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I have a question about how to go about meeting my husband's need for financial support. We've known about MB for a while, but just recently talked about the EN questionaire and found out FS is his #2 need, so I'm looking for guidance on how to treat this. The problem is I feel like my husband wants too much money and leans on me for feeling "secure" financially (his words). I feel like this thinking is wrong and should change. For example, we make around $2k a month and he wants more like $5. He grew up with a lot of disposable income/allowances, etc. and gets mad if he doesn't have "enough" money. I grew up pretty poor and I'm okay as long as we're getting by. I've had problems finding non-seasonal employment, but now we're self-employed and I handle the paperwork and sales. He thinks its lazy for me not to work, but that now he's satisfied with the work I do for our business. I still feel like he wants me to work more though. We don't argue much about money, but we did argue before about me getting a job (only found seasonal work after college). Both of our mothers stayed at home and I want to continue that after we have kids, though I don't have a problem working pt after they're in school, or right now (since we don't have kids) which he has agreed to, but I feel half-heartedly. He told me he wants me to work full time always, because its lazy to not work, it helps him feel "secure" that I'll help if he needs it, and even if he makes enough money whatever money I make will still be more. He also strongly believes in working for everything he has because he grew up in a ministry setting where kids frequently told him the money he had or his parents had were from their pockets  . Part of me feels this need isn't valid-- that he has financial security issues and wants an unrealistic amount of money. If it is valid, I still feel like I don't know how to meet this need. Any guidance is appreciated.
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I have a couple thoughts here. Have you read up on POJA?
I would sit down and negotiate with him an amount that would get an enthusiastic agreement from both of you.
Then I would sit down and negotiate with him a plan that would get an enthusiastic agreement on how you can earn that much.
It is disrespectful to assume you know how much money is enough for him. He is a grown man and he can make that decision for himself. Your goal is to figure out how you can meet his need.
The best way to begin is find a solution you both are enthusiastic about.
Have you asked him how much he wants you to make?
Have you asked him what finances look like with children?
Have you asked him how he wants your financial portfolio to look in one, five, ten, 30 years?
I would start here. This gives you a plan to work towards goal. Each step of the way you both use POJA to get to your next step.
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Thanks for your reply. This isn't a huge issue but I want to get it figured out since its his #2. He says $1k a month from me is how much he wants me to make. The $5k/mo is his figure which kind of blew me away. This brings us into another subject about the business. I handle all the sales, but I'm not very outgoing and don't like to do sales, even though I know I need to. We've agreed for him to come with me which makes me less nervous, but now that I think about it the agreement isn't very enthusiastic because he always wants me to do sales when he's working. I think if we made more money from the business that would satisfy most of the problem, and making $5k a month isn't impossible, we only started the business in January. I guess I'm still trying to come to terms with the fact that he wants me to work or provide income in order for him to feel secure.
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When it comes to kids, I think he has a bit of a commitment issue. He didn't see himself getting married before we met, but he always wanted to marry me. He didn't really want to have kids, but I do, and he agreed to having them but he used to say that having kids would "get in the way" and is expensive. We've been trying since January also. We've agreed to me working after the kids are in school. He wants me to work the whole time, but is against using babysitters thus the agreement about working after they're in school. You're right I'll read up about POJA. I think we've agreed to these things, but he's not very enthusiastic. He would still prefer me to work full time and a higher income.
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Correct the commitment issue: he's scared of responsability (his words). After we got married he waited a week to move in. He was scared of not having enough money to be married, and he's scared of not having enough money for kids.
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Just as some women want their husband to provide financial security so they can feel safe in their home, men can feel the same as well. That feeling of financial security is linked to primary motivators such as food and shelter. Without financial security, those primary "needs" are threatened. This is not to say that you couldn't live or pay your rent but that feeling of being trapped or one bad thing in your life (medical bill, car transmission going out, etc) is an unsettling way to live.
If you don't like doing sales, POJA a solution that you can both be enthusiastic about. If this is his #2 issue, it sounds like this is a very pressing issue for him.
Age - 35
Divorce Final - 3/5/12
S - 13
S - 10
D - 8
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told me he wants me to work full time always, because its lazy to not work, it helps him feel "secure" that I'll help if he needs it, and even if he makes enough money whatever money I make will still be more. I have heard some radio shows on this and I am hoping that Markos will weigh in, but typically Dr Harley recommends that the MAN support the woman and that any income the woman brings in should be for her personal use. It sounds like your husband wants more money and is demanding it come from you. He needs to find another way to earn the money he wants. Perhaps he can get training and get a better job? Either way, you are obviously not enthusiastic about going to work, so that is off the table.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Correct the commitment issue: he's scared of responsability (his words). After we got married he waited a week to move in. He was scared of not having enough money to be married, and he's scared of not having enough money for kids. What can he do to earn more money? My husband also has a strong need for financial security, but that has been satisfied by getting promotions and earning more. He also saves his little heart out, which adds to his financial security. The goal is to find ways he can feel financially secure without YOU making sacrifices.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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When it comes to the financial need, I don't think its about bills (I could be wrong). It's more about disposable income. The small business has kind of complicated things. I'm not against working, but I guess I'm not very enthusiastic about lol. I was when I graduated (I wanted to work as a bank teller and work my way up in the financial industry) but I gave up after a couple years and tons of applications. My jobs have been cashiering at the mall during the holiday season, and cashiering at a fair, and babysitting. We both have agreed to doing a budget and we saved money when he had a "normal" job but we've spent all our savings on the business, and we have problems with corporate accounts not paying on time so budgeting now is difficult. He agreed to the budgets but he would like to have more disposable income. He's happy with the cars we have and where we live.
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I've had problems finding non-seasonal employment, but now we're self-employed and I handle the paperwork and sales. He thinks its lazy for me not to work, but that now he's satisfied with the work I do for our business. I still feel like he wants me to work more though. We don't argue much about money, but we did argue before about me getting a job (only found seasonal work after college). Just to clarify - you are working for your joint business now, and he is happy with what you are earning? Are you happy too with this level of income? If the above is true, is your question really about what to do when you have kids? Just trying to get this clear.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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We both have agreed to doing a budget and we saved money when he had a "normal" job but we've spent all our savings on the business, and we have problems with corporate accounts not paying on time so budgeting now is difficult. He agreed to the budgets but he would like to have more disposable income. He's happy with the cars we have and where we live. So maybe the solution would be for him to get a more stable job with predictable income?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Here's where I'm at now: I think that if we had savings that would help him feel a lot more secure, and what he really wants is more disposable income for things like shopping, eating out, and socializing (which aren't a high priority for me, I saw those as unnecessary expenses we should minimize). So we're going to work on doing sales together to increase our income, and we're going to budget more for those things I listed above. He made it clear he wants me to work to help out if he's not making enough.
I forgot to mention that the fact I DID work kind of proved to him I wasn't lazy and since we started the business we haven't argued about me working.
Sugarcane, the question was about if he needed to lower his expectations of income and not rely on me for security, or if I needed to accept that this was a valid need and find a way to better meet that need because I thought working in the business wasn't enough. Figuring out how to handle me working, etc. is more of a future problem, but I wanted to ask since we are trying to conceive.
So my plan is:
1.) Get back/increase our savings through me working pt( I babysit and have an interview for a pt job at a fast food restaraunt). Or through increased business income in order for hubby to feel more secure.
2.) Do sales together, and make sure we're both "enthusiastic" in our POJA.
3.) Increase our spending in shopping, eating out, and socializing/enertainment because it's very important to him.
4.) We've agreed I'll stay home when we have kids and work pt after they're in school. I'll temporarily work if hubby can't make enough for some reason any time in between.
Let me know if there's anything I can do to improve the plan. Thanks for all your help!
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"e going to budget more for those things I listed above. He made it clear he wants me to work to help out if he's not making enough."
But did you make it clear to him that you might not be enthusiastic about that? Are you ENTHAUSIASTIC about each and every item OM the list? It sounds like he has a need for financial security, but that should be met by him getting a better job and working smarter rather than asking you to go work in a fast food restaurant.
It sounds like there is an expectation for you to sacrifice and that will be harmful for your marriage. That should be avoided at all costs.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You are enthusiastic about working in a fast food place? Really?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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PMB ... Can you ask your husband how he feels you can meet his needs for financial security?
Also, can you try and see where he stands here?
1) He has the expectation that since you entered into this marital agreement working, then you must continue to work to bring in income that contributes to the family, or
2) He really doesn't care how much income you bring in as long as his lifestyle will not change after you have children. He would like it if you helped him get as much income as possible before you have children.
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Financial Support
People often marry for the financial security that they expect their spouse to provide them. In other words, part of the reason they marry is for money.
But there are others who marry before financial security becomes much of a consideration. Yet, as years go by, if a spouse is unemployed, underemployed, the other spouse can become very frustrated and unhappy. The need for financial support seems to develop after they have been married for a while, especially after children arrive.
It may be difficult for you to know how much you need financial support, especially if you were recently married or if your spouse has always been gainfully employed. But what if, before marriage, your spouse had told you not to expect any income from him or her. Would it have affected your decision to marry? Or, what if your spouse could not find work, and you had to financially support him or her throughout life? Would that withdraw love units?
You may have a need for financial support if you expect your spouse to earn a living. But you definitely have that need if you do not expect to be earning a living yourself, at least during part of your marriage.
What constitutes financial support? Earning enough to buy everything you could possibly desire, or earning just enough to get by? Different couples would answer this differently, and the same couples might answer differently in different stages of life. That's why this need can be difficult to meet -- it can change over time.
Like many of these emotional needs, financial support is sometimes hard to talk about. As a result, many couples have hidden expectations, assumptions and resentments. How much money does your spouse have to earn before you feel frustrated about his or her paycheck? Your analysis will help you determine if you have a need for financial support, and if so, whether or not this need is being met.
Another point to remember is that when an important emotional need is met, love units are deposited in very large numbers. In other words, if someone were to meet this need for you, might you fall in love with that person? Does a person's income or wealth make him or her more attractive to you? And are those without money unattractive? If so, you probably have a need for financial support.
Last edited by Godgivmestrength; 08/08/12 04:00 PM.
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I seem to remember, though, that Dr Harley clarified this need on his radio show when it comes to men versus women. For example, he has said that men should support women and the money women earn should be kept for personal use. And most certainly, this poster should not work unless she is enthusiastic about it regardless of his expectations.
I will go search the archives when I get home because he is much more specific there.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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MelodyLane, that is also what I remember from the radio shows I've listened to. Usually the issue is that the wife feels an emotional need for financial support, and Dr. Harley has a budgeting strategy to help achieve it, and you are right the core of it is that they plan a needs budget and a wants budget, and his income needs to cover the needs budget, and if she has an income it can go toward the wants budget.
I can't remember Dr. Harley ever addressing the issue of a man with a high need for financial support, other than to mention that it does happen. I would think his approach would be different in this situation, since I'm sure most men aren't wanting to be completely supported by their wives.
I think the crucial point Dr. Harley makes is that if the top emotional needs are not the four intimate emotional needs, it is usually a sign that somebody is in withdrawal, and Dr. Harley would have them focus on the top four intimate emotional needs, anyway. My own personal opinion is I would see about solving this problem, first, and then solve financial issues from a position of being IN LOVE, using the Policy of Joint Agreement. All emotional needs have to be addressed using the POJA anyway.
But I really don't know what Dr. Harley would say; I haven't heard him specifically give any advice for a woman to meet a husband's need for financial support.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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The problem is I feel like my husband wants too much money and leans on me for feeling "secure" financially (his words). I feel like this thinking is wrong and should change. Well, to call his thinking wrong and to tell him he should change (or "should" do anything) is a Disrespectful Judgment, a Love Buster. But for him to call you "lazy" is also a Love Buster. I think Dr. Harley would say that you can't solve this until you make each other safe by agreeing to keep disrespect out of the conversation. I think he would suggest you negotiate it respectfully, using the Four Guidelines to Successful Negotiation: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_guide.htmlThe first step is to set ground rules to keep negotiation safe and pleasant. That means no Love Busters: Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgements, Angry Outbursts. But if you were counseling with Dr. Harley directly, he would be doing this in an environment of making sure you are meeting the Intimate Emotional Needs each week, following his Policy of Undivided Attention: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_attn.htmlIn his practice, Dr. Harley refused to counsel couples if they would not follow this.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Pmamabear,
Can you email Dr. Harley? Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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