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Then adultery is okay if one spouse doesn't agree with the other.

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AGG,
Is an open marriage- swinging morally acceptable if both parties consent to it?

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Let's drop this debate and get back to the purpose of this forum. This has gone on long enough on this poster's thread. Please keep your posts helpful and productive to the OP or refrain from posting. Thank you.


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AGG, for me, I define something as immoral if it in any way harms another individual. Melody might disagree with that, but that is the compass I use.

Therefore, things such as murder, rape, incest, theft, adultery, etc. would all be immoral because they cause harm to another person. Generally, this person is "innocent" in the sense that they did not ask for this action to be taken against them and had no choice in the matter.

If something does not harm another person, and all individuals involved in the action are consenting adults, I do not consider the issue universally immoral (though it may be considered immoral by certain individuals if it violates their own beliefs). Things that fall into the this category would premarital sex, drinking alcohol (or coffee or tea), etc.


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Originally Posted by MBsurvivor
Let's drop this debate and get back to the purpose of this forum. This has gone on long enough on this poster's thread. Please keep your posts helpful and productive to the OP or refrain from posting. Thank you.

Sorry. Saw this after I already posted.


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You're fine, writer. We will consider that the last post on the subject. Thank you


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Thank you! Although I was enjoying the debate for a while, I began to think that it was really going nowhere.

I believe that God loves us and gave us freedom of choice for a reason. He wants us to choose Him and also to choose His way. He does not want to enforce His way upon us. He sent his Son because He knew that we would not get it right, which begs the question, "What is right?" If there were an easy answer, we would know it by now. This is the reason for my original post... I do not believe that everyone who engages in extra- or pre-marital sex are necessarily 'wrong.' This is what causes the paradox in my mind and why the discussion of morality went on for so long. That leaves us all at the point that it must be a personal decision. For me, I cannot choose extra-marital sex and have a clear conscious. So, for me, it is not a good choice. However, we have freedom in Christ. This freedom is not a credit card to be spent wherever and whenever we like, but it does give us room for personal interpretation as long as our heart is in the right place. This is why Jesus condemned the Pharisees. They were doing everything by the book, but their hearts were not right. That does not mean that God does not love the Pharisees. I believe that Jesus used them as an example to teach us what He wants/needs from us... He needs our hearts. He needs us to be loving and forgiving of one another as well. Grace wins over legalism.

Look at I Cor. 6:12. "'Everything is permissible for me'�but not everything is beneficial. 'Everything is permissible for me'�but I will not be mastered by anything."
This explains the very moral paradox that we have been discussing. See also I Cor 9:19-23
"19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God�s law but am under Christ�s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."
Again, this does not give us license to go out and do anything that we want. Our goal in life should be to please God and to bring others into fellowship with Him. If our freedom is harming others, then it is no good to us or to anyone else. So once again, for me, it is not good to engage in extra-marital sex. Others, however, may be able to accomplish this without extended harm. I don't really see how, but it seems that some are able to accomplish it. Either way, as Christians, we are to be graceful and loving toward everyone in order to bring as many as possible back into a right relationship with God. That is the goal in life (atleast for me)


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Makes perfect sense to me smile.

AGG


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Lamby.
Back to your original post.
How is the online dating going?


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I've actually not been online for dating in a long time. I guess I've been working toooo much (full-time, working on master's degree, and taking care of the kids). Having trouble finding the time. Last time I went out with someone, it didn't work out mostly because of my work schedule and school obligations. Two more years to go for my master's, though. Then, I still have my year of internship. It'll be a long road, but hopefully well worth the effort!


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Update... I've been looking at ChristianMingle again. It seems like a good place to get started into dating again. I'm trying it out to see how it goes. It was suggested that I update my profile and state that I am interested in dating alot. Any suggestions on just how I could word that so it would be appealing. I want to get across that I am fun-loving and enjoy lots of activities. I am looking to the future and not the past (maybe I should just leave that out?)... I have a good loving relationship with my children, I am active in my church, etc...

Any help in this department would be appreciated!


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About a month ago (Sept 6 to be exact), prompted by SugarCane's post on this thread (here), I sent an email to the MB radio show asking for Dr. Harley's views on premarital sex and whether he knows if there's a negative correlation between premarital sex and marital ssatisifaction similar to the negative correlation associated with living together before marriage that he describes in Living Together Before Marriage: Compatibility Test or Curse?

I don't listen to the radio show very often and am wondering if anyone has heard him address this subject. With previous email inquiries of mine that he has answered, I did not receive any notification from Joyce that my questions would be answered and only found out about them from BrainHurts. I'm wondering if I missed the answer to the question, or if he hasn't answered it yet. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
About a month ago (Sept 6 to be exact), prompted by SugarCane's post on this thread (here), I sent an email to the MB radio show asking for Dr. Harley's views on premarital sex and whether he knows if there's a negative correlation between premarital sex and marital ssatisifaction similar to the negative correlation associated with living together before marriage that he describes in Living Together Before Marriage: Compatibility Test or Curse?

I don't listen to the radio show very often and am wondering if anyone has heard him address this subject. With previous email inquiries of mine that he has answered, I did not receive any notification from Joyce that my questions would be answered and only found out about them from BrainHurts. I'm wondering if I missed the answer to the question, or if he hasn't answered it yet. Thanks!


KL,

I just looked and didn't see it. I'm assuming they haven't answered it yet. Can you email Joyce back and ask her? I'm thinking it may have been lost.


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Good idea. It would be fascinating to hear his views on the subject.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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I sent another email to the radio show, and hopefully we'll hear something.

In the meantime, is anyone up for more discussion? I read this in Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders last night (this is from Energy Level in the section on the 5 tests for compatibility):

Quote
Since leisure activities and sex are two of the best ways to enjoy time together after marriage, incompatibility in these areas can make it very difficult for a couple to create a fulfilling and permanent romantic relationship.
It's clear that Dr. Harley says leisure activities and sex are important in marriage. What's not clear is whether or not he advocates sex before marriage.

Those who favor waiting for marriage to have sex may focus on the phrase "after marriage" to argue their point.

Those who don't may say that because Dr. Harley says incompatibilty in leisure activities or sex can be problematic in a marriage, it's a good idea to test compatibility in those areas before marriage.

I find myself somewhere in the middle. I personally don't think I would need to test sexual compatibility before getting married. If I had a strong enough emotional bond with a woman and all other indicators for a successful marriage were positive (including extroardinary care and radical honesty), I think sexual compatibility would be guaranteed. If I was in love with such a woman and she wanted to wait, I would have no problem with that, as long as the engagement period was short! smile

But just because I think sexual compatibility would be guaranteed, doesn't mean I couldn't enjoy sex before marriage. I think the symbiotic nature between emotional bonding and sexual bonding is a beautiful thing and can enhance a relationship even before marriage. Not to mention the mutual pleasure to be derived by both partners.

The question in my mind is when in a relationship would I feel comfortable taking it to the physical level. I like the increase in emotional bonding that comes from physical bonding. But if experienced too early, the emotional bonding can become so strong that red flags in the relationship might be missed, and I want to avoid that.

Thoughts?

(I also want to avoid a discussion of the morality of sex before marriage; I think that horse has been beat to death earlier on this thread smile )

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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
The question in my mind is when in a relationship would I feel But if experienced too early, the emotional bonding can become so strong that red flags in the relationship might be missed, and I want to avoid that.

Thoughts?


I think that nails it. Sex is such an intense bonding that it is tempting to overlook other important incompatibilities once a relationship becomes sexual. So what about waiting till you are confident that there are not going to be any serious red flags?

At some point in the relationship you will know that you can trust one another sufficiently to allow POJA to resolve any remaining issues.


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Originally Posted by lamby
It was suggested that I update my profile and state that I am interested in dating alot. Any suggestions on just how I could word that so it would be appealing.

I don't think you have to say anything like that. If a person is specifically looking for a long term relationship or "the one" it is usually spelled out in the profile or you can pretty much read between the lines. Don't overthink it. It's a dating site not an arranged marriage site.

Quote
I want to get across that I am fun-loving and enjoy lots of activities. I am looking to the future and not the past (maybe I should just leave that out?)... I have a good loving relationship with my children, I am active in my church, etc...

All this ^^^^ says enough about you but yes delete the past/future thing. Instead of saying stuff like I am funny, loving, etc, I like it when people give off the vibe of how they are because of what they DO vs telling people how they are. KWIM? For example, you saying you are in a loving relationship with your children...to me that sounds weird. What else would you say? I tolerate my kids? Give some specifics on the activities you like.


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We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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Thanks for the feed-back, Living Well and Black Raven! I thought folks had given up on this thread.

On my ChristianMingle profile, my Introduction line says:
I'm a busy single Mom who loves life. Even with such a full household, there is a part that is missing~ Could it be you?

Then, on the Essays section, I wrote:
ESSAYS
What I'd like to do on a first date...
Anything that allows us to spend time together to talk and get aquainted is nice. I just want to spend time together. smile

My past relationships have taught me...
No matter what the outcome, love is always worth the risk.

To me, being a Christian means...
Being in the world but not being "of the world". I'm far from perfect, but I do my best to live my life for God and not to please others. I have always looked for God's direction in my life and in my relationships.

I've been a Christian for ...
All my life.

In five years, I see myself
I am currently working in the laboratory in a large hospital. It is very busy and stressful work at times, but I enjoy it. I am also working on my master's degree. My goal is get my phD in Clinical Psychology and work with autistic and other special needs children.

My favorite Bible passage is...
Romans 8:28-39 It discusses the depth of God's love for us.
______________________________________________________________
I have photos of myself and my children. I am very open about who I am... Is there something about my profile that is a turn-off besides the number of children I have?


lamby

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Originally Posted by KeepLearning
I sent another email to the radio show, and hopefully we'll hear something.

In the meantime, is anyone up for more discussion? I read this in Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders last night (this is from Energy Level in the section on the 5 tests for compatibility):

Quote
Since leisure activities and sex are two of the best ways to enjoy time together after marriage, incompatibility in these areas can make it very difficult for a couple to create a fulfilling and permanent romantic relationship.
It's clear that Dr. Harley says leisure activities and sex are important in marriage. What's not clear is whether or not he advocates sex before marriage.

Those who favor waiting for marriage to have sex may focus on the phrase "after marriage" to argue their point.

Those who don't may say that because Dr. Harley says incompatibilty in leisure activities or sex can be problematic in a marriage, it's a good idea to test compatibility in those areas before marriage.

I find myself somewhere in the middle. I personally don't think I would need to test sexual compatibility before getting married. If I had a strong enough emotional bond with a woman and all other indicators for a successful marriage were positive (including extroardinary care and radical honesty), I think sexual compatibility would be guaranteed. If I was in love with such a woman and she wanted to wait, I would have no problem with that, as long as the engagement period was short! smile

But just because I think sexual compatibility would be guaranteed, doesn't mean I couldn't enjoy sex before marriage. I think the symbiotic nature between emotional bonding and sexual bonding is a beautiful thing and can enhance a relationship even before marriage. Not to mention the mutual pleasure to be derived by both partners.

The question in my mind is when in a relationship would I feel comfortable taking it to the physical level. I like the increase in emotional bonding that comes from physical bonding. But if experienced too early, the emotional bonding can become so strong that red flags in the relationship might be missed, and I want to avoid that.

Thoughts?

(I also want to avoid a discussion of the morality of sex before marriage; I think that horse has been beat to death earlier on this thread smile )


When I read that I took it to mean if someone has a high energy level for high impact activities they always will. Also that they will probably retain a high sex drive long term.

Even if you 'road test' sexual compatability before marriage, common experience tells us it doesn't really give a reliable test. Lots of people think they have good sex lives until kids and other life pressures come along.

Dr Hs test of judging general energy is more reliable, I'd say


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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I don't know the layout of ChristianMingle. Does it have an area where you list activities/hobbies, favorite things like food, music, vacation spots, etc?


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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