YES I am okay with it with a stipulation. That he freely tells me about any encounters (all he has told me have been very few and far between and negative) and that he either not work mid alone with a female (which he is too embarrassed to request) or that I come sleep at his work during any mids (also embarrassing but he rarely does mids anymore since he has senority)

I really don't want to comment much... because I am new here. But just from reading and trying to understand, I will say if you have chosen to plan B. Do it properly. Brain Hurts is always handy with the links. If you are moving back, still keep no contact and do visitation with an IM.

Have you seen this?
Read my lips:No contact means no contact

Yup, the love buster of your AOs. Have you read love busters? YOU ARE IN CONTROL OF YOUR RE-ACTIONS TO ANYTHING. If you don't accept that, and take responsibility, you'll never get to personal recovery. I stood right where you are about the AOs I did for a looooong time, not wanting to accept I had control. And my guess is, you have AOs towards your kids or around your kids as well (I did). I never thought there could be another way until I truly got the MB principles, but now I'm working on my own reactions and taking responsibility for ME, which is what personal recovery is in my book--becoming a better person despite the infidelity that destroyed your marriage.

On to the "in recovery" bit...you've admitted when you and your H tried reconciliation that you hadn't implemented the steps to recovery properly. You can try and say that is your H's fault, but you were love busting (not just the AOs but DJs and who knows what else). And you hadn't been absolutely clear what your requirements were and stuck to them. So I think the suggestion, since you still love your husband, that you go and try it again, right this time, is perfectly reasonable and something you should consider.

For my sake I am going to step back and look at much of the advice I have been given to see what I end up with.


I agree with HHH BUT I am starting to feel that I WANT to recover myself in NM not here. Him in our house with our dogs in our routine and me here in a rental doesn't feel right anymore. It was good for the summer but I'm not sure it is good long term.






RE: me deciding that I want to file and SH asking me to up the plan b instead


This is SH advice...but as always he ask "can you do this?"...I have been at this for a long time...I have to decide if I wan't to do this,what are my options, and would I be any better off choosing another option such as divorce.

Steve also got me out the depression I had fallen into..me saying "this is not fair". His response, "lots of things in life are not fair...you must respond with "what are my options." Up to this point I NEVER had to be told that.

RE: me deciding how to carry on out of state or move back...



I see that MEL has engaged me again in ME doing more for recovery. Sunny ...the part about leave the dog alone he will come back...I should have ignored Mel...I need to let the dog go...and me rehashing things to answer Mel is not helping.


Oh there is some light from MEl !!! Too bad she later diverted back.


Obviously we are back in try to save the marriage mode in that above dialogue.

Back to my dilemma of options and moving on..
I want to walk away knowing I did all that I could on my part...

Next I posted my letter to MB radio. After listening the last three days...I was thinking DR. H might say that maybe I won't want to stay with this "new guy" and offer some advice of how to move on. Right now I feel I am paying the consequences more than he.

Okay here we go again. I am going to stop right here and put an end to this. Suppose Mel is correct and my H is still in an A with the OW. If an affair is going to die it will die within 2 years after it has been exposed and they have freedom to be together.

If I file for a D my husband will have to get his own place. He will be free to pursue her, I will be moving on and safe from any VDS. I can go back to school to get a better paying degree, I can work any hours I please without regard to being available to him around his mandatory strange work hours. I can quit giving and giving to a black hole....I can relax. I can also be upfront with more people about what happened. Church leaders know, family long distance know, supervisors at his work know...but the everyday people I interact with DON'T KNOW. Which puts a lot of burden on me and off of him. That has to end.

So if he is still in an affair this path of divorce seems good to me...it will either die or not die. If he has decided he wants a new lifestyle...he is free to pursue it...but him having an A and then saying hey honey I want to recover with you but you have to drop your lifestyle and choose mine...is not an option I want to choose. He actually did say this to me. He said why do we have to be spiritual anymore? My dad and his wife are not and they are happy...why can't we be like them? My answer..is that he can choose that way ...but I am not leaving my faith...nor am I going to lead my teens to leave the faith.

Divorces are reversible but the years I might continue to waste making myself available to recovery can not be reversed.

I know a couple with great kids and grand kids. They divorced after kids finished HS and got remarried years later.

I have an aunt who struggled with a WH for years and years. Their kids and grandchildren are a mess. You don't learn good things from strife or neglect in the home.

Have you considered that part of the reason for NC is not only to avoid resumption of the affair but it helps the BS to heal by preventing triggering etc?

You say you are OK with contact but then my read of your other thread on the "In Recovery" forum is that you are still very angry about contact (obviously, what BS wouldn't be) and you and your H still argue about it.

You continue to talk about your H being foggy -- again, my read of your interactions with your H is that you are either berating him, trying to talk him out of his fog and or trying to convince him to talk to SH.

This is NOT MB.

I can't help but to think there is a parallel between a poster's reactions/communications to board members to how you are communicating things to Steve, your H, etc.

In short, this is a mess and my guess is SH doesn't fully understand that your H still sees OW regularly at work and that you are still being triggered by this. It wouldn't be a leap for me to say this -- you seem to indicate in your other thread that SH wants you to have minimal contact with your H and just remind him thru a IM the reason for your "Plan B", I doubt he has any idea that you are continuing to lovebuster and fight with each other in unnecessary and unproductive communications.

Blueskies, not trying to offend, but it is clear to almost every poster who has responded to you that they are confused about what plan you are following, where you are in recovery, whether there is still contact -- these are items that shouldn't take pages and pages to get to the bottom to. Which leads me to ask, are you on any AD's? I saw that you mentioned depression at some point. You know that Dr Harley recommends ADs to a BS to help them think clearly and execute a plan, right? This may help you.

You come across as very angry - and while you want to put the blame on the advice you are being given, the way that posters are posting to you, I would like to gently remind you that you are most likely REALLY reacting this way because of the situation you are in and hopefully this helps you to make some changes and come up with a different plan.

Good luck.

Suggestion: if you want me to leave your thread, which I am perfectly happy to do, then stop quoting me and talking about me. If you are going to ignore someone, then why not just do that?

Does posting this way help you focus on what you want to accomplish? Does this critique of another MBer help you come up with a workable plan?

Very well said, Susie; I agree with your observations. This poster has been told repeatedly that her posts are confusing and meandering, but when asked for clarification gets angry and defensive. It is impossible to help such a person because her situation cannot be understood.

I have to wonder if Steve even has an accurate presentation of her situation after reading these incomprehensible posts. I suspect she is angry and argumentative with her husband just as she is with board members who have tried to help her.

Nothing that she is doing is even remotely akin to Marriage Builders so I have no idea what she has told Steve. For example, her husband still works with the OW. That is not in line with Marriage Builders. Everyone knows recovery is IMPOSSIBLE under those circumstances.

And secondly, her Plan B is not Plan B at all; which means she has been in Plan "C" for a long time. She talks about the POJA and then tells us she expects her husband to adopt her spiritual dictates. There is just nothing here that resembles the MB program. But then who knows what she wants anyway, because it is impossible to understand her situation. I think she likes being "vague." And that is sad, because she is the only one who suffers from that tactic.

Ending contact with the OW is the first step after an affair. Like Dr Harley says, you can't take the second step until you have taken the first step; recovery is IMPOSSIBLE unless all contact ends. This explains why your husband never would make the effort to re-engage; he is in a state of perpetual withdrawal.

I was not intending to sound sarcastic. I was surprised as I went through pasting and see this from her and then I wandered why she flipped back to go home and POJA (it takes 2 to POJA). I suppose as long as we talk about her or I quote from her she can defend herself. I accidently read her post about her right to post if quoted. I am really trying not to read her and get upset.

Based on my experience:
So WHEN my doctor told me NO MATTER WHAT you do you are going to miscarry your baby. You lost a LOT of blood...It doesn't matter if you empty the dishwasher or stay in bed it will end in miscarry. If you do not let us DNC you there is a chance of bleeding to death at home. You must sign a release letting us know you understand this complication before we will let you leave.

I stayed in bed for 5 months and ignored everyone doctors, nurses, some family and friends !!! Not one person told me I was absolutely doing the right thing except another friend who was in bed after loosing one twin.

My daughter is now 15 and smart, athletic, and beautiful on the outside and inside. I get so many compliments about how great my kids are how loving, how helpful to others, hard workers.

I don't think the person that you guys backed into a corner and made super defensive could raise children like that. I mean it is not like I sent them off to school and they learned that from other people. I home schooled them for a good portion of their schooling. All I know is that I have no other way with H and AO is not something I want to model to my kids. So I took the advice of when to call it quits...because it is a better alternative.

Can no one see that my husband may be in a fog not because he is having an affair on me but on GOD?????? Maybe this is what SH sees that you don't see. I am just guessing. Yes I tell both God and SH openly my mistakes. I have hid nothing, plus my husband tells SH his side.

Recently many of the board tries to tell me all that I did wrong...not a perfect plan B or C or H in their opinion.

SH told me this time out of state will be an emotional roller coaster. For the first time in 3 years I wake up and wonder if maybe after I left the OW went after him. Now everyone holds it up to me like it is a reoccurring trigger. Actually everyone bringing up caused it to be a trigger for about 2 days.

And folks say things like I am sure he will be upset about leaving the house, etc. He is not like that at all.

I feel that people who are good at avoiding DJ and LB in their life should respond differently. I am starting to wonder if maybe I am asking for support from some folks who don't have those installed in their lives? I have NEVER heard SH or Dr. H or Joyce talk in a demanding, condemning, judgmental tone like I feel from the some posters.

I am ashamed of myself for taking it so hard, for getting so emotional, for getting so defensive, for having AO on the board. Obviously this is coming to the point it is doing more harm than good. My dd said last night..."Mom you were doing so well...what happened?" Me: " I posted and these responses are upsetting me" DD"Then why are you reading them?" ME (to myself): " What if they are right? and I don't have a brain?" DD: "I don't think they are helping you, you don't look okay."

I think it is time to stop the board. Good bye.

What is your goal?
What do you want to accomplish?
What is your workable plan?

blueskies, what is your goal, here? How can we help you? If you come to this site with Plan Blueskies, you're going to get seasonsed posters who have been in your shoes telling you why your way may not work. Take the advice or leave it.

It isn't necessary to get into a debate with veteran posters who are trying to help you. You don't like the advice? IGNORE IT. You've got a handy button on your computer to aid you in that action.

You do not appear to be interested in seasoned, hard-won knowledge so much as the imminent gratification of doing things your own way, hence your thread title.

As far as I can see, you appear to be headed for a train wreck. I hope not, but I've been here for a few years, and I've lost count of the number of people who have come back here after attacking us, admitting that they were wrong. Their way DIDN'T WORK. (And, FWIW, many of them have apologized to MelodyLane, bless her heart )

Here's why I think you're skidding into the ditch: Uh-huh. That didn't stop him from hooking up with her in the first place, did it. = Lover's spat. Dress up an adulterous pig in a fancy certified high-security, special, 'sssh we can't discuss our work' job. Guess what it still is? Yep. An adulterous pig. AND your sitch may be even more dangerous because your WH is in that type of job. There is a 'members only club' atmosphere in jobs like that. The employees can't discuss their jobs outside of work. And they want to. So..who do they talk to? THEIR CO-WORKERS. When we see someone talking about 'self recovery' it is typically within the confines of going into a dark Plan B, where there is no communication with the wayward, or ending the marriage and healing from that loss, and coming out from the other side a better, healed person. You haven't indicated (unless I've missed it - and if so, I apologize) that you have gone to a dark Plan B or have filed for divorce. So people may be responding to you, assuming that you are striking out on your own, and are posting under that assumption.

You're giving us sketchy stuff to work with, blueskies. How would you like us to help you? Oh, and by the way: I appreciate that you've counseled with Steve. I have a lot of admiration for him.

When you come to the message boards on this site you are getting the advice of the people who have been in the trenches. Read and educate yourself. Accept the advice or discard it. Take Steve's counsel and the advice of seasoned posters and fashion your attack for saving your marriage.

Or disregard the posts that seem unsavory to you. I'm sure this one will be on that list.

That's your call, Big Girl.

Really sorry this was the case. However, I think part of the problem is you are not listening. I suggested you start a new thread with a summary, but you wouldn't. You just went on confusing everyone and then getting upset that no one could understand you. I hope when you calm down you can come back for help again. Good luck to you.

In my opinion, this approach works for any one of us who finds ourself anxiously 'spinning our wheels' and seemingly unable to gain traction when faced with a difficult dilemma.

What is MY goal?
What do I want to accomplish?
What is MY workable plan?

In my opinion, it is a pretty good idea to re-ask ourselves these questions every so often. Especially when we do not seem able to make headway during a storm.

Are you flailing about? Anxious?
Stop and reassess your goal.