Call your coach right now.

AM

I would not consider that a lie. Recovery is hard...no BS should make promises to stay. That is foolish as so many things can happen or not happen during R. Stop beating yourself up, SM.

StrongerMe, you have kept your word and not made a rash decision so you didn't lie about anything. You have tried for weeks to get him on board and are worn down from the daily battle. You can't carry the load by yourself and you certainly can't carry it alone. I think now this is just a matter of self preservation and you are sensing that you are at the end of your rope. And I can't say I blame you.

Yea I agree with all the posts. But call your coach about it ill be praying for ya!

Thanks for the encouragement and prayers. I really need them. I'll be talking to the coach tomorrow morning.

LH and I talked again tonight. He refuses to leave this house. His demeanor is completely different than yesterday. He is very calm and depressed, pitiful really. But I just don't have any sympathy.

I've seen this too many times to be fooled that THIS time is sincere.

He keeps trying to get me to "analyze" where everything went wrong, to "analyze" him.

I told him I don't even know him anymore. I thought after D-Day, I was getting my husband back, but it didn't happen.

Even now, though he's all docile, he is still selfish enough to refuse to leave this house. He'd rather uproot me AND his daughters. Because of our financial situation, I'll most likely have to stay at my sister's house - over 30 minutes away. Whatever...

He HINTS at working harder, but he won't even commit to it. He's talked SEVERAL times about everything staying "amicable" if we divorce. I swear he talks and acts just like someone who is still in an active affair!

I want to address a couple of things LH put in his thread.

The truck: He says I "told him to do it another day." Absolutely NOT. He came in and said we were taking the truck. I said, "Oh!(surprised) Well, I'd rather not do that on my day off, because it will take several hours. I was thinking about doing it tomorrow or another day after work." He responded, "That only saves 40 minutes." I could tell he was not happy and he just walked away. In my opinion I let him know I wasn't enthusiastic about his idea and I offered an alternative. He didn't try to negotiate any further.

I realized this would just be something else he'd hold against me, so I decided to go ahead and take the truck. Then I found out he'd made other plans - again without talking to me. I pointed that out to him. The thing is - he got what he wanted (I took the truck). I didn't complain about taking the truck, only that he was making decisions without including me, and he's STILL mad about it!!!

Going out to eat: He said he wanted to go to "XX". I knew it would be expensive, so I said I'd be happy with a cheeseburger. He said, what about "YY"? I said sure. So now all of a sudden he's not happy with that? !!And he keeps bringing THAT up as an example of where I don't POJA? What? He NEVER said he had a problem with it until way after the fact. HE is the one that suggested the actual restaurant that we went to! THEN he tells me that he didn't really hae a problem with it - then WHY did he bring it up and post about it?

I'm going to listen to the advice the coach gives me and I will be praying a lot, but at this point, if she tells me to give him another chance...I'll feel like I'm being asked to jump off the Empire State Building and expect a winged unicorn to catch me before I fall.

Ouch. If this is how you truly feel maybe you do need some time away. Are you meeting the recommended UA time? Can you get away for a weekend without the kids to reconnect? It seems that most of your time together is filled with unpleasant interactions and I would see that as the main problem. Have you scheduled your UA time for the week. That would probably be a good time to practice POJA. I can see that LH truly wants to recover the marriage. It is just taking him a bit longer to grasp the MB concepts.

We'll be waiting to hear what the MB coach says. Meantime please calm down. Everything will work out in the end and if it doesn't work out, it's not the end.

((((((Stronger Me)))))))))

We each talked to the coach and have been encouraged to post to Dr. Harley. I'll try to post more during my lunch hour.

I read a comment by NG on LH's thread and it really struck a chord.

The separation is what LH has wanted all along...

Wow. I'm having such an epiphany that I don't know where to begin.

THAT would explain EVERYTHING.

He has threatened divorce no less than 11 times over the past 5 years. He was never emotional during the threats, just matter of fact - "time to part ways", "sorry it had to end this way", "I'm done". He's had our assets written and divided out on paper.

He used to verbally abuse me so bad that I told him I thought he was trying to make me leave him.

But my standards fell so low that I stayed and stayed. It would get worse, and still I stayed. There were times I would hold my hands over my ears, crying, begging him to stop (name calling, cursing, putting me down).

I used to tell him that I thought it was all a game to him - let's see how bad can I treat her, then let me see if I can win her back. Because he's very intoxicating when he is trying to win me back. He's everything I ever wanted, he tells me I'm "perfect", that he never wants to hurt me, we are soulmates. And I fell for it every time.

He would want to analyze "why" he's this way, why he does the things he does. He would always say he'll "do better".

Now, he's not verbally abusing me the way that he did. But he's certainly sabotaging everything in our recovery. And just yesterday he said if we end this, he wants it to be "amicable". I think the only reason HE hasn't threatened divorce again is because he doesn't have any money coming in. He needs me for that (and sex, which he's been getting PLENTY of).

LH verbally abused our DD14 yesterday. No, he didn't call her names and it wasn't as bad as some of the things he's done to me. But SHE recognized it. She told me that he "attacked" her and she started talking about the cycle of abuse.

I thought she had been reading stuff on my computer, but it turned out that she's currently taking notes on it in her PE/Health class. She said the effects of verbal abuse are feelings of worthlessness, depression, feeling like you need to apologize. She told me that was how she felt after the argument with LH. I am ALARMED!

I will NOT allow this to happen to my daughters. I see what it has done to me. I do not even recognize the person I've become.

I'm tired of lowering my standards for him. I'm afraid that will be Dr. Harley's advice to me - keep working on your marriage and give him another chance. But that will make me feel like I'm lowering my standards again. When is enough enough?

I must recover from the A - I haven't even had time to try to do that. I must recover from the YEARS of being lied to, put down, never put first.

I would like to think LH can do this. I've been encouraging him, loving him, praying for him, supporting him, etc. I have nothing left to give him.

I don't have an explanation for why he finally quit the job, put the motorcycle up for sale, and hasn't had contact with his mother. I suppose there is some piece of him that does know what is right, and wants to do the right thing. But, it seems that piece just isn't big enough to make it through the "long haul".

I can't wait on him to do this. I've got to fix myself and I do NOT trust him to help me do it.

When your LB is in the red, it is enough. Do YOU think that you can go on? Are you sure that you want to quit?

Then quit. You are well within your rights to do so!

He still refuses to leave this house, so I need to start making arrangements.

I told him that he should go to anger management classes. He told me I need to go to control management classes.

So, if any of you have any recommendations for a good control management course, could you please direct me to it? And yes, I'm being sarcastic so I apologize if that is against forum rules.

Great News: LongHaul got a job! It's the job we'd been hoping for. Just minutes from my office. We'll be able to ride together, eat lunch together and it's 50 miles from previous job.

Perfect!!!

I am so happy to hear this.

AM

We are very happy, and relieved.

I could tell that LH was starting to get depressed. He's been out of work since December, and it was wearing on him. It was also taking a financial toll, since he was unable to collect unemployment.

I've seen so many positive changes in LH. We've had some setbacks over the past few months, but overall we've been moving in a positive direction.

LH has used his time off to focus on our family and me, read 3! books (unheard of), and really working the MB principles.

With this new job, I feel excitement and happiness, but also some trepidation. I'm scared that he might get so caught up in the new job, that we become a lower priority again.

I'm also concerned about LH working around women. He still has a habit of being too friendly for my comfort and having personal conversation.

For example, he got his hair cut the other week by a woman.
She rides motorcycles (and maybe dates?) someone with the group he used to ride with.

When he got home, he told me about how she was working out now, etc. - personal conversation. And they were alone in the salon for brief moments of the conversation.

The GOOD thing? I told him that it made me uncomfortable and he said he'd never go there again. He admitted that he considered it harmless, but that he'd been wrong about that in the past. It made me feel very loved that it wasn't an argument.

I'm just worried that he will have a difficult time breaking the habit of being so friendly and helpful with women.

The other issues are the motorcycle and his Mom. We are doing the online program and have been instructed to keep these topics off limits for the time being. However, they continue to rear their ugly head.

I know that he is struggling with them because he even said to me, "How can you really love me if you don't want me to see my mother?"

I said that I didn't want contact with MIL because I DO love him and want to protect our marriage from her. If I didn't love him, I wouldn't be worried about her influence.

There have also been a couple of instances where he has been withdrawn from me. I'm hoping it is because he was depressed about the job. I think part of it was not having contact with his Mom.

But, then he told me that he asked a former coworker about OW. The coworker told him that she leaves the school at 9:00, is hardly there, and she didn't wave at him (coworker) when he passed her one day.

It upset me that he asked about her. When I asked him why he did, he said it was because he was told that she'd be leaving the school and he wanted to see if what he was told was true. I worry that he may be thinking of her, or just asking about her contributed to him being withdrawn.

I don't want to waste any more of my life. I'll never get the past 5 years back, and I am going to focus on the positives and really work at distracting myself when I start dwelling on the negatives.

I think we are moving in the right direction and I feel very blessed.

For example, he got his hair cut the other week by a woman...She rides motorcycles (and maybe dates?) someone with the group he used to ride with. When he got home, he told me about how she was working out now, etc. - personal conversation. And they were alone in the salon for brief moments of the conversation.

he even said to me, "How can you really love me if you don't want me to see my mother?"

But, then he told me that he asked a former coworker about OW...When I asked him why he did, he said it was because he was told that she'd be leaving the school and he wanted to see if what he was told was true.

Get ready for more trouble, my friend. I don't give a rat's rectum how many books he's read in four months - he remains a selfish, gaslighting, unreconstructed wayward.

NG - I appreciate your opinion, I really do.

When I first read your response, I felt very defensive, but when I took another breath and reread it, I realized that I don't necessarily disagree with what you said. However, I wouldn't be so harsh.

There probably will be more trouble. He probably is still selfish and unreconstructed, and he definitely still gaslights.

These are habits that have been going on for over 5 years. I know they aren't going to go away in weeks. BUT, and this is an important but - I DO see positive ACTIONS from him. He is either 1)not the same man or 2)an Oscar candidate.

I've been gaslighted for a long time and I can't tell you with certainty which he is.

But, most days I vote for #1.

I believe he is committed to our marriage. I believe he is committed to MB. I am watching his actions and I see the difference.

I don't know what the future holds. He may very well be #2, but this process (and the support on these forums) has changed ME for sure.

I know the kind of marriage that I want. I know what I will no longer tolerate. I believe LH wants the same. I expect that we will work together to achieve it. I won't settle for LH being anything less than a full partner in this.

Right now I'm choosing to be encouraged and excited about our future. But I'm keeping my eyes wide open and know that we both must continue to work at this every day.

SM, I want you to show him my comments because I am concerned about his bad habit of having personal conversations with females. He is starting off on a fresh note at this new job and if he doesn't tighten up his boundaries, he will destroy this job too and he will be right where he started 6 months ago. This is how affairs start, Longhaul: by having PERSONAL CONVERSATIONS with females. When females begin to talk to you about their personal life, you are entering dangerous ground. That is what happened with your hairdresser. THAT IS HOW AFFAIRS START.

No personal conversations with females. No lunch with any females and certainly no more phone calls with the former co-workers at your last school! I don't get why you asked about that old skank hoe? What was the point of that? That is a violation of extraordinary precautions to talk about skanky. That had to have hurt and scared your wife to death.

When a married man has personal conversations in the workplace with other females, it signals that he is available. He is usually viewed as a "workplace weasel," a guy who is available for action with a little attention. You have given off that persona for long time and it about destroyed your career, your marriage and your daughter's family. You can't afford that anymore.

A man with good boundaries is pleasant and polite at work, but he doesn't have personal discussions with females at work. That is how you must change your behavior from here on out.

And I am concerned that you still have that motorcycle.. That is a needless trigger for your wife and you can't afford that. Get rid of the motorcycle, my friend. Get that morbid reminder out of her life and yours. The sooner you do that, the sooner you can both put the affair behind you.

I am sorry to read he is still playing manipulation games... StrongerMe, I hope you are calling him on this when he plays head games.

Also, why go to a female hairdresser? There are many male barbers to chew the fat with while getting your ears lowered. He is showing concerned for the adulteress as NG pointed out early. Like a midget at a urinal SM, you better stay on your toes! Not to be too negative but I am happy God has answered your prayers about the job. Hard to find a good one nowadays! LH don't mess it up!

So...We read and discussed these posts. LH didn't react the way I'd wished and expected.

It wasn't an argument, but not very positive either.

Kinda sad now...It's late and we'll sleep on it. Hopefully the night's sleep and new day will bring better conversation.