That is where I would begin. Just because she balks at first, doesn't mean you don't stop trying. Just keep telling her that these are the steps that will protect me from another affair.


Then that is where I would start. It is inappropriate for her to have friends of the OS.


Right. You let her know that this is what it will take to recover your marriage. These are extraordinary precautions to prevent another affair. They are not negotiable.

Let me put this another way. She just had one affair with a "friend" of the opposite sex. Unless she stops that practice, she is bound to have more. Are you ok with that?

By the way, that is ALL affairs start.

And flirting is a form of COURTING that invites affairs. That is very destructive to marriage and profoundly disrespectful to you. Is that ok with you?

So, when she says, "I will agree to THIS but not to THAT," what do I do?

You put it to her in the form of the question you were already provided,

"Dear, do you want overly personal relationships with Mr Platonic et al, or a marital relationship with Mr SBT2?"

Yeah, you might waste weeks getting there, but that will be the crux.

REPLY TO ML, RE: "is that acceptable to you?'

It is not. However, she can legitimately point to my neglect of the marriage, my rejection of her in the past, my ignoring of the 'warning signs' as having been a tacit green-light for her poor boundaries with men (NOT for the affair itself, I get the distinction).

Its true, I neglected our marriage for years. I bear a tremendous responsibility in creating the conditions conducive to what she did. I even had a male friend of mine tell me, "Dude, the way you were acting, I thought you WANTED her to have an affair."

That cut me to the bone. I certainly did NOT want what happened, but NOW I can step back and see how my actions/neglect could give an unbiased observer that impression. My wife said, "I tried to get you to see, but I gave up."

In essence, part of her poor-boundaries/flirtatiousness was built by me. She will say that's 'who she is' and I'll have to 'live with it' or words to that effect.

I've acknowledged my neglect/rejection, and Im ashamed of it, and sadly she will use that as as weapon to reduce/decrease the amount of 'change' SHE has to effect in order to save the M. When she says she's willing to 'work on us,' I think that means that IM supposed to do most/all of the 'working.'

Here is the article about friends of the opposite sex: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8119_friends.html

You are responsible for your part of the bad marriage, but you are not responsible for her pisspoor boundaries around men.

Even so, it does not matter if satan himself is responsible for her pisspoor boundaries, what matters is that this changes if you want to recover your marriage.


Yes, and she did much, much worse by having an affair. So you are both fault. So what? Focusing on who is responsible is a distraction from resolving the problems so can we get onto a plan of recovery now?


That is what is called a freeloaders approach that will end your marriage. If her "friendships" are more important than your marriage, she is telling you she doesn't care.



That will not work, though. It is up to you to lead your marriage out of the ditch, not her. So far, it sounds like the drunk is doing all the driving and your marriage won't recover that way. You have lowered the bar so low that your wife is only living down your expectations.

If you want to save your marriage, you are going to have to raise the bar and do certain things. And that means holding your wayward wife accountable to the steps that are designed to prevent another affair.

Otherwise, you are headed to divorce. Do you realize this?

Your pre-affair marriage may not have been perfect. You BOTH bear the responsibility for the state of your marriage then. Yes, you may have been making mistakes, treating her poorly and not meeting her needs. But it is her responsibility to communicate this to you effectively (not give up.)

Instead, SHE decided to have the A. It is 100% her responsibility.

Analogy: many people are poor. Some poor people chose to steal, which they know is wrong. Not all poor people steal. It is the choice of the individual, and a poor choice of reaction to being poor!

So you will both have to make changes to improve the marriage. And she will have to take the Extraordinary Precautions to end her affair and prevent her having another in the future. BTW, you should be following the same precautions. They are what protect marriages.

Keep in mind that part of the reason your wife is unwilling to work on recovery is due to your approach. She gladly does nothing because you have enabled her to a great degree. You have kept her fogged out by hiding her secret for her. And you have made it easy for her by taking on all the blame for her affair.

It is YOUR ATTITUDE THAT IS THE PROBLEM. You have given her unconditional "forgiveness" and have greatly harmed your chance of recovery.

Check this out:

here

Dr Bill Harley to another wayward wife who wanted to keep her opposite sex "friends"

here

This is what I need to hear. I don't have a lot of self-confidence, and I usually take too much blame on myself for all sorts of things.

The help I'm getting here is stiffening my backbone on this. Thanks all

..and please keep the advice coming

Good deal!

Ok, how is the exposure coming? Are you working on getting that done?

How does your exposure target list look so far?

Here are some key targets that I see:

1. the OM's wife
2. the volunteer organization
3. your children, if this has not been done yet
4. her parents
5. your parents
6. close friends
7. pastor, if any

Any other close people you can name?

We can help you find a better balance with that. Being so soft that you allow her to run over you is harmful just as being too hard is harmful. By not having any boundaries yourself, you reward her for bad behavior which is bad for your marriage and bad for her.

Something else to consider is that women don't respect men they can run over. Our love is very connected to the respect we feel. She will respect and value you much more if stop enabling her bad behavior. Unconditional love breeds neglect and abuse. Having sane boundaries inspires safe, loving marriages.

Well, our mutual 'couples friends' already know (two other couples). My WW also likes to reveal personal information to too many ppl, in my view, but whatever.

One of our three children knows, the other two do not.

I will have trouble getting to the OM's wife, I can see, after some cursory internet investigation.

reaching the vol organization is no problem.

I will tell her that either she tells our kids, or I will. her choice.

I will have to tell her parents by phone.

You would benefit greatly from participating in the marriage builders coaching. Can you get your wife on board with that?

That way these messages will get through (but not from you...).

Your coach would be telling her she has to give up her male friends - and with the logic and reasons behind it.
I agree, you will have a difficult time explaining it to her in any way that she would not attribute to you making a selfish demand....

Have you discussed this personally with them? Do they have the correct story? Or have they been told a story where you are to blame?


I would stay on this until you get her. Have you tried intelius?


Good deal.


A better plan will be to tell them yourself without forewarning her. This avoids a big, futile fight and ensures the kids get the full truth. It is better to come from you. Give them the facts about the affair, including ratboy's name and encourage them to speak to their mother about it if they have questions.


perfect!

OK, do I expose first and then have the 'talk' about the EPs, or the other way around?

Expose first and then have the talk. She may be blown up and angry at first so wait a couple of days and then have the talk.

When she blows up, just tell her that you want to get as much support as possible for your marriage. As far as the kids go, it is wrong to lie to them about the source of tension in their home. Since it affects them directly, they have a right to know what is happening. Kids also tend to worry and blame themselves for problems when they don't know the facts.

OK.

Here's the vol org letter I wrote. Please review and let me know what you think:


...........................

Mr. xxxxxxx
President, xxxxxxxxxxxxx
address

Mr. xxxxxxx:

I am writing this letter to inform you that, from this point forward, neither myself nor YYYYY will be participating in any XXXXX events at the national level. The reason for this is that I have recently discovered that XXXXXXX, the XXXXXX regional manager, and YYYYYY have been engaged in an extramarital affair. This has been devastating to us both, and currently YYYYY and I are attempting to rebuild our marriage. Obviously, due to these circumstances, it will be impossible for either of us to re-enter the environment in which this affair began and was nurtured, or especially where there is even the slightest chance that my wife and Mr. XXXXXX could come in contact.

As Mr. XXXXX is also married, I leave it to you, as XXXXXX President, to form your own judgment on the suitability of his continued participation with the organization. Mr. XXXXXXX is of no concern to me; my only concern is the rebuilding of my marriage after this crippling blow.

I am distressed to bring you this information, but in the interests of honesty and our leaving the organization (at least at the national level), I felt you were owed an honest explanation of the circumstances. Both YYYYY and I remain deeply appreciative of all you have done for us and we wish your organization the greatest success in the future.

Any questions may be addressed to me at (xxx)xxx-xxxx.

Best regards,