I think you are right. What I need to read are some success stories where a wife has returned after leaving home. I am working on myself and reading the Bible. Even though some may disagree with me, I am 100% committed to making this marriage work. I will not accept abusive behavior. But I will be loving, kind, patient, and do what I know is required of me. My wife is not a hateful person. She is hurt, confused, and influenced right now. I have no way of contacting her so it will be hard to show her that I love her, but I believe God will give me opportunities. I will wait on those opportunities. In the meantime, I will work on myself.

Nothing. She was coming home everyday after work cooking and staying with me until it was time to go to bed. I did not ask her to come home so she got tired of that. She was hurt. It is all my fault. The PI has seen nothing. Now she may be open to seeing someone now that she has taken this stance. But someone did not make her take this stance...or someone did; me.

I need a miracle now. I need something outside of me to do something to change her thinking or to make her think clearly. I am not giving up hope yet. I am fasting all day today and maybe for the week. She is coming back home. And when she does, she will find a better husband.

That is unrealistic and irrational; feelings are not truth. Your true love cannot force someone to change against her will. That is unrealistic. "Unconditional love" leads to neglect and abuse, just as Dr Harley states, as you have personally experienced.

And while Dr Harley is not a theologian, neither is romulus. If you disagree with his biblically supported essay against unconditional love, please email him directly with your challenge. He spent a great deal of time substantiating his views with scripture, so it is not fair to dismiss him so with cavalierly "he is just a psychologist, not a pastor or theologian." Email him and make your case.

How about emailing Dr Harley and describing her behavior? She sounds like she has a personality disorder and he may be able to help you with this. He charges nothing for the email.

As ML suggested, you can email Dr Harley and get his advice at no charge.
That is a very good deal and you are getting a $500 opinion.
What do you have to lose?
You need to give him your first post.

What's his email again?

Send it to mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. He will answer your email on the radio and/or he may call or email you back.

It's best to include your phone number if you want to speak with him. That way he can ask you questions to give you a good professional
Opinion

Romulus, can you clarify your statement about the mmpi?

You said nobody scores that high. That would be an incorrect statement, but I'll clarify when I know what you meant.

Huh? MMPI? What are you talking about?

Did your wife quit going to church?

Hi Rommulus - just reading over your posts. Here is my take.

Your wife wants nothing more to do with you because *from her perspective* your relationship has been unfulfilling at best, hurtful and even abusive at worst. Until/unless she has reason to feel that this will change, she WILL NOT come back to your marriage. This is her reality. Though you may feel otherwise about the quality of your previous relationship - I suggest you accept her reality as her reality. It is as real and valid for her as yours is for you. What have you done to show her that coming back to you will be any different for her than it always has been?

In my opinion your posts are FULL disrespectful judgement towards your wife. You may not see how your behavior has been abusive, in fact you seem to see mostly just the good you've done her. Yet I see tons of examples of invalidation, neglect and disrespect. I can imagine how much more actually comes across to her. Who would want to live with that - especially if when threatened with dissolution all you do is pile on more and more disrespectful judgments?

I agree with other posters that your wife is acting very much like someone who is having some sort of an affair. People told me the same thing when I first came on this forum and just like you I said, "No way, not my wife." I was wrong. She was. My failure to recognize that and respond appropriately wasted a lot of valuable time and greatly delayed our eventual recovery. I'll leave the advice about affair busting to other posters.

There has been some mention of your wife being 'unstable' or having a psychiatric diagnosis. Unless you have firm, objective, professionally-based evidence of this (ie a formal diagnosis from a medical provider) I would resist this idea. What you describe doesn't sound like mental illness to me - no more so than the mental illness exhibited by other wayward spouses on the drug of their affair. Funny (to me) that you joked that you thought your wife was 'possessed.' I remember thinking the exact same thing. It give me chills to recall. She was possessed... with the idea of getting away from what for her was a toxic marriage and in to something else that might make her happy.

After reading LoveBusters, get and read Fall in love, stay in love. In my opinion His Needs, Her Needs is not enough. Interestingly my wife and I read HNHN a few years before our breakdown. I wish we'd read FILSIL instead.*

Action items to consider -

#1) Listen to and accept your wife's version of your marriage and respond appropriately.
#2) Tell her you are finally getting it, you finally understand what would prompt her to want out of your marriage and you don't blame her. You want to understand more and you are committed to change. Tell her you can promise her one thing if she re-engages with you. She'll never have to go back to your dysfunction, unsatisfying old marriage.
#3) Get and read LoveBusters ASAP
#4) Get and read Fall In Love, Stay In Love

BWS

I disagree he should resist this idea. This is a factor that could make a huge difference in his ability to save his marriage and ignorance will not help. Why would he resist determining the truth? He was told to write Dr Harley and describe her behavior so he could get guidance. If his wife does have a mental illness Dr Harley is a licensed clinical psychologist who is qualified to give him guidance and direction. His wife does not sound like our garden variety wayward which is why he was told to do this.

Because a licensed clinical psychologist cannot diagnose a third party.

Rom's situation is incredibly painful to me because my situation was so similar. My XH married me because I was clueless (from another country in my case). He was incredibly controlling and once I had the confidence to push back, told me I had a mental illness. It was all part of the gaslighting that went on whilst he had a series of affairs.

Read his description of what his wife said about why she left. She sounds very sane to me.

Dr Harley can and DOES tell people when he suspects their spouses have a mental illness. He gives them guidance on getting the appropriate help for their spouse. From reading his description of her behavior it sounds like much more going on here than this board is equipped to help with. Even if she is having an affair, her behavior is very different from what we typically see. [the behavior of adulterers does mimic mental illness] A spouse should not "resist" exploring solutions if there is a possibility of a mental illness.

If this poster is gaslighting his spouse, Dr Harley will see right through it. He only stands to GAIN by seeking advice from Dr Harley.

romulus007 - to clarify I absolutely think you should seek help from Dr Harley and in no way meant to persuade you otherwise. Nor do I suggest you resist seeking the help of any other medical or mental health professionals.

What I do suggest you resist is explaining away your wife's behavior as being caused by a mental disorder *until an objective third party who can get all the relevant info can advise you that this is the case.* In other words, be careful just chalking all this up to your wife being 'crazy.' You are in no position to diagnose your spouse. Don't disregard the possibility she may be mentally ill, but leave that determination to professionals. There is great danger in dismissing your wife as 'crazy' or 'unstable' and thus not responding correctly because you don't understand what is really going on.

*To me* your wife's behavior does not sound like mental illness any more significant than that many spouses experience during the breakdown of their marriage. It would be uncommon for a woman your wife's age to have her first schizophrenic break. You've known her for 11 years. Have you had much reason to suspect she is truly mentally ill? I mean aside from the disrespectful remarks you've made about her behavior over the years.

Here are some of your quotes

"Her complaint with me was that I did not show love for her and that I would look at her in disgust...and there may be some truth to that. Sometimes she would say things that was SO off the wall that I would instinctively look at her like, "seriously??" But then I would catch myself and just respond. But the "look" would make her feel like she was dumb. So her complaint to me was that she felt dumb around me and that I did not like her as a person."

"Me telling her that sometimes she is detached from reality. I would tell her in a loving way, but she is very thin-skinned, and very self-centered..."

These are huge red flags for me - about your behavior... not hers.

You've heard lots of perspectives on this thread. There is probably something we can all offer. I may be on the wrong track for you - which would not be too surprising considering the limited information that can be gathered on an internet forum. It is up to you to figure that out since you have way more information than we do.

BWS

Who ARE these people? They downplay the fact that your wife left you at the hospital because she was just "in her feelings"??

And another question, please - this has been bugging me: WHY did you walk almost twenty miles after leaving the hospital? What about getting a taxi, a bus or calling a friend or family member?

This is what he says in an earlier posting:


I seem to remember that he refers to getting a ride home too but cannot find that so maybe I am wrong.