I can see why he is, my question is why aren't you more skeptical?

Some rules apply to you, and your situation, and others don't? If 2 people are unmarried, and they are living together, and then get married, they have about an 80% chance that they will be divorced. Why didn't you treat this like a new relationship? You two could have lived separately, while recreating a relationship, and seeing if you wanted to remarry. You two are renters ATM, due to the fact that you are living together while unmarried.

Scotland,

re: "Some rules apply to you, and your situation, and others don't?"

I don't believe I am exempt from the rules. But I also don't think I'm violating the spirit of the rules. In fact, it is the very rules and the laws of my Church around marriage, divorce and adultery that have helped keep me committed to my marriage. And I have learned through this process that these seemingly restrictive laws are life-giving, not limiting!

I am not reinterpreting the rules to suit my fancy, and neither am I advocating shacking up. I don't believe in it, and I don't intend to do it. My ex-wife and I dated for 8 years before marrying, and we did not live together first. We never considered doing that, and we are both very happy that waited till marriage before building our nest together.

I invited my ex-wife permanently back into the family home only when we committed to recovering our marriage. If I wanted to remarry someone other than my ex-wife, the Church would not allow it unless my first marriage was annulled. It was not annulled. Remarrying someone else would be adultery, because in the Church's eyes I'm still bound to the person I exchanged vows with. I will take care of the formality of "paperwork" soon, and we will follow my priest's directive of RENEWING our vows. Notice its renewing vows, not exchanging them. In the Church's eyes, we are still husband and wife. My priests words, not mine.

Why do you keep referring to her as you EX-w then? And when you "dated" your GF, were you not also committing adultery? Or should I gloss over that fact as well? Which is it? Were you free to date, or weren't you?

It's your life.
But as an outsider reading your posts it seems this is happening way too fast.
She left the country and abandoned her family for this guy, gets dumped and comes home.
You welcome her with open arms and want to just close that chapter and move on.
I understand church marriage.
But she doesn't even care about it. Didn't she profess to be Muslim? Did you tell your priest that she left the country and converted to Islam?

How can you POJA that into your marriage?
Will your kids worship the prophet?

Jedi,

I see where you are coming from. Just to clarify, her affair partner did not dump her. She left him after learning of the other wife and of his controlling ways. He is a selfish and egotistical man.

I do not take anything she did lightly. No one who has been cheated on does. Yet, those who really profess to value marriage will make supernatural efforts to preserve the union and improve it, even in the face of calamity. There is a reason this section of the forum is called "Surviving an Affair," right?

Yes, I did welcome her back with open arms. Isn't that what the father of the prodigal son did? (It is the brother in that parable who misses out on the beauty of reconciliation.) She has taken all the necessary steps for reconciling, including admitting the transgression, asking for forgiveness, showing contrition, and taking concrete steps to atone for her mistake. And as far as my taking her back goes, I set conditions based on MB principles for her return. I did not invite her in the house until she met them and I felt safe. It took a month of work to reach that point. Only then did I feel safe.

She does care about Church marriage, and does feel a deep sense of shame and regret for what she has done. Since she has returned she has not practiced the Muslim faith.

Your point about POJA is on target. She is not practicing the Muslim faith, but I worry that she will resent me or feel a void without it. At the same time, I have told her I can't abide it in our marriage because of its origin (plus the fact I don't believe in it or approve her leaving our Catholic faith for it). This is the only concern I have moving forward.

well then your opinion is a Love Buster and out of line with POJA.

Has she taken a polygraph? I doubt she dumped him because he was married. Her actions show she doesn't care about marriage vows.

I think her Taker is still in control and you are making a mistake.

If you want me to keep my opinion to myself I will but why dont you call Dr Harley on the Radio Show for guidance? You dont have anything to loose

I suppose there is a good reason this post of mine was ignored?

I'll address it now:

I have called her my ex since we divorced in August. So I am being consistent with posts I've made since that time. Honestly since she we have reconciled, she is a wife to me now. That will be solidified when we renew vows, which will happen as soon as possible.

As far as dating goes, once the divorce went through, my plan was to seek an annulment if I met someone since there were zero indications that my wife wanted to reconcile. Things were dead for the past 4 or 5 years. I had finally resigned myself to acceptance that she would not return and would not try and restore the relationship we had for so many years. I did not want to live without a companion. An annulment would have enabled me to marry again. But once my wife came back into the picture, and that seemed a miracle to me and to her, I knew that I was obligated to stand up for our vows. I only accepted that obligation when I saw that she was remorseful and fully invested in making this a marriage of true, romantic love. I am thankful to God that I did.

I will call in to the show. What are the hours to call in?

You email the show at this address an tell them your story and you would like to be caller. mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

Thank you, TranquilDark.

So, you don't consider you having dated, while you didn't have an annulment, as adultery?

When I asked about you calling her your ExW, and you answered that that was what you started calling her after your divorce, and you wanted to remain constant, I meant why did you BEGIN calling her that if you didn't believe religiously that you two were actually divorced? Is it possible that you wanted to justify you starting to date by calling her you ExW?

See, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this because you are trying to say that you and your ExW(Since you are divorced, I am completely comfortable calling her that) don't fit into the renter mold, because you are still married, and now living together, and you will be renewing your vows, not getting remarried, but at the same time, you justify your dating, after getting a legal, and not religious divorce, because had you found someone whom you wanted to marry in the future, you could get an annulment. Does that mean that you are okay with anyone "dating" to scope out a new potential spouse for their future, because they can annul their current marriage?

Don't get me wrong. IMHO, I believe that you were well within your right to date, after you were legally divorced, of course that is because I don't hold to the same set of religious standards that you do. I am not trying to argue with you about that, but instead, I am trying to show you that your logic is flawed, and fluid. It seems to change to suit your situation, and that rubs me the wrong way. It's your life though, all I am doing is trying to point out things that may help you improve yourself.

BTW, I believe that the biggest lesson you can teach other BSs through this situation right now is that you shouldn't date until and unless you are completely ready to close the chapter on your previous marriage.

Scotland,

re: "Does that mean that you are okay with anyone "dating" to scope out a new potential spouse for their future, because they can annul their current marriage?"

Yes. It is far from the ideal, but better than living as a perpetual bachelor. My wife left me for someone else and divorced me. There were no signs of her getting out of the fog. I met someone and had I planned to pursue marriage I would have had to get it annulled.

re: "I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this because you are trying to say that you and your ExW(Since you are divorced, I am completely comfortable calling her that) don't fit into the renter mold, because you are still married, and now living together, and you will be renewing your vows..."

My wife and I will remarry very soon. As soon as arrangements can be made. But she has been out of the house and away from the kids for too long. It's time for her to come home now that she's agreed to conditions that will make me safe and strengthen our marriage. Since we are not legally married, you may call me a renter, but I reject that label. I've never had a renter's mentality about my job, my parenthood, or my marriage. If I were a renter, I would not take my wife back after all she has done. I would discard her and move on to the next with no trouble at all. But I do believe in vows, I do believe in forgiveness (especially when there is a contrition and atonement involved), and I do believe in second chances. Dr. Harely has written about many cases where the second time around is much better than the first time around. My ex-wife and I are on that path I believe.

But I am glad that you and Jedi have brought this up, since we have to daughters. To alleviate any confusion with them, we will speed up plans to renew the vows and tie the knot legally.

re: "BTW, I believe that the biggest lesson you can teach other BSs through this situation right now is that you shouldn't date until and unless you are completely ready to close the chapter on your previous marriage."

Really? Wow. I think the biggest lesson that can be learned from this is to fight for your marriage and even when it appears to be dead, there is still hope. I applied MB principles in my fight, and the recovery of my marriage is a tribute to that. THAT is the enduring lesson.

The recovery of a marriage is a beautiful and life-giving event, and the lesson that you glean from this is don't move on until you're ready to close the chapter? Really? I respect your posts on this site, Scotland. I have learned much from them. But if the enduring lesson you see from my situation then I think that is a pharisaical take on my 14 month journey to hell and back.

x 2

Have you taken any steps to protect yourself and your children should your exWW decide to divorce again?

Your situation has lot of

Don't get me wrong, it is always great when a marriage is recovered using MB. It is even spectacular when there is a remarriage, as in the case of Johnstwin. I am NOT baulking at that.

Do you or don't you agree that it may have been too soon for you to begin dating, seeing as you so readily ended that relationship, and began this new one?

And I believe you may have misunderstood my question about people dating to find someone else. But that question isn't important right now anyways.

Is your ExW a buyer or a renter?

What steps have been taken to ensure that she will not leave you and your family again? Does she have strict EPs in place?

Don't get me wrong, I don't want you rushing into a remarriage with your ExW just to show us exactly how much of a buyer you are, you need to take time with this, and ensure that you are doing this for the right reasons, and that you will protect yourself from this type of damage again.

Yes, Scotland, in hindsight I got into dating too fast. I wish I had never dated. But hindsight is 20/20. As I said, my wife had shown no signs of love for years. There was absolutely no evidence to suggest that she would want to come back. She had said repeatedly that she did not love me and never would again. Had I known there was a chance I would not have dated anyone. I suppose it would have been wise to wait till she had married her affair partner, which was their plan, or wait for her relationship with him crumble before I started dating myself.

Regarding is my exwife a renter or a buyer. Well, besides her affair partner, I am the only man she has ever been with. We were high school sweethearts and married for 20 years. She has demonstrated a buyers mentality all the years I've known her until the affair began. She is out of the fog and I pray ready to be a buyer again.

EP's:

She sent her no contact letter to the POSOM and has had no contact with him. I also spoke with him on SKYPE and told him never to contact her again. I used threatening words.

No more passwords on cell phone or computer. No social networking. I can check her phone and computer anytime I wish. And I do it often.

We spend 15 hours a week together just the two of us.

We are reading Harley's books and filling out the questionnaires.

Neither of us will have friends of the opposite sex. This is a change for us.

We are working on learning our needs and meeting them, and avoiding LB's.

POJA and Radical Honesty are also in place. (Her Muslim religion is the only sticking point here, although she has not practiced it since returning to our home.)

You are holding people to your own personal religious standards.

Which is wrong.

Religion is a personal decision. What it right for one is right for that one person. Your standards are right for you because you are making the decision for yourself.

As long as a BS waits to be divorced there is no reason to say he should not date.

As to calling a unfaithful wife the same logic applies. What the BH wants to call his WW is up to him an whatever he wants to call her is the best name.

WW, XW, FWW, EXW, S(*t, Wh**e, etc, etc, are all ok.

In my religion when you get a civil divorce the church says in their eyes you are still married. You can not get remarried to your EX in the church because you still are married according to them. So to be legally married in the courts eyes you have to have stand up before a judge.

No religion is without sin. Read religious history. Last I knew churches are still run by people. When is the last time God said mass?

Have you seen these?

Conflicts of Faith (Part 1) #1
Conflicts of Faith (Part 1) #2
Conflicts of Faith (Part 2)

Thank you, BrainHurts. Those articles are very helpful. I will ponder them. I will also write to Dr. Harley since my situation has a different wrinkle to it.

Fantastic, let us know what he says.

Here are some good clips about remarrying.
Radio Clip
Radio Clip on Remarrying a Spouse
Radio Clip on Remarriage