Livensi, thanks for update.

Please consider really hard to change the swimming pool, not just times. Or even the field of sports if needed. This IS important not to have anything to do with him or SEE him. Not speaking but still seeing is pointless. You should change your whereabouts so that he cannot wait you anywhere. Doing a proper plan B will help you toughen up.

Try to talk about the situation with your son, he needs to see that you are one stable thing in his life and that you are there for him.

Take care

I saw that you blocked him, I asked if you CHANGED any numbers, etc, because just blocking may not be good enough. He could use a pay phone to call you, and he could create a new email addy to email you.

For now he has backed off. Have not heard anything from/of him since that last email. If he tries some other tricks to get to me I will take more drastic measures, but I think he has given up.

It's so very hard. I thought I have gone through this the last time I went in plan B and thought this time it will be much easier. I am missing him so very bad (not the him now, but the him he used to be), am feeling so hurt, so betrayed, so sad, soooo lonely. I am so upset and disappointed on him I really believed that we had a pure and special relationship upto this A. Everything turns out to be a lie, may be my whole perception of him and us all these years was a lie. May be he was never the person I thought he is.

It would have been so much easier to go on without kids. I can never forgive him or her what they did to my kids, I can never forget how they scarred 2 pure Innocent kids for life out of pure selfishness. I know they will never be happy in their lifes if they go on and I know the karma bus will get them sooner or later, but I am still very upset for my kids.

Anyway I need to let it out and I believe that's the place where I can do that and be understood, so I am sorry for the vent.
I am taking care of myself as much as I can, but time seems to be passing by so slowly and so painfully. I wonder if I ever will feel whole and happy again. He was my everything, he was my first and only in any sense. I was only 17 when I met him. I feel at a great loss.

One good thing to share is that I have started learning forex trading and it feels nice to make some $ on my demo account. At least instead of sad and nostalgic dreams of him and us nowadays I am dreaming....numbers

Thanks for listening and sorry for my english

This must be very painful, livensi.

Try to keep yourself busy as this is kinda NC time from your WH. Plan your time carefully so that you do not have much free time to let your thoughts go wander.

Thanks for the support Mrs_Recon6mo.

I am doing ok - one day up, the next day down. I guess that's normal.
I have started seriously considering divorce at this point. He has shown over a year that his wife and kids do not matter to him and that he does not bother if he loses them. He does not care to fight or take a deeper look at himself and the things that he has caused to his family.


I am so tired of this. I want it all over and may be the divorce will put an end to my hurt, disappointment and hopes.
He clearly is not doing any of what he said he will the last time we spoke before plan B. I think he is even considering moving back to his home country. So may be the best for me and the kids will be a divorce at this point and getting free from all this.

Dear livensi,

There are people on this board who have started plan D simultaneously with plan B. If I'm not wrong then Indie is one of them.

Read this - When to call it quits? (part 1)

Hiya Livensi... please pay attention to Scotland's posts. She is the Mama Bear of Plan B. Her post above is NOT related to what your WH is doing. It is about YOU.

Right now, the quote above shows you are waiting for your WH to contact, and part of you is disappointed he has backed off. Plan B is not about him trying to contact you, it is about you healing yourself. If your WH decides to meet YOUR conditions for recovery, well okay. But if not, you don't want to be waiting to see if he will try to slip under the high bar you deserve. And that is what his attempts to contact you without meeting your conditions is. Sooo, the best way forward in Plan B, is to stop wondering if he is trying to contact you or not. And the only way to do that is to putty up any ways he can contact you. Change email, phone number, swimming pools, etc. Even tell your parents not to pass messages. If he is not contacting your IM about meeting your conditions, you do not need to know.

Breaking Plan B and allowing contact sets your recovery back to D Day. You have had contact, and this is why Plan B is not getting easier. And your doubting your WH and questioning him and your life together is NORMAL. I did this too. That is what betrayal does. We wonder if we ever really knew them.

I've thought and felt exactly the same livensi. So have others here. Have you read Indie's thread yet? Scotland's? It helps to know others have survived and to admire how much stronger they are.

Dreaming numbers... and you apologise for your English... numbers to me IS a foreign language!!! Now Livensi, you have shown you are starting to understand Plan B. It is about YOU!

Hiya livensi, been wondering how things are going for you?

Hey Caracal, I was actually going to post now, thanks for thinking about me

It's been more than a month since plan B started. I have not personally spoken to him or seen him, but my plan B is not what it should be for me to heal. My mother is the IM, I thought it will be better that way cos she gives him the kids anyway and they can directly speak if anything. BUT she cannot go through all the pressure he puts her and she breaks. She is more lost than me. She can't be tough with him and every day we are having conversations in the house of what he wrote, what he told etc. I have asked her not to speak to me about him, but she just cant handle this. She needs to be in plan B as well. I need new IM urgently, but my friend that used to be my IM last time is having her father in coma. I dont think I should bother her with my brainless WH.
And the problem is that I have noone else to ask, so I am stuck.

Of course given the situation my recovery is going nowhere. I am worse than the first few weeks, I am even unable to sleep these days. I feel ready for a D, spoke to a lawyer yesterday and not only that I have to live with my WH betrayal, dreams destroyed, life destroyed, marriage destroyed, but I have no way to secure and protect myself financially. All the loans we took are hanging on my head even if we divorce If one day he stops paying or vanishes I have no clue what will happen to me and my kids. No bankruptcy in my country and they will just block a big % of my salary. That is really bothering me, the money is a lot and I will not be able to pay it. If my dear WH decides he does not need or want to stay in the country anymore and packs his bags and leaves I just have to vanish somewhere

As for him, I think he is back deep down in his A. On Easter he brought a basket with eggs for the kids. He has never painted eggs with us or in his entire life I believe he had his b!tch prepare that basket for my kids.

I believed in every way I could that he still loved us, missed us and wanted us and that he would fight to get us back. Obviously I was far away from the truth, may be the whole time he was just waiting for me to move out or kick him out. I don't miss him anymore, I don't feel anything good for him, I don't even remember the person he used to be. All I feel when I think about him is hurt, lies, destruction, selfishness, cruelty and how he was using me and playing me the whole time - while I was pregnant, after I gave birth, after I took him back several times. What a jerk really!

Also he is trying to convince himself that he is a good person and a good father. Yeah a great father that destroyed the most valuable thing for his kids, a great person who has stabbed his own loving wife in the back even while pregnant with his child. Before we couldn't see his eyes in the evenings, he was always late, always had work blah blah, now he started taking half days off when he is with the kids, suddenly he is not that busy anymore.

I need help how to handle the kids visitations. He wants more and more. He is using DS5, buying him stuff and doing what he wants to please him no-matter if it is healthy for him. I have asked him to have the kids every Tuesday and Thursday after work for 3 hours. Now he has managed to manipulate the kid to sleep with him. I tried fighting that but I have to put DS in the middle of the fight. The kid comes and asks me can I sleep with daddy and if I say no, "why can't I sleep with daddy?" and "are you mad at me if I sleep with daddy?". I have no clue how to handle this situation. So now he has every Tuesday, Thursday and every other Saturday. Every time the kid is with him, he wants to sleep with him. What does dr H suggests about kids visitations?

Well done! Your first attempt at Plan B and you buckled. This time, you are showing you deserve better than crumbs. Every day, be proud of yourself that you have gone another day without contact.

Plan B seems to work better when the IM is not family. Family can be too effected by a wayward's behaviour, and often themselves are grieving the loss of who the wayward once was. In my sitch, there is no way my mother could have been IM... she likely would have ended up doing bodily damage to WH so he could no longer be an active wayward

Also, I know the relationship between the BS and the IM changes as a result. At least, it did for me, and I think Indie also noted changes for her when her sister acted as an IM for a short while. The BS starts second-guessing things about the IM and reading into IM's behaviour as though it is related to the WS.

From reading Plan B'ers on here, Plan B seems to work best for everyone when IM contact is by email. That way, the IM can respond impartially rather than letting emotions overide as can happen in person / phone. The IM also has time to consider what is relevant and what is not, and is not put on the spot by the WS.

The IM does not need to live near you, some MB'ers haven't even met their IM in real life. Are you sure there is no-one else who could be IM?

Livensi, please visit your doctor if you haven't already.

Hon, you are still being battered by your WH. He is still getting to you through your IM and your kids. You know far too much about WH, and every piece of information is a fresh wound. You won't be able to heal this way. Lets see you take action to tighten up Plan B. When you have no cracks in Plan B, you will heal.


I'm not one to know much about the legal aspects. This is a lot of uncertainty hanging over you though. Other BS's have filed for D to protect themselves financially. Or obtained legal separation. Have you explored these options in your country? Since WH is living in the apartment, what financial arrangement has been put in place with the loan?

Again, I'm no expert with this having no kids myself. I'm hoping Plan B'ers with kids might chime in here.

Plan B is NOT about considering your WH's EN's. It is about YOU and your children. I'm unsure what your original arrangement was when you entered Plan B. If your WH wants changes made, he has to go through the IM and wait for your response. Otherwise, you stick with the original arrangement. You do not allow DS5 to become the messenger between you and WH, and right now that is what is happening. The kids need routine through this, and your WH is wanting sleepovers whenever it suits him. Can you get a legal arrangement in place about visitation?

Pleas read this.
Parallel Parenting

Are you documenting everything down? If not you need to in case you go to Plan D.
Dr. Harley States that whatever it says in your legal separation to follow it. Do you have one?

I would pull the kids' passports should you decide to go to D. More than one WS has run off with the kids.

I agree with Caracal--

There needs to be a legal arrangement for the kids so that he can't just take 'em whenever.

I just read BH's suggestion over on JenniferisLost's thread to document everything.

Its a good idea to follow this livensi, to protect yourself if this gets to Court. Handwritten notes with dates and whether WH collects kids for visits, and if he abides by your agreement or changes things to suit himself.

Thank you all very much for the support. I am glad this place exists and there are such nice people that spend their own time helping others.

I have come to realize that I was living in some king of self-deception of what was right and wrong and about his behavior, I guess that was also driven by financial fears.

The way things are - I am in no plan B and I have seriously decided to take things back in my hands and go very dark.


There is a lot of uncertainty financially and that's the main problem I am facing. Unfortunately even if I D him I am still the co-borrower and even if I have agreement with him that he will be paying the loans if he stops, the bank will have all the right to come and look for money from me. As for now there are no legal arrangements for loans. Anyway I will pretend that this problem does not exist and will move on as there is nothing I can do about it.

I am going to meet with another lawyer tomorrow and make a final decision on how to proceed. In the mean time I have decided that I am going back to my apartment and will live there till we sell it if he does not want to pay.


DS5 is sick and I am sure it has lots to do with the emotional stress from the last few weeks, I am going to protect myself and my kids from the wayward destruction.





Thanks BrainHurts, I read that thread and it has some good information. What do you mean by document everything down? I don't have a legal separation yet. The way things are handled is by agreement with WH and the schedule I made for visitations.



I will get their passports and speak to a lawyer tomorrow.
Document when he gets the kids? The thing is that there is no legal agreement. It's a schedule that I made and that he never really liked or agreed to. I will have to make this legal.


So my priorities are:
1.get new IM ASAP - have no clue how to fix that. Anyone here that would like to be my new IM?
2.Speak to another lawyer for legal separation/divorce.
3.Move back home.
4.Protect the kids from my emotional distress and their fathers wayward behavior by staying dark in plan B and force WH to respect us.
5.My parents no longer communicate to WH. Any talk about him is Forbidden.

Document the times he picks up the kids, the times he doesn't, the times he gives money and the times he doesn't, etc.

Keep a hand written journal with ink and just the facts no emotions. This will help if you have to court, for your protection.

Livensi, as for money matters and planning - go to Dave Ramsey homepage and start from there.

Banks are "doable" when you show initiative and talk to them first about your problems. They tend to be more aggressive towards you when you pretend there is no problem too long and go to them too late.

Thank you all for the advices. I will follow and will start journaling and will speak to the banks if things reach that level.

Things have been pretty calm since my father threw out WH from the house a week back. WH came acting all arrogant telling him how he is the father and my father is only their grandfather and went inside trying to pick up DS5 who was ill with fever. My father physically threw him out and told him he will call the cops if he ever gets in. Thank god I was not home to witness this. My WH got angry started shouting and kicking the door. He is still playing the game that we are using the kids against him and that we are the bad guys and he is the victim. I am starting to think that he will never sober up and will never see reality and what he caused. But the good thing is that since that day he is keeping the schedule with the kids. God knows what he is upto.

I'm pretty much stil feeling very hurt and having him constantly on my mind and I have the weekends being so very hard - that used to be our family time. I am having lots of doubts if I did the right thing and should I have just waited some more or be nicer instead of demanding and expecting. I know the answer but sometimes these thoughts are very hard to deal with. I realise that WH still lives in my head because of all the good memories from before at least 2 years and I really do not have any good memories from more recent times. And I loved the person he used to be then - before he became a big manager in that big multinational company he started working for. That is what changed him and tha A was only a result of that change. So I think that even if the A dies my DH still will not be back.

Today is my 30 year birthday and I took my kids to a nice spa hotel. We used to come here with WH before when DS5 was younger. I miss that time and that husband terribly. Will post more when we get back home.

H A P P Y *** B I R T H D A Y

Happy-happy birthday, Livensi!

I hope things will improve, you seem to have gained some strength, however, what about this plan?


As I see it, you seriously need a new IM a.s.a.p. who can help you with the kids' schedules. Who can take your kids herself and take them to the place where WH picks them up. You will continue to live in those doubts and anguish forever when he has the right to pick them up from the place you actually live, because you and your parents meet him. You are not using Plan B correctly - this is designed to protect YOU, not him to make his life comfortable, but this is what you are doing. You have to take control otherwise you will stay in this limbo forever and this is very depressing place to be.