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I have not exposed and do not plan to. Based on what I have read in the Harley books, the MAIN reason to expose, is to kill the A. Yes, I agree, there are other reasons to expose. But, at this point I believe, based on facts, ie phone records, transparency, email, facebook, software, that there has been NC since DDay, and that's as far as I am willing to go at this time.
The best I have personally felt since my last post was when I confronted the OM. I did not confront him angrily, although I wanted to pound his face, and I thought the discussion was productive. It felt like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders by confronting him.
If not exposing is the death nail for our recovery, then just let me know, and I won't waste anymore of your time. I have made a choice, and obviously to some it is the wrong choice, but I still want and am in need of your advice and support, but if you feel like you can not still do this with me choosing not to expose, then let me know.
Things seem to be going in the right direction for us, but I still have questions and concerns. I am not perfect, if I was, I wouldn't need to be here.
BH(Me):40 WW:42 OM:44 2nd marriage, 6 kids D-Day #1 6/16/11 EA D-Day #2 6/18/11 PA reveal Married 17 years, together almost 19 5 beautiful children, 7,9,11,13,14
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I have not exposed and do not plan to. Based on what I have read in the Harley books, the MAIN reason to expose, is to kill the A. So...you're watching WW on your side. Who's watching OM on HIS side?
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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DP,
Expose, please.
My FWW now has eyes on her -- family, friends, our children -- their 'light' is now shining her, and killed off the affair.
A safeguard for all of that?
OMs side shining 'light' on his scuzball ways -- his union hall knows, his boss, his mom, nrother, two sisters...and everyone else who 'whispered down the lane', becasue, let's face it, everybody talks.
The scrutiny is a killer...
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I have not exposed and do not plan to. Based on what I have read in the Harley books, the MAIN reason to expose, is to kill the A. Yes, I agree, there are other reasons to expose. Another reason Dr. Harley gives is to prevent a recurrence. When people know about our past mistakes, they help hold us accountable. What do you believe would happen if you exposed? Are you scared of offending your spouse?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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GREAT point, Markos.
Once the trauma, destruction is made public, it lessens the risk of it happening ever again.
Thanks.
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What do you believe would happen if you exposed? The Affair would become topic #1 again. We would be gossip fodder.
Are you scared of offending your spouse? Not scared at all of offending her, she actually encouraged me to expose if that was what I wanted/needed.
BH(Me):40 WW:42 OM:44 2nd marriage, 6 kids D-Day #1 6/16/11 EA D-Day #2 6/18/11 PA reveal Married 17 years, together almost 19 5 beautiful children, 7,9,11,13,14
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What do you believe would happen if you exposed? The Affair would become topic #1 again. We would be gossip fodder. You think the OMW is going to gossip about her husband's affair?
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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What do you believe would happen if you exposed? The Affair would become topic #1 again. We would be gossip fodder. If that became a problem in my life, I would change my social circles.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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In the morning, performing your S services getting ready for work, take a good look at the guy staring back at you in the mirror while you're shaving. That's the guy who doesn't care enough for another human being in a situation identical to his to even give her a warning that her husband is a liar.
It's embarassing talking to people you know about your wife cheating on you, takes personal courage and a desire to do everything you can to recover your marriage to do so. Much easier to make excuses to anonymous strangers on an internet site, and even easier to brush it all under a rug and hope it never happens again. We usually see this attitude from the WS who naturally wants to just move on and try to make the BS forget it ever happened.
The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again.
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So, for almost two months I have been posting and asking for help and guidance. During that time I have been reading all of the MB literature that I can get and ordered the HNHN and LB home study program.
My experience when someone asks for advice, you give your opinion/advice and then it is up to the person that you give the advice to either act on that advice or not. If you feel like it, you can say "I told you so" when that person doesn't follow the advice and it turns out just as you said it would.
Almost 2 months ago I posted on this forum because I was going through the absolute worst experience of my life. Started out getting great support and empathy, but then because I would not "expose" all the support essentially went away, and the barrage of denigrating comments about my spine, being weak, not being a man, etc, etc, flowed in.
So, let's update, I have exposed to my wife's parents. I do not feel any better about doing this. My wife wishes I hadn't but understands, she doesn't hold any ill will towards me because I did.
Now, for the twist, the OM, well, he is a BS, his wife has been involved in an A for about two years. Still think I need to expose to her and let her know what a liar her husband is??????
Can't wait to hear the 'expert' opinions.
Oh yeah, still no evidence to the contrary that my wife has been completely honest and forthcoming with information about the A. No communication either.
I would like to work on R, not keep beating my head against the wall about the A. I know and she knows what previously undisclosed information or recurrence of contact would mean, there is no gray area here.
BH(Me):40 WW:42 OM:44 2nd marriage, 6 kids D-Day #1 6/16/11 EA D-Day #2 6/18/11 PA reveal Married 17 years, together almost 19 5 beautiful children, 7,9,11,13,14
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DP101,
and the barrage of denigrating comments about my spine, being weak, not being a man, etc, etc, flowed in.
Not everyone here believes in the name calling, I think it distracts from the basic issues.
The facts as they are even if stated in the most clinical of language are UGLY enough.
God Bless Gamma
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Now, for the twist, the OM, well, he is a BS, his wife has been involved in an A for about two years. Still think I need to expose to her and let her know what a liar her husband is?????? Well, I'm no expert. But I AM a survivor. And exposure DID occur in my sitch, so I know its value. I will heartily endorse ABSOLUTELY telling OMW that her H is a lying hound dog. I'm not interested in what she's doing, only that she knows. And I wouldn't believe what anyone says about her either way. I'd believe she's a cheater if I saw it with my own eyes.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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DP101 please listen: I am new here. I have been lurking and reading for a couple of months. This is my first post actually. I see so many things in your posts that i recognize in my own situation. I see someone exactly like me. Your WW and I are the same. I am a WW trying very hard to be a sucessful FWW. It is still a battle inside my head on a daily basis. I fight the feelings I still have for the OM constantly. I wish they would go away. I can honestly say that my BH's exposure to the OMW is the only thing that truly killed the affair. My OM threw me under the bus the moment his wife knew. That is what it took to truly end it. My husband had threatened him 6 months ago to stay away from his family but he didn't listen. We kept going back even though my husband knew about the affair. We just hid it alot better. Truly underground as they say. My bottom line is this: if exposure to his wife had not occured we (the OM and I) would still be deep in the affair. Period! End of story. BTW exposure to OMW was done just a month or so ago. 1st D-day was over a year ago 2nd D-day was 6 months ago or so. I was great at lieing and convincing my husband of all the things she has convinced you of but always holding back a little. i never stopped having the affair until OMW was exposed to the truth of the affair. If there were only one person to expose to it would have to be the OMW, even if you chose noone else. it doesn't matter if she is a cheater as well. My son still does not know. So I am obviously not doing everything correctly according to MB principles but my BH insists on not saying anything, you and I are alike on that point too. I have learned so much here and just wanted to share. I am trying so hard to embrace the wonderful life i can now have with my sweet DH. i am blessed and first the first time in a long time i can clearly see my future. I have been scared to post here for fear of the condemnation i might encounter so here's to you for having the guts to do it. I am a work in progress. I come here, we go to church and I listen to uplifting Christian radio. Other music sometimes reminds me of OM so I avoid that. Tell his wife. It will close off the OM to your wife in many different ways. Trust me on this. If it hadn't happened to me like that, it would be soooo very difficult to remove my heart from the affair and I still struggle with it even now. But getting better every day.
Me: BW/WW 45 Him:WH/BH 42 DS: 13 "You are more than than the choices that you've made. You are more than the sum of your past mistakes. You are more than the problems you create. You've been remade."
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Almost 2 months ago I posted on this forum because I was going through the absolute worst experience of my life. Started out getting great support and empathy, but then because I would not "expose" all the support essentially went away, and the barrage of denigrating comments about my spine, being weak, not being a man, etc, etc, flowed in. Personally, I refuse to spend any time with someone who won't expose the affair to the other betrayed spouse. It is for several reasons. Namely, because it is cruel and I won't aide and abet someone in covering up a crime. It is morally offensive to me. Helping a WS hide an affair is a despicable, offensive act of which I will take no part. It is bad for your marriage, bad for your wife and most especially bad for the OM and his wife. This is why Dr Harley is ADAMANT that the other betrayed spouse is informed of the affair. [REGARDLESS OF THE CURRENT STATE OF THE AFFAIR - EVEN IF IT IS 10 YEARS AFTER THE AFFAIR HAS ENDED] They are a victim and have a right to know. Sure, it might be unpleasant, uncomfortable for you, but from my perspective, their right and need to know supercedes your temporary discomfort. It might be uncomfortable for me to warn my neighbor that his bookkeeper is embezzling his money, but that does not negate my moral obligation to tell him. So, let's update, I have exposed to my wife's parents. I do not feel any better about doing this. My wife wishes I hadn't but understands, she doesn't hold any ill will towards me because I did. She won't feel this way after the fog wears off. Her residual resentment is a result of the fog. When the fog wears off, she will appreciate that you did this. Now, for the twist, the OM, well, he is a BS, his wife has been involved in an A for about two years. Still think I need to expose to her and let her know what a liar her husband is?????? Of course. Two wrongs don't make a right. Your wife still has an obligation to clean up her side of the street. What the OMW has or hasn't done is irrelevant. It doesn't entitle your wife and her creepy husband to victimize her. I don't know if its true or not that she is cheating, but I view that information as absolutely irrelevant. This is still information about her own life that she has a right to know. Her wrong does not right your wife's wrong. There is no excuse for not informing a BS of an affair. None at all. Show me a WS who has not made sure both BS' know and I will show you an utterly unrepentant wayward spouse. End of story. I would like to work on R, not keep beating my head against the wall about the A. I know and she knows what previously undisclosed information or recurrence of contact would mean, there is no gray area here. I agree you should work on the marriage. But doing the right thing and exposing to your wife's other victim is part and parcel of recovery. Folks really do want to help you, DP101, but it is wrong not to expose to the OM's wife. It is bad for all concerned. And it is deeply offensive to many people.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Are you scared of offending your spouse? Not scared at all of offending her, she actually encouraged me to expose if that was what I wanted/needed. It is what SHE needs. She needs you to do this for her recovery. True repentence means making amends to your victim. She has not done that. Can I claim to be truly remorseful and repentant if I won't even confess my crime to my victim? No, I cannot. In this situation, your wife makes amends by having you tell the victim on her behalf. If she were truly remorseful, she would make sure that happens. SHE needs it as much as the OMW. It is for her recovery.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I just feel like I would be hurting my wife more than she already is, by outing her to her family, my family and friends. I see the pain that she is in now, I don't want her to hurt more, to me that is counterproductive to Love Units being put in the Love Bank.. That is not what the MB lovebank model is about. The lovebank is not based on lies. Where did you read on here that honesty is a love buster? You tell the truth, but without the lovebusters of AOs or DJs. A critical part of the MB programme is honesty. This is what you say to your wife by lying to others: 'You are so disgusting that I have to lie about you. I have to keep your filthy secret a lie. Watch me lie to others and feel bad very time I do it. I clearly dont think you have it in you to be sincerely repentant and honest with others about your actions'. This is what you should be saying: 'I hate your actions (the sin) but I love you (the sinner). I no longer think of you as a liar. I think you are brave enough to face others with the truth. I think you are sincere and repentant enough to do this. I think you will take all well earned criticism on the chin. I think you will feel shame, and that this is a good thing, because your conscience has returned to you. I will be so proud of you when you face the consequences of your actions unflinchingly and without excuses. I think you now find lying and hiding the truth to be wrong and that you will tell all truths frankly, ESPECIALLY unpleasant truths, to all the people you love.' She is in pain because she is still living a lie. Help her out of it. Both of you need a fresh, frank, honest start. I exposed my WH. He isnt even repentant and people who love him are still rooting for him. They tell him they support his marriage, they tell him he must turn his life around. Nobody has stoned him yet, and he is still seeing the OP. His family love him, they just hate the sin.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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because I would not "expose" all the support essentially went away, and the barrage of denigrating comments about my spine, being weak, not being a man, etc, etc, flowed in. . I would not say that. We have all been there. Before you expose it seems like such a daunting, terrible thing to do. I was certain it would be terrible, gossipy, vindictive. I even anticipated violence. Then you do it and it isnt bad at all. It is actually quite wonderful and supportive. You are on the diving board being told to jump in and you are afraid the water is too shallow or too cold. There is no way for you to know without doing it. However we are in the water and we are just telling you it things are fine, that's all. You are here for MB advice. Exposure is a key part of MB advice. Dr H says his plan doesnt work if you skip parts, any part. Particularly exposure. We have been charged by the forum rules to impart Dr H's advice, and how we found the experience to be in our own lives. So you should not be surprised about that.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Now, for the twist, the OM, well, he is a BS, his wife has been involved in an A for about two years. Still think I need to expose to her and let her know what a liar her husband is?????? I would be very interested to hear how you got this information without talking to OMW. If it comes from gossip, then its unsubstantiated and prob spread by her cheating husband to prevent anyone telling on him. (mine did something similar) If it comes from your WW, then the likelihood of it being untrue becomes even higher. Theres no way a POSOM tells a married woman he is trying to get in the sack the truth about his wife. Contacting her will give you an ally and another pair of eyes making sure they stay apart. It will also prob bust open the truth about his lies to your w. It would be good for your w to hear about how much he lied to her too, to show her how much of a scumbag he is. You need all the information you can get.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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foreversunshine, please start your own thread on Surviving an Affair. We'd like to get to know you and help you on your healing from your affair.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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So, today is the 6 month anniversay of DDay #1. Wasn't sure how I was going to feel about this day, well the day sucks. My wife is oblivious, she doesn't remember dates, phone numbers, etc, so unless I bring it up, she won't even realize it. I am not going to bring up the significance of this day, no sense in throwing it in her face.
A lot of what I have read says not to make any decisions for 6 months after revelation of an affair, well we are at that point. Since my last post, my wife has stopped doing any of the Marriage Builders work, she has stopped doing the Marriage Encounter work. She still tells me that she loves me, but is not in love with me. I told her the other night that I don't think that she loves me, maybe cares for me, but does not love me, or she would be doing her part to save our marriage, to stop the pain.
She insists that she loves me, but that she feels so bad about herself and what she has done, that she can't feel close to me. She says that she has moments where she feels good about us, and then the cloud of the affair steals the good feelings. She says that I deserve better, I agree with her, but tell her that I want it to be better with her.
She has continued with full disclosure of emails, phone records, etc. I do not feel that she is keeping any secrets from me, I always get answers to my questions, and they are not always feel good answers.
Our sex life is horrible, I have to ask, and then when she does say yes, she doesn't even participate, just lays there, won't kiss me back, etc. I only get physical satisfaction from this, not emotional, but I keep asking because I think maybe this will be the time that she makes love to me. She says that it makes her feel a little better because she knows that SF is one of my top EMs. But, it rips my heart out, knowing that she was able to kiss 'him' and she can't kiss me, knowing that she was passionate with 'him' and can't or won't be passionate with me.
I have continued to be the 'good' husband, I even ask on a regular basis whether I am doing the right things and if there is anything else I can do. She tells me that she doesn't deserve my efforts, I tell her it is not for her to decide what she deserves from me, it is what I want to give. She asked me about a month ago if I would not make any decisions until after Christmas. She said that she had a surprise for me, and that I would have no pain after Christmas. Of course, I am thinking, "Why does it have to wait for Christmas, whatever you are planning, why would you want me to continue hurting any longer?" I have tried my best since this request to be "normal". I have this horrible feeling that Christmas is going to come and then go, and nothing will have changed.
I guess mentally, I have been preparing myself for a separation. I am going to try to give her the best Christmas that she has ever had, and then, if nothing changes, it will be me that moves out, initially I will move out of our bedroom, and then look for an apartment or house. I don't know what else to do.
BH(Me):40 WW:42 OM:44 2nd marriage, 6 kids D-Day #1 6/16/11 EA D-Day #2 6/18/11 PA reveal Married 17 years, together almost 19 5 beautiful children, 7,9,11,13,14
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