I feel both anger and sadness as well. But I also feel guilty because I did "keep talking", and even though I wasn't AO or DJ, I feel that my talking messed things up.

I feel pressured to stay upbeat and happy so that I don't bring him down. I feel pressured to only encourage and praise. I was very cautious in the way I approached this. That I know, and it didn't seem to make a difference in the outcome.

It certainly represents his attitude at that time. I've said before that I feel that I am married to Jekyll and Hyde.

I'm so confused. I guess my plan is that I think things will get better because he has a job now. I guess my plan is to focus on the positive changes that are real, and to be patient that the overall positive trend will continue.

I can't control him. I can only control myself. My plan is to continue to be the best wife I know how to be. I want to continually improve myself and hope that he's motivated to do the same.

And, yep, I know "hope" is not a plan, but as I said I can't control him. I believe that we can have a GREAT marriage. I believe that he can help me heal and that we can both be the spouses we've only dreamed of.

But I also know that five years have been wasted and I don't want to waste any more of my life. I know we can turn this around. Somehow we have to find a way to be united.

Haha...a much shorter answer to what am I going to do? - I don't know.

Or patience? (which I consider endurance with expectations)

Expectations require evidence. How are we doing with that? Bluntly: What has he done for YOUR MARRIAGE in the past few weeks that show his vector is MB-positive? Reading? Posting? Workbook? Initiating any intimate UA time? (NOT sack-time! Men get no credit for that!)

Endurance without expectations is known as.....sacrifice.

From waaaaaay out here: LH seems to have as much "marriage" as he wants, especially now that he is again gainfully employed. He has you double-thinking yourself (and worse, US). He can cow you into submission with barely-restrained AOs. He retains his motorcycle, and freedom to ignore reasonable boundaries without consequence. He can put you off with , "Oh, gee, maybe you're right," or, "Oh, no, it's not like that, " or "You are just being so JUDGMENTAL!"

Am I overstating the situation?

OK, I know it's not funny.... But this made me laugh out loud! I'm still laughing....

I've been in AA, clean & sober for 30 years. You'd be amazed how many new-comers say EXACTLY what he said. That's why it's making me laugh. It's the mind of an addict/wayward that makes this type of statement.
And these new-comers argue their point that it's safe to go to bars as long as they take someone that is going to make them behave.
It just never occurs to them that the rational person would just stay out of the bar.

You have "female logorrhea". Very common disorder. Your female brain *thinks* that if you talk long enough, you can eventually say things just the *right way* that the person in front of you will *get it*, and make the appropriate changes.

Am I close to right?

There is a cure.

x2

What your WH doesn't seem to understand (or doesn't want to understand) is that EPs are not only designed to prevent another affair but they are designed to help you, the hurting BS, to feel safe and protected.

I asked Dr Harley on the weekend forum about issues with EPs that xWH and I were having. This was what he said. I believe this applies to your situation.

Fair grade on workbook. We haven't done it, but he's talked about it (without me bringing it up).I postponed once because I wanted to listen to radio show. Improvement in AO. I believe he's committed in continually improving the way he talks to me and the girls. Also fair grade on gaslighting.

Bad grade on reading and posting in past few weeks.

Good grade - listened to radio show with me every day last week. Enthusiastic about planning UA time. Improved with interactions with the girls.


I don't feel cowed down, compared to how it used to be. Interesting that you said "especially now that he is again gainfully employed". Last month my DD12 said that she thinks he's just faking everything because he doesn't have a job.

I struggle to know what is real. I just don't know.

You need to think about what your most important point(s) is/are before you begin to speak. In other words, you plan what you are about to say. Try planning in the form of a list. Restrict yourself to 3 important points. If the issue is complicated, restrict yourself to just one point at a time. Do not throw in 'the kitchen sink' for good measure. People have a limited capacity to listen & retain what you say to them. This varies with each individual. If you over-speak, then your most important points are not 'heard'.

Make sense?

This is one reason why I try to keep my posts relatively short.
If I want to make another point, I usually make 2 posts.
Make sense now?

But they can change,right? And doesn't it sometimes take time?

I don't want to mess up. I love him. I want our marriage to work.

But he's asked me to just let him continue as he has, that he knows that he can't have personal conversations, but that it is impossible to avoid women, so I have to give him a chance.

He asked - how's he supposed to go to the grocery store? There are women there. Since he has to avoid female service providers, then how can he go to a cash register? He says I need to give him some slack.

I was working down with my replies and was just about to ask you for the cure and you beat me to it.

I was also thinking of writing to him instead of talking. What do you think?

YES!

I think you have probably said every important point.... more than once. Am I correct?

Like a married man.
No smiling.
No friendly banter.
Business only.
"Yes please", "No thank you'.

Yes.

And you are SO right that I keep talking because I think if I can just say it the "right" way, or use the "right" analogy or illustration...

But when he argues with me, it is as if he didn't even hear me at all. He has told me that he doesn't hear things right. It is like he gets in some kind of "mode".

And it is a challenge for me not to get engaged and start defending some random thing he says...

That was my advice as well. Then he told me he has to work with women. Do I want him to quit this job too?

About to go to lunch. Wish me luck!

Following your thread, there was a discussion about his breaking EPs with the hairdresser (having personal conversation with her) and how to solve that by not having female hairdressers anymore.

For him to start throwing things out like that he can't even go to the grocery store is a form of gaslighting.

Your coach should be helping you with this. Has this been covered with Longhaul?

AM

I understand. That's why you need to plan your 3 most important points. Say them using the most effective words. Then, stop.

Conversation is probably one of your top ENs.

Start to POJA with him. Even if he is unaware of what is happening.

"Do I want you to quit your job? Let me ask you this. How might we brainstorm to reach a mutual agreement and find a way that you keep any job safe for our marriage?