Well, not AGG but remember PI this poster is not married. POJA doesn't apply in this situation.

Discovering fundalmental differences that might make a relationship unhappy or impossible is part of the dating process and it is how you weed out the wrong ones.

Yw. And keep coming here if you feel weak.

Good job deleting his vm!

That is a very sweet story kay, I am so happy for your son! And milkshake, there is another very valuable point in kay's story that bears repeating - when you meet "THE ONE", you'll know it, it is head and shoulders above the "maybes". You never question it, you never doubt, you just know it. It's like hitting a home run after a bunch of infield singles.

So THAT is your best sign that your XBF is not the ONE. You don't feel that way about him and he does not feel that way about you. If you try to make it work with him, you are guaranteed to be settling for the infield singles instead of the home run. Don't do that. When you find THE ONE, you will not believe that you wasted so much time with the wrong guy.

AGG

Sure, as SmilingWoman already said, there is a difference between what you do for your spouse and what you do when dating, i.e. "shopping". It's like when you go looking for a house to buy - you look for the house that suits you best. AFTER you buy it, you will clean it, maintain it, fix it up if you want, etc. But until then, you don't hear a realtor asking you to clean up a messy house that he is showing you, or to build an addition to a house that's too small - you keep looking till you find the one that suits you, THEN you take care of it .

Thanks SW and AGG -- I didn't realize there was a difference in dating the one and marrying the one.

The whole thing about "you know when you met the right one", that is actually what makes me very nervous and also discourages me. I never, I Repeat, NEVER had such experience.

On the other hand, my XH said he knew I was the one, but look what happened. My XBF said the same thing, he said he waited all these years to meet me, the best ever. Then this... I don't know, but I tend to think even though you should shop around to make sure what you are getting is close to your ideal, since nothing is perfect, you need to take certain things as is.

Otherwise, what do I make out of the whole things? I am such a horrible person that all theses guys who thought I was the one changed their mind?

PrayIn, I don't know your sitch well, but know you are hurting too. Well with your husband and the father of your children, it't even harder. I feel pretty powerless right now, but I am sure all of these wise and experienced people can give you useful advice. Hugs.

Milkshake, I think you're looking at this in a very troublesome way.

First, regarding this XBF's email. I personally thought it showed a lack of maturity on his part. He dangled just enough emotion out there to get you going over "what if's" again. That was selfish.

Also, please note that when he mentioned love it was in the context of loving you and your son, almost as if it was the same kind of love.

And finally, I hate the "you never loved me enough" argument.


You really, really need to read the book Will Our Love Last? In it, the author talks about validation and the initial phases of love. It's really easy in the beginning to think "This is The ONE!" Because you haven't seen all aspects of that person. You've only seen the best case scenario. Over a year or two, you see all aspects of the person, and you may find things which make you change your mind. This is probably what happened with the men who broke up with you.

I will say that when I decided that Mike was someone I wanted to marry and felt safe marrying, it was a very unique feeling. It wasn't ever the Whamm! struck-by-lightening feeling. For me, it was slower and steadier. I think it was when I realized Mike was my rock.

Ditto

I'm still following your story MS but I'm reading what everyone has to say as I have nothing to help you.

I have a question about this. If you go out with someone just to be going out with someone, isn't that a bit unfair to the person if you don't have an interest in them? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong??? It feels like using someone to me. Plus you risk falling for the WRONG person too. Maybe I'm complicating things. *sigh*

Not at all, as long as you are honest with them about it. If you are upfront about going out just to meet people and chat, there is nothing wrong with that. Just don't portray yourself as being ready for a relationship. If you do that, you are not using anyone.

As for risking falling for the wrong person, I think the more you go out on onesy twosie dates, the better you are prepared to screen out the bad ones. If you only go out to "get involved", then you are a worse screener than if you have gone out with many people more casually. Don't ask me how I know.

AGG

double post

No matter whether you are looking for a serious relationship right this instant or not, I think everyone should go out with the initial intent of getting to know someone and enjoy their company. Else, how do you know whether you want to be in a relationship or not?

I wouldn't go out with someone I disliked or found physically repulsive or knew I wouldn't ever be friends with.

And let's think about what a relationship really is. A voluntary relationship outside of work is formed because two people enjoy similar activities, or enjoy each other's conversation. Even in an exclusive romantic relationship, this is still true, there are just other benefits, like enjoying each other physically to one degree or another.

PS: You can also make sure you're not using the other person by making the time spent together as enjoyable as possible.

How do you know you aren't interested if you haven't given them the chance of one date? Note, I DID say "nice", I don't think you should go out with people who obviously are not nice. It takes TIME to get to know someone, meanwhile, you can enjoy each other's company. How is that unfair? Once you KNOW it's not going anywhere, of course don't continue. Be honest!

GG, my friend said he felt that what XBF was saying in the email is that "well these are the things that were missing in our relationship and only if YOU (= me) make changes, I may consider, maybe". Is that what you saw and referring to in the first part?

On the second part, I didn't realize it, but now you mentioned, yes, I see that, it's almost like he loves me the same way he loves DS. Which is possibly true, even though we always had greatest sex and he was very attracted to me physically, the overall love he had towards me might have been more like 'family' type love and not one that of couple's. DS and I might have become a 'family' to him.

On the third part - can you elaborate on that? My confession, this is my weak point and I always felt guilty about this for my XH and XBF.

With XH, we were so young when we got married, fresh out of college. We had many similarities however we were too young to care for each other and I think we were just too selfish. I was always studying because I wanted to go to good graduate school while XH wanted to watch movies with me at night. Once I was accepted, I was always working and studying. But I was physically there at home, and on Friday and Saturday nights, we did go out often. But I also spent a lot of time studying. He resented that. I took an international assignment (but XH told me to take the chance, he was supposed to follow me and live overseas together for 2 years). I waited for XH but he could never get transferred, so after one year I quit and came back. He resented that tremendously, and said I told him �Fxxx XH, career is more important than XH�, which of course I never said and I was crying when I had to make the decision because I did not want to separate from XH, and XH told me �take is Milkshake, otherwise you will regret. Our love is so strong that a little separation will NEVER break us apart� That�s what he told me, and that�s why I decided to take the overseas position. While I was overseas, I came visit him twice, and he came to visit me once. Each time we spent about 2 weeks. We also called each other every day and emailed to each other several times a day. But it turned out he was having an online affair while I was overseas, which I had no idea about. I came back but he felt that he was not loved enough by me. Once DS was born, he felt even more that he was not important. He was gone every weekend doing drugs and chasing other women (and ended up getting arrested), which he said was my fault because I made him feel not loved.

With XBF. I showed lots of affection, I didn�t go anywhere during the weekend, I always kept my schedule open for him. He is the one who was always gone. The first year was tough for me, I did express my desire to be able to spend more time together, but he said �if you love me, and I am so passionate about golfing, then you should be happy about it and support it�. So I never ever complained about it since. I let him go every weekend. DS likes other sports, but because XBF wanted DS to do golfing, I signed him up for classes, and we played together too. I always told XBF BEFORE I even purchased tickets that we are going home (overseas). I wanted him to come, but he could never take enough days off to go all the way to the other side of the globe so DS and I went home alone every year. XBF felt that he was not loved because I did not make it work so that he could come with us. But tickets are so expensive that it did not make sense to go just for a few days. And I never get to see my own family because they do not live here. Anyway, he felt that was a sign I did not love him enough. I took XBF to Cirque du Soleil and several other ballet shows (I am a dancer myself so I love these shows). He always ended up falling asleep during the show. Every single time. So I took that as a lack of interest. So I would not force him to see the show. One year my parents came to visit us. It happened that Cirque was in town so I decided to buy tickets as gifts and take them. As you know, tickets for Cirque are very expensive. I paid for my parents and DS and myself, 4 of them for a week night since it was slightly cheaper on weeknight. XBF NEVER came to our house on week night. He only came on Saturday evening, and stayed only for one night. The show took place just by my house. I wanted XBF to come but he is not interested in, for that, ticket is way too expensive for someone who is going to just sleep. And it was on a week night. So I did not even think it was a big deal to just to go with my parents. XBF felt that it was a sign I did not care about him. I took a half day to take DS to Six Flags on one Friday, XBF said �you do anything for DS, but you wouldn�t do that for me�.

Even though none of them was intentional nor on my part a lack of love but they felt that I did not love them enough. And somehow I feel very guilty, these remarks make me feel like I am such a cold hearted person. I hate feeling bad about myself but I do feel so low and less confident about my ability to love someone when I hear these complaints.

So I want to know, what you meant by that you �hate �you never loved me enough� argument. I wish I was strong enough to counter argue like you when my partner claims I did not love him enough. But I do lack the strength, because I feel maybe something is wrong with me to make my partners feel I do not love them enough. And because I felt guilty in both cases (XH and XBF), I ended up spending a lot of my time trying to �fix� things.

If I ask differently, when is the statement "you didn't love me enough" argument valid?

Also, how is that different from my feeling of "XBF was always gone to play golf and could not even say ILY in 5 years"? If I translate my feeling, it is the lack of love, no? So we are both quilty. It's like a chicken and an egg. Never ending. We both failed to make each other feel loved. Therefore it's a bad match? Or is it because I am willing to make changes but because he is not willing to make changes?

I miss him... Sigh.

Milkshake, if neither of you felt cared for, cherished by the other, it is probably just a bad match.

But, in general, I object to the "you never loved me enough" argument because it's a lot like blaming the victim. And I've seen people use it to blungeon others into submission. No matter what, it's never enough.

It's different than having complaints about specific behaviors that can be easily changed, like curtailing golf to 8 holes a weekend, max.