
2 kids, Boy 15 years, Girl 13 years
WW's Affair #1,2,3,4 @ 1 year into marriage All ONS type PAs
DDay #1 09/11/01 False recovery for 10 years
WW's Affair #5 07/11 - 10/11 with my best friend EA&PA
DDay #2 11/27/11
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Blanca,
I do love my W very much. I am going to try to continue to come to this forum, even if I know there will be many members who will not or cannot understand why I would stay. My W is a good person, she made yet another mistake in her life, we all do, hers is a little more profound!
Melody,
I am printing that, Thanks,
Looking at your list, we actually have applied these at recovery #1 and continue to implement through the years.
We haven't gone out without each other, we have always allowed access to phone, e-mail, Facebook, etc. We have maintained the complete honesty, until this summer. We have continued through the years to try to go out on dates.
As for the kids, No we have not told them yet. I am open for advise on what exactly you all would tell them.
I have no Idea how to tell them that. It will not only turn their world upside down for them to know what their mother did, but also what they consider their uncle.
I think I would likely downplay it a bit, and tell them that the relationship between OM and W became too close, and OM's W and I no longer want any contact between them, and we are no longer continuing our friendship.
Another tid-bit, just to make my life sound that much more pathetic, I work with OM and will have to see him on Monday and every day I get to go to work. I'm sure looking forward to that! This is cut and dry. NC must between all family members not just OM and WW. Just as dry is that you do not lie to your kids. They can handle the truth and need the truth. Mom had an affair with the OM. If their not old enough to understand or know what an affair is tell them mom while married to you dated OM. Wives and husbands do not have boyriends/girlfriends and go on romantic dates with them when they are married.
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I gave her a list of questions, she wrote down one more detail, more oral sex, hmmm. She's still lying to you. I guarantee it. And she knows that you believe you can't afford a polygraph, so she's playing the odds that you'll buy whatever she tells you. Senn, $500 is a small price to pay to ensure the safety of your family.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Oh, yes, I moved out of Denver to get away from the triggers. I now get to work with one. What a life.
Me BH previous user name SEM
WW Senninpaswife previous user name Keep Smiling
Married 16 years - HS sweethearts
2 kids, Boy 15 years, Girl 13 years
WW's Affair #1,2,3,4 @ 1 year into marriage All ONS type PAs
DDay #1 09/11/01 False recovery for 10 years
WW's Affair #5 07/11 - 10/11 with my best friend EA&PA
DDay #2 11/27/11
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I did get the Q&A paper back. Just one more instance of oral sex and the real details about original oral. Nothing to get too excited about. I hope that is it, she knows I am going through with the poly and am going to start calling around. I can only prey she is being honest, as I don't want this world to come crashing down, but it will if she fails. Did you ask her about other affairs? See, a WS will typically give you a few crumbs at FIRST in the hopes that you will call off the polygraph. And when they see you getting closer and closer with no cancellation, they spill their guts. I would try and get the test set up as soon as you can. The story about oral only is not believable.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Oh, yes, I moved out of Denver to get away from the triggers. I now get to work with one. What a life. What is your plan to get away from him?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You did not implement them, SEM. That is why you are here again. You have a lifestyle that is completely different from those of us who have successfully affair proofed our marriages using MB concepts. Your wife does not have appropriate boundaries around men and that is Recovery 101.If she had not had opposite sex friendships and inappropriate boundaries around men, you wouldn't be here today. [/quote]
I agree, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Cannot say it enough, we lost sight and did not continue to follow all or eve most of the MB principals, but we did put in place and have had some of those in place from recovery #1. Looking back, I sure as hell would have read the books once a year, I am certain it would have prevented this.
Me BH previous user name SEM
WW Senninpaswife previous user name Keep Smiling
Married 16 years - HS sweethearts
2 kids, Boy 15 years, Girl 13 years
WW's Affair #1,2,3,4 @ 1 year into marriage All ONS type PAs
DDay #1 09/11/01 False recovery for 10 years
WW's Affair #5 07/11 - 10/11 with my best friend EA&PA
DDay #2 11/27/11
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Looking back, I sure as hell would have read the books once a year, I am certain it would have prevented this. 
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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