Ask him!

And if he says no, keep this problem on the front burner (i.e., keep bringing it up every day or two). Tell him it is important to you to find a solution together.

Thank you for the great testimonial about my favorite Marriage Builders resource. It's fantastic that you are listening!

If you can get your husband to listen to Marriage Builders Radio with you, that might help you get some traction.

Yes, I agree you cant do it piecemeal. At the time we were doing it things were really quite bad and the idea was to take it slow. Get some deposits going, get into the habit of the 15 hours a week. Unfortunately he wasn't speaking up - or if he was I wasn't getting it (totally possible) - school started again for the year (which meant working around evening math classes), it got dark earlier ( we were spending a great deal of time at a local lake that closes when it gets dark..close by home, totally free and we had privacy to talk)it got cold.. we were spending more and more of our UA time at home in our room doing puzzles etc. He once again said his emotional needs were wrong on his worksheet but wouldnt redo it..all downhill from there. A month of limping along lead to another big blow-up (about 6 months ago) and we have both been mostly in withdrawl since.

I dont think just removing my LBs will do it either MrAlias, but I do think if he sees that he can speak without me LBing him I can get him on board. And yes, again you are correct,,,there is more wrong than just my LB's, but they are a big part of why we havent been able to work the other things out. I absolutely plan to suggest the online program, I just dont believe he will buy into it at the moment.

PORH is probably the biggest issue, POJA not so much believe it or not. Yes, we need to get better at it, but there really is very little we need to POJA. We're both really laid back about most things (the exercise of POJA in the grocery store made us both chuckle because neither one of us really care what the other one wants from the store.)but the things we "arent" as laid back about, yes we need practice POJAing it.

What are your complaints in your marriage, Rox? What does your husband do (or doesn't do) that bothers/hurts you?

If I do that at this point I'm pushing him - his words not mine.

What do you mean by "big blow up"?
What happens when you try to use POJA over things you are not "laid back about"?

I really have an inkling there's more to it than that, more on your husband's side that he hasn't shared with you. I suspect it can be uncovered shortly if we can help you get him back fully on board.

It sounds like you guys really need the Love Busters side of the program. I have always said that HNHN without LB is like only half of a marriage program! In the online course nowadays, Dr. Harley frequently starts couples with the Love Busters side first and gets those eliminated before moving on. And sometimes that's all it takes.

It's hard to keep the relationship going when fights and blowups happen every few weeks or so. Prisca and I went through a lot of this. Fighting (demands, disrespect, and anger) really has to be avoided AT ALL COSTS. It's like nuclear war. Nobody wins; the only way to win is not to play.

My main complaints...hmm. I never seem to know where I stand with him, he will often say what he thinks I want to hear but not what is radically honest from him. Keeps me off balance and not knowing exactly where a problem may be.

It bothers me that he thinks being wealthy would make him the happiest (not having a good income.. wealthy as in never have to work again just won the lottery wealthy). He has said in the past that this (motioning between the two of us) wasn't what was going to make him happy.

It bothers me that he just doesn't seem to be able to have fun, even when we're doing things that are fun. He worries a lot about what people think, so for example one evening when we were at Kmart and a song came over the loudspeaker I wanted him to dance with me. It was late, the aisles were deserted and Ive always been a goofy sort like that...his refusal hurt my feelings.

I'd really like some passion...I guess Im more typically male in the sex department and I'd really like him to be "into" it more.

Im sure theres more but in essence I want to be a priority to him and I want "us" to be a priority to him.

Arguing, typically him having an angry outburst and storming off, or going to bed followed by the silent treatment until I apologize for whatever it is I think he's upset about.

He agrees and then later during an argument he says he never actually agreed but just went along with it.

I failed on trying to entice my W on board. Only until she was so withdrawn she knew something had to give was she willing to give the MB counseling a try.

I don't think you should try to sell him on it. I just don�t see you improving your LBs being a reason why he would suddenly agree to MB counseling or the online program. I think that path will be a long drawn out and difficult situation. Which may only exasperate the situation.

I think you�d be better off asking, maybe as a favor, for him to try talking just one time with SH or JC to see if what they had to say would help. Let them inform him why this program isn't built for women, where he stands to benefit, what would need to change in order for there to be recovery. etc. It is what worked in my situation.

Another option would be to talk with Steve or Jennifer by yourself and ask them for help in getting your H on the phone.

Okay, this is the problem then, on your husband's side. I'm sure you know from the radio by now, Dr. Harley's position is that abuse in marriage should not be tolerated, and that all demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts are abuse. Dr. Harley made several choice posts to Prisca about my angry outbursts explaining that there was nothing we could do for our marriage until I eliminated them. There is usually very little that a wife can do in "cleaning up her side of the street" that will make a difference if her husband believes that it is okay to have angry outbursts sometimes or believes that his wife is causing his angry outbursts.

You shouldn't have to do the program perfectly to get your husband to stop his angry outbursts. Angry outbursts shouldn't be tolerated in any marriage, whether they've ever heard of Marriage Builders or not.

So here is the most important question I think has been asked in the thread so far: have you confronted your husband about his angry outbursts and asked him to stop them?

Yes, we are both painfully aware that the AO's must stop. No, Im not responsible for his AO's (as Harley says...youre responsible for your own temper) but for someone as nonconfrontational as I've always known him to be, someone who has literally one of the most gentle souls- to have these kinds of outbursts (and not the entire marriage - mainly in the last several years when finacial problems & stress were at an all time high) there has to be something very, very wrong on my end. I do believe people can be pushed to their very limits...yes his choice to express it in that way and yes he will need to figure out a different way of expressing himself, be it anger mangement classes or some other mode of dealing.

Dr. Harley encourages wives to complain about neglect, and definitely about their husband's love busters. Even if the husband feels "pushed." The problem needs to stay on the front burner.

A complaint is usually a love bank withdrawal. Dr. Harley says even when Joyce complains to him (in their great marriage!) it is a love bank withdrawal. But there is no good alternative! There is no way to have a good marriage without communicating about unmet needs and love busters, even if it is a truth we don't want to hear. For this reason, Dr. Harley does NOT classify a complaint as a "love buster," even though it is a withdrawal. Long term, the information in the complaint is used to better the marriage and increase the love bank deposits.

Pepperband has a great thread about complaining in marriage with a lot of good information from Dr. Harley.

Absolutely not!!

No - even if everything were perfect on your end, that does not stop angry outbursts.

Men who have anger problems typically are very gentle men, with strong Givers. Does that sound like your husband?


I believe that people can learn to avoid angry outbursts no matter what happens to them. The idea that there is a limit to endurance is one key piece of thinking that causes angry outbursts. One of the things I learned in anger management was to eliminate this kind of thinking.

And keep in mind that when a spouse doesn't want to do something then that's the end of it. So if he doesn't want to dance in the aisles, then no dancing in the aisles.

You just described markos!

People who have AOs generally tend to be very gentle, giving people. They give, and give, and give until they have given too much and then their taker rears its ugly head

We can help them find something else to do that's just as fun.

Here. Complain about Your Spouse to your Spouse

Also this.
Conflict Avoidance is the Kiss of Death

That's the one! Thank you, BrainHurts!