By the way, pontificate? Me?

Bluster? Yes. Blow hard? Yes.

Flake? Absolutely.

From the 'pot calling the kettle black' dept, shall we say?

Saw your note to HFD. It appears the "Dr Jeckyll" version of MSS is back. He's much preferable to the "Mr. Hyde" manifestation.

How have things been progressing, Mike?

Doing well, thanks for asking.

Aside from my inner lunatic making himself known, things are ok.

I will say this one thing this whole deal has done is allow my wife to be hardened to many things, which I have mentioned in the past. On the good side of that is that she lets my crazed moments flow off her like they never happened.

Her friend once described it as she's able to 'take it'. From her mother, friends, OM, and now its me.

Its not a quality I like but seeing as she sometimes claims not to remember a rant I laid on her just the night before it turns out a good defense mechanism against mental stress, I guess. I like to think its how she stayed in her thing when clearly it wasnt so terrific for quite a while.

Im certainly doing what I can to avoid said rants.

I appreciate you asking about things.

I like to think my wife enjoys being with me clothed or unclothed.

I like to think she's on board with me mentally when shes with me physically.

She got pretty mad when I asked her a while back if I was overdoing it or expecting too much SF as compensation for my hurt. She said near the top of her many regrets is denying me that for so long.

She fully understands the smash to a person's manhood that a cheating wife delivers. (Especially hurtful when the OM is about as feminine as a hetero man could get, between us here.)

As a son of my dad who treated women (woman, his wife) like gold I have no ability to hurt my wife physically. (And up until 5/9/11, I never did any mental abuse either.) So, with this renaissance in the bedroom I sometimes ask myself if she is truly 'into' it or 'just compensating'?.

She has never complained. She has never denied me since dday. She has even initiated, God Bless her.

My bruised manhood is recovering due a lot to it.

Why do I need to look this gift horse in the mouth like so many aspects of our recovery??? Im freaking nuts. There's one answer.

Wow, now that I've untangled from MM's thread.....

Its the 'Get of of Jail Free Card' we get to carry. We could go get our own affair going, we could leave, we could brow beat, demand SF, we can do so many things heretofore wasn't part of our existance. What is she going to do?

Complain? Leave? If she's still home than she's going to 'take it'...None of which makes a good marriage. Making her understand she is still an equal in this marriage after her major self-inflicted beat down is crucial.

Your first paragraph above is basically all true for any BS. (In a larger scheme, it's actually true for any human.) The point is similar to a discussion I had with a friend a few years ago buying a new home. He said he had the money to (over)pay for the house, using a "balloon" mortgage, so was of a mind to do so. My admonition to him was that though it was something he could do, it was unlikely something he should do. (Sadly, he did buy the house; it's now in foreclosure proceedings.)

I would apply the same "test" to your situation, Mike. The issue would be even if you could get away with doing those things to FWW, should you, given the ultimate damage of those initiatives to MSS?

You seem to approach the answer in your second paragraph, friend, but still miss one key element. "After her major self-inflicted beat down" is enough damage to try to repair. I would hope you are slowly beginning to understand that any "MSS-inflicted beat down" is tremendously worse.

This cannot happen, Mike. For YOUR sake, as her psyche is permanently part of your living environment, inflicting discomfort on her is foolish. Suck it up, dude. Smile when you're hurting. Be kind when you want to lash out. Even though the mosquito of resentment is biting your arm, swatting it away with the razor-blade of retaliation is...inadvisable. (Dammit, two analogies in one post!)

We were on a date night last night so I nodded, "you're right."

My mother in law called yesterday and warned us to be ready for a funeral for 'Bob' a long time family friend in the final stage of a 5-year battle with cancer. My wife relayed the story on the way to dinner that Bob's cancer has spread to other organs and he has been coughing up blood and has bouts of delirium. When you factor in that Bob's daughter and my wife's friend, 25 years ago, died in car accident, a picture of a family with much sorrow emerges.

After a minute of quiet contemplation, my wife said "at least our problems can be fixed".

I nodded, "you're right".

However, I couldn't help think to myself Bob and his wife didnt CHOOSE cancer and the untimely death of their teenager as my wife did choose her adultery. I didn't find the comparison fair.

I nodded, "you're right" because part of the results of her A is neutered conversation. Having a nice dinner trumped my real thoughts.

(she did decide to not go to dinner at a place about a mile from OM house that later she told me she believed going there and being as close as it was would trigger me. I told her I was thinking about their fried clams since 10am. But she has seen my triggered moods and was being proactive.)

Another example of why Doc H recommends moving far away from the OM.

After a minute of quiet contemplation, my wife said "at least our problems can be fixed". I nodded, "you're right".

Success, Mike, is a measure not of where we are, but of how far we have come.

So, Professor NG will give you a grade of "B" on this.

An "A" grade would have been to

• actually believe, and
• follow up with,

something like, "...and not only CAN be fixed, but WILL be fixed!"

How was the rest of your weekend?

Ill take a "B".

Could have devolved into a failing grade so easily but I held my tongue.

The 'at least we have our health' credo misses the mark with me as Im so mentally and physically damaged by all this.

-----------

Bob's sickness means my in-laws were going to move up their Holiday visit north by a couple a weeks and guess who they stay with the entire time? Not a fun prospect.

Turns out Bob has taken a turn for the better and doctors are confident he'll be around for a several months more. The in-laws are keeping their original travel plans. Still a 10 day stay at Chez MSS.

...Im so mentally and physically damaged by all this.

Yes, but "at least (your) problems can be fixed", and FWW seems fully enlisted in fixing them.

Bury the past, dude. Improve the future. The faster you can complete the first and concentrate on the second, the less pain you'll suffer.

"You're right."

I am confident that one of the reasons recovery has gone pretty smoothly in my situation is in burying the past. Oh, we've had ups and downs and Lord only knows it hasn't been perfection - is it ever? But, I find we are always better served by holding our tongues when it comes to the A or to OW.

The ironic part of that is at first, I thought we were "wrong" in not talking about it. I thought we were "avoiding" and that it was a bad thing. (Obviously I mean AFTER all the truth had come out.) H and I are both conflict avoiders to a large extent and I worried that we needed to be talking about things in order to heal. As it turns out, Dr. H recommends not bringing it up - even triggers - and I was a bit shocked by that. In our case we hadn't done much of that anyway but all that time I had been thinking we needed to be talking more. Nope!

Obviously you have to get the truth all out and the unfaithful spouse needs to understand the hurt caused, etc... But really, bringing it up - bringing the past into the present - doesn't solve a thing: it just keeps you hurting. Every time you mention the AP - or anything having to do with the A - you just smack yourself over the head with a big huge hammer and bruise yourself further.

There have been times when I wanted to lash out at my H and felt it very unfair that I *couldn't* just let loose on him because my grief is his fault. I just keep reminding myself that it is for my own benefit that I keep my mouth shut. (Because believe me, during those moments when I want to lash out I'm not thinking of benefiting him!)

Looking back, even in the few times that I've brought up a trigger - however calmly - I can see that it did not benefit me. I didn't feel better because of it. I turned what might have been a 15 minute down period into HOURS.

It might be different if there was some healing power of discussing it but there just isn't in a lot of ways. What can you change? Nothing. It mentally puts you right back into the land of misery - recapturing the bad feelings of when they were wayward. If you're doing the MB program you've already learned the lesson of where things went wrong and are working at improving those things every day - so - you won't be enlightened anymore by further discussion of events that occurred. Also, for me - when I allow myself to dig in the past I find my disrespect for my H just multiples 10x - within minutes! That's certainly not healthy for our present or future. And sure - he has to earn that respect now - but why purposely go into pit zone???

It's like my beloved Gators losing Saturday - missing out on the Final Four in a game they had in hand: I hurt a lot less when I stay away from sports pages or ESPN rather than dwelling on it. Why wallow?

OK - I know that's lame... but just trying to bring a moment of levity.

I just didnt want her affair to be, in any way, shape, or form, to be construed as similar to a person stricken by cancer.

Two different family trajedies. One chosen, one not.

One avoidable, one not.

The only similarities are the innocent victims will live forever with the (crappy) memories.

Great post -- thanks, Sunny.

It addressed alot of what's been on my mind as well (and there's A LOT going on up there right now).

Thanks!

I can certainly see that. And you know what? You would've been better served had your wife not alluded to the past by her statement. Why even mention "problems"??? While it was not a direct mention of the A, it certainly took you RIGHT there, didn't it - regardless of how subtle a comment it was!

The abstaining from talking of the past is on her as well as on you. BOTH of you need to focus on here and now.

It is hard to control everything that pops out of your mouth but if you make it a practice to only focus on being productive in the marriage - and on the present and future - those little things will take care of themselves.

I agree with everything you say. Here and now.

Things have been terrific here nonetheless. And, dinner was great.

Didnt want to hijack another thread but I like this quote and had me thinking today:

Quote:

It helps when I remember that the A - even if it was "exciting" (as we all know they are because they're not based in reality) had a huge downside as well: not just in the repercussions, but in the actual moments of the A. All that supposed excitement came with guilt, fear of being caught, and shame. And I can't imagine that the excitement retains any of its luster having now gone through the repercussions!


This is something I try my hardest to think of when Im feeling the heat rush of anger and anxiety. What, in my case, really drives home this concept is the sheer patheticness of my wife remaining in this thing AFTER the excitement of the initial timeframe wore off. And, I know very well that the embarassment of it all has taken a toll on her since dday.

Getting caught brought on some of worst thoughts of guilt and shame on her ESPECIALLY since she admits (and I kind of knew as I look back) that she didnt want to be around him at a certain point but was unable to leave. She has to live with not only the standard stuff of a caught adulterer but the mental load of being under the grip of another person. Of being blind to reality and capable of destruction at the highest levels.

Lately, I try to angle my anger in light of all this. Combined with her strict adherence to all things a great marriage has, I find I can realign my thoughts most times.

Bottom line is that she doesnt spend a second thinking about what was. She lives in the now and what will be. She handles my momentary and becoming less and less bouts of anger and frustration by ignoring them and not giving them attention they DON'T deserve. And by not uttering a word about her prior life it doesnt lend even the slightest implication that it matters to her today. (Sometimes, I feel like the A didnt matter to her when she was in it!! It just was. Yuck.) It was what it was: a collossal mistake, nothing more.

I like to think that the emotions she lives with today completely obstruct the best of times she had then. Perhaps this is why she can claim she doesnt recall details when I asked about them a while back. Lets go with that.

Good thoughts, Mike!

Who would WANT to recall those details about something that is now so repulsive?!!!!

To illustrate just how far Ive come, to wit:

(Or twit, you choose.)

Text conversation from earlier:

me: How's your haircut? (New person cutting her hair.)

her: Nice (picture included in text)

me: Oh, its nice. Different. I like it.

her: Its a 'side-bang', never had that before.

me: It's very nice.

The old mss would have jumped on that 'side-bang' comment with a crude, albeit funny only to me, but crude and ultimately hurtful comment.

I opted to bring it here instead. Even in my darkest hour I can find a little humor. Maybe very little.