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I don't want to take this off topic, but I guess I should apologize for reading quickly and not fully seeing the situation. Prisca, MelodyLane, and all other on this thread I'm truly sorry that I missed the part were she said they had 0 UA time. I freely admitted this in the text that both of you quoted, and this was the key that I was looking for in my first post that got deleted. I agree that without this she will not want sex and will not be in love with him.


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My husband takes care of the children and I work 50-60 hours a week.


Since no one else asked, I thought I should � why does your husband stay home with the kids?

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My husband is an excellent Father and does a wonderful job caring for the children. Our relationship is good-we are good partners and parents, but struggle with the lack of sex/intimacy. No, I do not desire my husband sexually.


Since no one else asked, I thought I should � if your relationship is good, then why don�t you desire your husband and why would you want to divorce him? Divorce because he asks for sex?

Is it that you don�t want to have sex with your husband or you just don�t want to have sex � period? Has the fact that you work so many hours while your husband is at home caused you to lose respect for him as a man? Is this the root cause of why you don�t want to have sex with him?


The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again.
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Prisca & MelodyLane � Thank you so much for support & reaffirming the UA/wanting to have sex thing that has me stuck. Also for the encouragement and the link to the Sexual Aversion article. The letter and the SA article were written just for me, I think! This program is so thorough, it seems to cover everything. Thank you as well for your comment reassuring my husband. I will ask if he would like to post here. I have sent him the link so he can read this thread.


MrNiceGuy � Thank you for your welcome and for sharing your story. What you described, I believe is exactly the negative loop we find ourselves in. Thanks also for the reminder that my sexual rejection is painful for my husband. I know that it may seem obvious, but with our very busy lives it has been very easy for me to overlook the obvious.


LifetimeLearner � Thank you for your response. My apologies, I was confused about Plan A when I started this thread. I cannot, in fact do Plan A as I cannot meet his needs for sex at this time. I also would not want to have sex with him after a 3 or 4 hour date. I believe after all the reading on this site and the advice from MelodyLane & Prisca that my reluctance is due to lack of UA time (and therefore Romantic Love).


American Jin � To answer your questions:

I work and my husband is at home because I am the one with the high-paying job, so it just makes sense.

Yes, I was going to leave because I couldn�t take the pressure & stress from the constant requests for sex. My husband is also incredulous that I would do this. I don�t know what to tell you other than that is how I feel.

I did say our relationship was good-I meant overall as in good parents and we don�t fight. Our relationship is not intimate or fulfilling for either of us-it feels distant & disconnected. Sorry for the confusion with my wording.

I don�t want to have sex with my husband and I certainly do not want to have sex with anyone else.

I have great respect for a man (or woman) who is at home nurturing 2 teenagers, 2 rambunctious little boys, twin infants and a deaf toddler. So no respect issues there.

Hope I answered every-one�s questions.

Thanks


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I believe I have made a great error in judgment though. I assumed he felt as disengaged and disconnected as I do. I realize now he does not. I believe he still loves me and I hurt him very badly when I told him in the e-mail I was going to leave. Not sure how to fix this mess now. Keep plugging for MarriageBuilders I guess.


H is still very upset with me and cool enough in his manner towards me that the children noticed. I don�t like this at all as he is never like this with me (or anyone else).

The whole situation is stressful & overwhelming right now.

So-my plan for today:

At lunch shop for �journal for the Sexual Aversion exercises
outfit for when H takes me on a date (positive thinking here)

Print out EN & LB questionnaires

Fill out mine tonight

Try to engage H tonight in discussion about MarriageBuilders

Do the first Sexual Aversion exercise



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Those are a great start Raging! I am glad you related well with several of the links that were posted to you! MB is an amzing tool.

I believe over time with love and patience you will turn this around. Keep love busters in check... and learn each other all over again. IF both of you work the program and get in your UA time, within a few weeks you will notice a HUGE difference.

Keep posting ... venting ... and asking questions.

MNG


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Thanks MrNiceGuy!

I have a question for you.
Did your wife do the Sexual Aversion exercises?
If so how long did it take her to get through all of them?
The final exercises seem scary and overwhelming to me!

Thanks


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I'm not MrNiceGuy, but I'll mention that my wife has never had to do sexual aversion exercises. All she needed was a restoration of our romantic relationship. If we had restored the relationship, and she found herself in love, and she still felt averse to sex, then I think we would've needed to try that.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Thanks Marcus-that is a good point. I assumed after I read the Sexual Aversion article I would need to do the exercises as the article really rang true for me. Plus right now, I am so stressed/antsy - I need something I can actualy do (until H gets on board).

Thanks


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Originally Posted by Raging_Calm
Thanks Marcus-that is a good point. I assumed after I read the Sexual Aversion article I would need to do the exercises as the article really rang true for me. Plus right now, I am so stressed/antsy - I need something I can actualy do (until H gets on board).

Thanks

RC, has your husband calmed down? Will he come here and let us help him?

I agree with Markos' point and want to add that I think it will take more to recover your marriage because you are at the point where you want a divorce. Restoring the love in your marriage is part of it, but you need the added help of Dr Harley's suggestions in that article. This CAN be turned around.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I believe I have made a great error in judgment though. I assumed he felt as disengaged and disconnected as I do. I realize now he does not. I believe he still loves me and I hurt him very badly when I told him in the e-mail I was going to leave. Not sure how to fix this mess now. Keep plugging for MarriageBuilders I guess.


Raging_calm, do you really understand what sex means to a man? It's not a facetious question, because I've known a lot of women that have no clue at all about what men feel about sex. You'll hear a lot about how women need to be emotionally involved, that their emotional needs must be met first in order to have sex. If a woman's emotional needs are being met, she can often experience love quite well without having sex, men cannot.

For men, sex is one stop shopping. Sex is several emotional needs all wrapped up in one happy package. Men get the emotional connection FROM sex, not as a prelude to it. By having sex with her husband a woman is saying through her actions that she loves and accepts him. If you continually reject a man, then what you are saying in essence is that I don't love and accept you as a man and as my partner. You may think that by vocalizing these things that he accepts that you do love him, and you'd be wrong. I know that women find it incredulous when they're told that a man equates sex with love, I mean how stupid is that?!! Because for women love is separate from sex.

Funny that it is often women who say that it is the other way around, that it is men who separate love from sex. Not true. The difference is if the man is in a committed relationship or not. Men who are not in a committed relationship can have sex because it is fun and it feels great, although, yes, there is that elemnt of acceptance. Only the truly promiscuous have sex with people just for the sex act itself. Most men don't want to have sex with a promiscuous woman because they know they don't mean anything to her, there's no acceptance, no feeling. You're basically a flesh and blood dildo with a life support system attached. Strange words from a guy, right?

But women can be in a committed relationship and not really need to have sex at all. I'll bet that you have felt that you would have a great marriage, bordering on ideal, if your husband would just stop this annoying insistence on having sex. Everything is perfect, you have kids, you help each other out as partners, you talk and share times (although not anywhere enough) together, why can't he just be happy with his family and a wife who loves him? Why can't he SEE THAT WE ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH KIDS AND I'M TIRED AND I DON'T WANT TO HAVE SEX ANYMORE, JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!

Now see it from his perspective.

I have a wife who makes more money than I could so she works and I stay home. I'm ok with that as long as I feel that she still respects me as a man and loves me. So I do what I can in the house and with the kids, I feel strange in this position but i want to be a team player and if she's ok with the arangement than I can suck it up and deal with it too.

I try to have as much conversation with my wife because I now understand what housewives feel about having no adult conversation all day long. I try to be a good husband and father, and I guess she thinks that I am. She doesn't lord it over me that I don't work, but sometimes I get that look like why couldn't I be with a man that makes more so I could stay at home, the way it should be. So I try to get reinforcement that my wife still has it for me by initiating romance.

But she ain't having it, cause she's tired and just wants me to leave her alone. I know she's tired but so am I, probably both of us feel a lot better afterward, but the answer's no.
Just like it was the day before and the week before that. What am I doing wrong? I know, I'll try harder to do a better job in the house, talk to her more, and maybe give my world famous back rub, see what happens. Damn, still no. So maybe if I back off for a while, stop asking, let things cool off so she feels I'm not pressuring her. Nope, she looks happier because I ain't asking, but I get the feeling it could be decades if she ever wants to touch me again. She tells me that when I touch her that it only means I want sex, that's why she doesn't want to touch me at all. I can't help it if I get hard, after weeks without sex I get hard if the wind blows. Once a month, if I'm lucky, and then it's a big sacrifice on her part and she let's me know that, like giving the dog a bone. I'm tired of masturbating, even if they do call it sex with someone who you know loves you.

What else can I do? Maybe it's not a lack of trying on my part, maybe she just doesn't love me the same anymore. Holy cow, she wants to divorce me because I want to have sex? That she feels pressured? WTF does she think I feel?!! I should be the one considering divorce, I've put up with this for this long because I love her and my kids and don't want to lose them and she wants to dump me? Well, screw this, why even bother trying anymore? My feelings don't seem to count much, well I can play that game too.


And it's all downhill from there

Quote
outfit for when H takes me on a date (positive thinking here)


raging_calm, at the present time, do you really think your husband wants to go on a date with you? You just sent him a letter telling him you were leaving him because you were tired of him asking for sex. And you're stressed because he's not taking it all that well. Well, duh....

You want to reach out to your husband? Stay tuned for the next episode.


The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again.
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MelodyLane-thanks, yes I agree I do need to do the Sexual Aversion exercises. I plan on doing the first of them tonight.
No, my husband has not calmed down yet-he is still very upset with me. I am hoping by tonight he will have come around some so that we can engae in some discussion about this program.

Thanks


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americajin,

Originally Posted by americajin
Raging_calm, do you really understand what sex means to a man?

Originally Posted by Raging_Calm
MelodyLane-thanks, yes I agree I do need to do the Sexual Aversion exercises. I plan on doing the first of them tonight.

It certainly sounds like she's willing to meet her husband's emotional need for sexual fulfillment, at least under appropriate conditions.

I don't think there's any need to try to educate her about how important it is. I've not seen a single post suggesting that she does not believe that sexual fulfillment is important.

Dr. Harley recommends trying the simplest solutions first.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=68

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley, partial radio transcript
There is something about romantic love that creates a special incentive to do the things that the other person needs. So a man and a woman that are in love with each other romantically -- which this person doesn't seem to value (not yet, we hope he'll get there, yes) -- if they're in love with each other romantically, your emotions kick in and encourage you to do things that you might not need yourself.

Woman become far more sexually oriented when they are in love. They are more interested in helping them out domestically; they are more interested in looking better for him. They are more interested in going to football games along with him and participating in his recreational activities.

And men, when they're in love, they're more interested in talking to her for hours at a time, to being affectionate with her; they are interested in being more honest and open. In other words, they are more interested in meeting each other's needs when they're in love.

So, the point of my seminars, and the books that I write, says, look: being in love is a big deal. It'll make your relationship really move along, and be very, very, very good for you, and all of his "utility needs" end up being met in a relationship where there is mutual love


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Raging_Calm
Thanks Marcus-that is a good point. I assumed after I read the Sexual Aversion article I would need to do the exercises as the article really rang true for me. Plus right now, I am so stressed/antsy - I need something I can actualy do (until H gets on board).

Thanks

RC, has your husband calmed down? Will he come here and let us help him?

This is a good question. It can be very helpful to get him on board here.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Mr Husband of Raging_Calm,

Howdy, sorry you have to be here. Bet you feel really bewidered and probably really pissed off right now. But that's ok. You and your wife can fix this, in fact it's already started.

Somehow in the years you've been married your wife has come to associate having sex/making love with you with unpleasantness. Which is being reinforced every time you approach her for sex. Don't know why and probably would have a hard time understanding it anyway as I am a guy. You can sit there and wonder why and get absolutely nowhere, just know that it happened and it was serious enough for her to consider leaving you. Which just flabbergasted you, yes?

Good news is she's willing to do something about it. She's done some reading here, actually just scratched the surface, but she's willing to try some things to maybe change the way she's thought about intimacy with you. The key thing is she's willing to try.

As a guy I know what you're feeling. But you do love her, yes, and you don't want that to change. So if you can back off from asking for sex until she's had time to work through some things, and then work with her, perhaps having to do some things that you'll probably be really skeptical of, maybe you both come out winners in the end. Can't get much worse than it is now, right? Have some faith and trust in this program, Mr Husband, even if it sounds counterintuitive at first, cause it works.

If you do decide to post here, stay off your wife's thread and she'll stay off of yours. You're going to have some back and forth that may be painful but you can't make an omelet without cracking some eggs, right? Can't remake your marriage unless you break out of the cage you've both put yourselves in. We'll help you out, but it would probably be better if you just go directly to contacting the Harley's.

Best of luck to the both of you.

Stick it out. The price is well worth it.


The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again.
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It certainly sounds like she's willing to meet her husband's emotional need for sexual fulfillment, at least under appropriate conditions.

I don't think there's any need to try to educate her about how important it is. I've not seen a single post suggesting that she does not believe that sexual fulfillment is important.


I don't know, Markos, are we reading the same thread? She just sent her husband a letter saying she was leaving because he wants to have sex and won't stop asking. I don't know if she has a sexual aversion or not, there ARE people who just feel that sex is not important to them and don't miss it if they don't have it. Just like there ARE women who come here and are surprised to find that sex IS an emotional need, just like I scoffed at financial support being an emotional need when I first came to this site. Until I actually looked at it from a woman's perspective and saw that it made sense.

But sexual aversion or not is not my call as I am not a licensed professional.

And as far as wanting to meet her husband's emotional need, she really hasn't said that, has she? I guess we'll just have to wait and see and encourage her to follow the program.


The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again.
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Originally Posted by americajin
I don't know, Markos, are we reading the same thread? She just sent her husband a letter saying she was leaving because he wants to have sex and won't stop asking.

Apparently we are not reading the same thread, no. My understanding was she sent him a letter explaining what he can do to get her interested in having sex with him.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by americajin
And as far as wanting to meet her husband's emotional need, she really hasn't said that, has she? I guess we'll just have to wait and see and encourage her to follow the program.

Yes, she certainly has expressed a willingness to make changes in her marriage that will make her willing to meet her husband's need for sex. She certainly sounds like she's planning to follow the program, to me.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by americajin
I don't know if she has a sexual aversion or not, there ARE people who just feel that sex is not important to them and don't miss it if they don't have it. Just like there ARE women who come here and are surprised to find that sex IS an emotional need, just like I scoffed at financial support being an emotional need when I first came to this site.

All of that was handled on this thread quite a bit earlier, wasn't it?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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americajin - thank you for your long and thoughtful post. Some of it was hard to read.
However, you are right. I don't get it. I don't have a clue. When it comes to sex and what it means to a man. Thank you for educating me. I am reading as much as I cam from this site, but as you say, I am only just scratching the surface.

You are also probably right that my husband will not want to go on a date with me-he is still angry with me.

I went and bought a new outfit anyway though. Not because I wanted it or to make myself feel better, but because he has stated in the past that he would like to see me in something other than business suits and sweats.

I also got my journal and will begin the Sexual Aversion exercises tonight.

I don't know what else I can do.

Thanks


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