Dear livensi


Plan B, as dr Harley has said


I think you are right to go back Plan B, as for how to do it right this time, ask help for Plan B vets, Scotland for instance.

Even if the affair has ended your spouse has obviously not agreed to MB plan for recovery.

I rather suspect that the affair is ongoing.


I would relist your conditions to recovery. Don't give in one bit.


You shouldn't leave your own home, pack his things, leave them to the porch, Plan B letter attached and following is not your concern. This is not your problem from where he is going to get money to rent an apartment. In our loan system the mortgage payment is something bank takes automatically from a person's account who has signed the loan documents, I don't think it matters who occupies the apartment in real life...


Does your son actually know about the affair?

Thanks for the answer Mrs_Recon6mo,

I dont know I somehow feel it will be better for me to move out, may be because he wont be able to make a big deal out of him paying everything and not getting anything for himself. His salary really goes for loans and expenditure for the family, he cant even buy a car for himself (recently lost a office car). He feels this is his apartment and has every right to be here. If I am with my parents he cannot have such demands and feelings. Also DS5 loves being with his grandfather and I hope won't miss WH so much. It will be more difficult for me though I really feel better here.

DS5 knows everything. His dad while I was in plan B was telling him that he is trying to 'fix his life' and soon will be home. So he came back home and now DS knows that his dad is no longer with the nasty woman and everything is ok. Don't know what to tell him, his father will convince him that he has no contact with the OW.

You are making it too easy for him.

Besides, when you are in plan B, his demands and feelings will not reach you if you do it properly.

You probably have to explain your son what plan B is about. And why are you doing it. Good marriage is not just no contact with OP.

Please call Scotland for help and backbone.

Livensi,

What is your list of requirements for recovery?

Mrs_Recon6mo, sorry for not answering, but it's been a tough week.
We have moved out and are now living with my parents for a week. Last Friday I told him things are not going good and I do not trust him and either he takes poly on Monday or I leave. He did not agree and I started packing myself and the kids. He came home and after lots of anger he admitted he has been in touch with OW...but he has not seen her. He says he convinced her not to come back here (her assignment was getting over and she was in a different country) and to take permanent job in her country. He said she is not coming back and although he has been talking to her, he has not allowed her to come or meet him. Once he went on a business trip to her home country and said he had to fight with her not to come and meet him there. So according to him what should matter to me is that he has convinced her to stay out of our country, fight with her so she does not go and meet him.
Anyway we had an agreement after the last FR that if he continues lying and contact with her our marriage is over and even that did not stop him.

Me and kids moved out last Friday night and since then I have been on semi plan B (I was getting his texts, but not answering anything). I was getting lots of texts from him about how one day all this pain will be gone, how he wants to come and just sleep with us, but after that I will submit him again to all this crap (meaning poly and quit job), how he misses us, how he is in a terrible pain. Last Saturday I received a text how he came in the middle of the night with a taxi (he does not have a car, I took it with me) and was standing there outside thinking if he should ring and come and hug me and sleep with us. Then he decided better not and went back home.

Sunday in the middle of the night the door bell rangl, I knew it was him and decided to ignore and sleep, but my mother opened and he just came, laid behind me and hugged me. I was missing him terribly the previous few days so I let it happen. Hugs, I miss you, sex and then ...recovery talk. He said he does not want to lie or hurt me anymore and then basically blame-shifted all his crap on me. Said I want soo much sacrifices (that means all the recovery things - quit job and so on) from him that I push him to talk to her. He agreed to take the MB online course, but very far from being enthusiastic about it. Anyway I saw absolutely no change in him, got very disappointed on me for letting him back in so easy and on him for being such a selfish and foggy pig.

I showed him Pepperband's thread wayward fog disassembled and decoded and he read it, but I doubt anything went into his wayward head.

So we said bye to each other with the agreement that he will work on himself, that he will post in the forum and I give him one week to see the needed changes for recovery. I will see how his thread goes and I will decide if I want to reconcile with him. Well one week is over and he did not even open a thread. Anyway he said he does not feel like doing all these things, so why did I even expect to see a change?

Ok as far as I can see he does want to be back together with us, but he just does not want to move his finger about it. Oh he also told me how he has always been doing what he feels and he does not like being forced to do stuff. Also he expects everything to come as feelings.
He expects to dump OW, not to have any bad feelings about it, she to leave him alone and not make a drama about it (he has been convincing her to find some one else) and him and me to feel deeply in love without any efforts. All these nice things should fall from the sky for us. Every one is happy and that is it.

Every day for this one week I have been receiving texts: "Good night and kisses to my three gems", "good morning and kisses to my three gems". I havent been talking to him this whole week or responded to his texts. I am very repulsed and hurt and angry and I don't believe any more he will change to do the needed things for recovery. Yesterday I texted him the week is over and I see no change and I am moving on and he has lost his last option. Got an answer not to rush things.

I am going on a dark plan B now, and blocking all his phones and emails. I will concentrate on myself and kids and somehow stop thinking about him.

Me and the kids are ok here with my parents. We are getting lots of care, love and attention and it feels nice and home for all 3 of us. The situation sucks, but I thank God I have my parents to help me out.

I haven't managed to block his number yet. Yesterday again in the middle of the night he was calling me. I switched my phone off. He started calling the landline, but I just ignored it. Got this text today when I switched my phone back on.
"I miss u guys so much, cant we just fix this? If you really want me gone, I will try all I can not to call anymore"

I really don't get this and cannot understand him. He knows very well what I need him to do in order "to fix this", but still acts like a poor helpless victim. It's been one year. Every time I went away because he never stopped contact with the OW, he managed to convince me that he wants his marriage and family back. Every time we will go through the same talk, how he needs to stop contact, what he needs to do for recovery. And every time he never did it. Why is he keeping me on the hook like that then? Why is he just not letting me go and torturing me? Or why won't he just do what is required to get his family back? Is he so weak really, that he is unable to stay away from OW? Is there something I could have done different to help him out?

She is very manipulative, I feel like she is trying to have some kind of competition here... to see who wins? He has told her many times he wants to be with his family, he wrote her a NC letter, he even brought her home once to tell her in front of me he wants to be with his family, but she just wont let go. What is she getting out of this relationship? And what is he getting out of this relationship? He knows clearly he does not want to be family with her, he does not want to live and be with her. He told me that many times. Then why is he hurting and destroying everything around him? What is wrong with her and what is wrong with him?

He used to be a very nice person. Where did his dignity, honesty, care for family and kids vanish? You guys talk about addiction. It's a good excuse for what happens to them, but after all they are grown up people, that need to take responsibility for their actions. Most of them are parents. He is a parent, does he not understand at all what he is causing to his 2 beautiful kids, that he claims he loves more than anything? I just don't get any of this. I have never in my life seen infidelity, never in my life seen such dishonesty and pain caused by a family member. Sorry for the vent. I need to go dark on him or else I will never be able to get away from his drama. I want him back, I still love the person that he used to be, but he needs to change a lot for that and I don't see that happening.

Livensi,


Well, the thing is that you are enabling and encouraging him to be ... old him. There are no severe concequences from your part. What he gets from you is that it is OKAY to be in contact with OW because you take him back anyway, your threats are empty, because your actions contradict your words.

You are doing semi plan B or plan doormat or whatever you name it. Whatever it is, it isn't working. You are doing the same thing over and over again and every time expect things to be different. You must be a very strong person to let this go on for an over a year.

There is no point in talking sense to a wayward and show him threads, he doesn't understand it, he is so deep in his own making. Expecting a rational change in him is pointless, you need to wake him up. It is time to start doing things properly.

Start reading about plan B - how to do it properly - HERE

FWIW, I resumed contact with my last OM over e-mail after I have promised to end all contact 3 months ago. I didn't see him nor talk to him in person at first. You don't have to - because the full dosage of addiction has already received.

NC is the first step in defogging process. Any type of contact prolongs being under the influence. In terms of contact your H's affair is still ongoing and that requires certain steps from your part. He is unable.

My H finally exposed my affair. After 9 months of false recovery and with his final decision to divorce me. Now, we have been in true recovery for almost 3 years. I am forever grateful to him for saving me.

Mrs_Recon6mo thanks for your answer. I am in plan B now, I am still getting his texts, but am not communicating or seeing him in any way. I will have my iphone jailbraked and will block his number as well today. Emails are already blocked.

What do you advice me to do other than going on dark plan B? I can try to somehow get the OW's friendslist in face book and expose to them. I have exposed to everyone else - friends and relatives they all know. My H is not keeping this secret either, he does not feel like "he has murdered someone". He freely talks to his mother about this and then comes and tells me how the mother will always love and protect her son no matter what. They do not approve, but they are too far away to see what is going on and influence him in some way. We also have a language barrier so we can't freely communicate.
They are very culturally different and I am not very close to his parents but I can speak to his brother again.

My parents have already been harsh on him and he immediately stopped contact with them and started accusing them of all kind of crap for all the years that we have been living together. Him and my parents used to be very close prior to the A.

I don't know if I should start this whole exposure process again or just let him and myself be in plan B. Tired of everything.

I have never seen anyone so far behaving that way, that's why I find it very difficult to understand his actions and lies. Thanks to this forum I see and know the script of how waywards behave, but still don't get it.

My point was that when you do MB programme - which is very cut and dry - then do it properly. Dark plan B means NC with your WS. It is a lifestyle without taking him into account at all. He should have no access to you other than through IM and only about finances and kids. Do you have an IM? A trustworthy and one that can understand MB mode?

I don't think living in your parents house would be enough protection for plan B'ing, since your parents seem to have a soft spot on him and can easily let him inside. It would have been wiser not leave your home. Does your parents know about plan B?

When you are in plan B you shouldn't contact his family either. He must get the message that you are completely out of his life and for as long as it takes.

I have not been in plan B and that is why I cannot advise you on that much.

Livensi, MrsRec called out the Plan B help, and I answered that call.

There is one sure fire way to end his texts to you, CHANGE YOUR NUMBER. You don't need to jailbreak your phone to do that. Get that done, TODAY. Don't let him know that you have changed your number.

Also, turn off your answering machine on your landline. WSs go nutso when their BS tries to enter Plan B. And the fact that you have already tried to separate with him in the past, he may think that he just needs to do something just so, to get you to allow him to communicate with him again.

Is there any other way that he may contact you? Email? Show up where you are? etc? Get this taken care of, IMMEDIATELY.

Does he have visitation with the children? How does that work?

Are you looking at WH, or OW's FB pages? Do you check up on your WH at all? Is there any cracks that need plugging?

Why does your WH want to keep you on the hook? Because he needs BOTH you and OW to fill all of his ENs right now. He craves BOTH of you, because it makes him feel GREAT. That's why he doesn't want to stop. Doesn't matter though. You need to deal with what is. And your reality is that your WH is choosing to continue to commit adultery, rather than save his marriage, so what are YOU going to do about it? Now that you have found MB, your choice is easy. You go dark until he has committed to end his affair FOR LIFE, and chooses your marriage over his affair. You do that by setting that bar for recovery HIGH.

Have you ever read stories of other posters who have done Plan B? Maybe that will help you.

And as far as exposing to OW's friends, if you can do that today, and then get dark, I think that would be okay.

So, get NC with your WH your priority, today, and don't read his texts, that isn't part of Plan B. Besides, around here, words mean nothing, it's ACTIONS that matter. His actions are showing you that his affair hasn't ended. Deal with THAT.

Dear Livensi!

We all feel for you. This is a horrible situation to be in, especially with your small children. You want them to have their father.
It is so understandable that you tend to take him back too easily. But at the same time it is SO WRONG!

Do you think anyone would value his Iphone as much if they came at Walmart for 2 bucks? The things you value the most are the things you see value and enjoyment in, that are at the same time hard to come by. Things you can barely afford. Not those things you get for free when buying a gallon of fuel for the car.

Livensi, you and your children are worth an entire husband. Not one who is only 40% there and 60% with his thoughts, feelings, energy and effort by this cheap other woman.

His short term lizard brain wants to have sex with you and to make sure that you take him back, but he doesn't want to let go of her. But deep down, in the back of his head, he wants himself to be someone he can respect. At this point in time his lizard brain is winning. He needs some help here, which means, someone has to be strong for him.

I can only imagine what you have been going through in this time, having to be strong. But once again, the only one who just might be able to slay the dragon here is YOU. You have to be strong for the both of you, for all four of you. You must do it for the children. They cannot live in this rollercoaster anymore. What are you doing!

I repeat, I find it so understandable that you have not always been able to resist getting him back. But the consequenses!
Every time you give in to his lizard, you are teaching him that he only has to push a bit harder and you will fall over. Every time you give in to (essentially) his temper tantrums, it will get harder to teach him to respect you the next time.

He does want his family in his life, but he cannot let go of OW. And because she is less invested, she can easily say to him: do as I say or I dump you. Your only chance is, to seem to care less for him as the man he at this point chooses to become. It is true what is said: the one who cares the least has the most power. Think about it - it is true in almost any situation.
Plan B means, you tell him how you care about the man he was and how you wish the relationship with that man back. But you ALSO make clear that you are not the least interested in a relationship with the man he is being at the moment. He might as well be dead. You will talk to the real him, if he proves to you that he is just that. But you will not and will never again talk to the wayward him again. You do not care about this man. He is not the old him, he is just a shell of himself.

The second point is: What are you thinking taking your children's home away from them????? Why are you allowing the OW to cause your children to leave their trusted home???? Unless there is a nuclear war going on, why rip your children out of their trusted environment? WH has taken your head off and put it back false. THINK AGAIN. Plan B means he will get to taste some consequenses for his actions. Consquenses means that it will sink in with him, that life is going to be a whole lot harder than he thought when he bought the little house. Because you and the children will be living in it. And he can go live under a bridge because he is not the man that protects his family. As much as you might want is, he is an alien. He is attacking the family unit, together with his evil OW. He must live under the bridge, or in his office. Also, your parents are clearly not a plan B solution, they are an active break in plan B.
Move Back.

Exposure does not have that much effect anymore at this point, unless of course OW's family does not know, and you can get her father to beat the xxx out of your WH. On the other hand, she will not be able to play the innocent girl with new boyfriend if her friends know she broke up a family. But you stated everyone knows anyway.

So do yourself and the children a favour: do not break plan B anymore, it is hurting your chances of succes, by letting your husband think he can have you anytime if he (temporarily) wants to dump OW, but does not want to do the work.

Can you give us some indication of the country you are in? You will be surprised about how many nationalities are present here and I am sure someone will be able to help you communicate with your in-laws.

Please consider yourself worthy of a GOOD husband, not just a crippled egoistic version.

May God give you the strength you need,

Happyheart

hear, hear.

livensi, i know exactly how you feel, and how easy it is to take them back because you love and hope too much. but they won't respect you if you do, as you (and i) found out. you really need to go dark. you are lucky to have your family around. take advantage of that. move back in, have your dad meet him at the door with your letter & his luggage and tell him to hit the high road until he pulls his head out of his ... fog. 100% compliance, or no marriage. stop letting him run the show. take control.

Livensi, what are your thoughts and what's your action plan?

And just out of curiosity - are you from Northern Europe?

Livensi, this is not Plan B. YOU may not be communicating with him, but HE is certainly communicating with you. His words are having an effect, maybe meeting an EN.

Why are you still getting his texts? Why have you not already changed your number? I know the answer... I am in Plan B, I know how I thought and felt. I WANTED WH's contact. Every time that phone beeped or rang, I jumped, wondering if it was him and if this time he would be remorseful and committed to recovery.

You can not focus on yourself and your own recovery (and recovery for your children) with this mindset. My anxiety eased so much once I changed that number, as difficult as it was to do. I am now so grateful for the peace that comes with this that I am protective of that number. I am reluctant to give it out to mutual contacts, so much so that on the few occasions when I have I give instructions that under no circumstances is my number to be passed on to WH. So far people have understood this 100%.

Livensi, I've just realised you have a Plan B vet posting to you... please answer her questions and act on the advice. Take notes on what you need to do so you don't skip steps.

When you get a chance, read Scotland's thread, and Indiegirl's as well.

Hello,

Thank you so much for the support. I guess you are all right that I myself am responsible for what he is doing to me and that I have enabled it.

I have another email from him, I guess that will be the last one. I have instructed my mother on plan B and she will not give any other info about him anymore. She has forwarded it to me before that. WH is blocked on my email so he sent it to her:

I registered in this forum for you, I miss you and I am sorry about everything.... but I just feel so [censored] doing things I dont want to do. Its the same as with this consuler we went to. If you force and force me, I feel [censored] and revert back into nonsense. Maybe its sounds as a stupid excuse and I know I am to be blamed but still without peace its just impossible to live. I read all the articles in this forum but I dont want to post anything. I am ready to do anything for our old life back, but I cannot give myself up, just say yes to everything the wife has to say without any needs. I really miss everything we had but I need to understand the current reality and have to deal with the consequences of what has happened between us. If the only way to stay in this marriage is giving up everything and being pushed and pushed and pushed, thats not fair for anyone and it will only result in some other problem down the road. I respect your decision not to pick the phone, and not to talk to me. The only thing I can do is push myself to forget and try and find happiness in any little thing I can and move on with life. I am here for you anytime you need me, if and when you want. I don't care a [censored] about any girl or anything in life, I just want peace and may be smile in our life again. Its been a horrible year and a half, I understand I caused a lot of pain and hurt, I am sorry but as you said sorry alone may not be good enough at this point. Take care and I wont bother you anymore with some stupid texts which probably does not even mean anything anymore.

Have you CHANGED your phone number? Have you CHANGED your email address? Have you CHANGED when you swim?

I have blocked him everywhere - phone and email. As for the swimming I don't go at any particular timings, just whenever possible. If he really tries hard he can get me there or anywhere else, but I will not speak to him.

I am getting used to life without him and feeling much better already. And I think I finally get it. I cannot do anything to change him, nothing I do will influence him or make him see what he is doing. He has to come to realize that by himself and the only thing I can do is protect myself and the kids until that happens and if that ever happens.
I think I am finally able to let go and I will do everything possible to have a good life for me and the kids with or without him.
Feeling little bit sad and upset for DS5 he does not show it or talk about it, but I can see this is very hard on him and I don't know if I am doing and explaining things to him the right way. I can't get him to speak about this or about his feelings. After he sees his dad he comes home somehow changed and sad.

Thanks everyone for the help and the support. I really appreciate it.