Also, what do you think I should do about WW wanting me to attend Marriage Counseling with her. She scheduled an appt for Thursday and I don't know if I should go

Is this an open question for the Board, or were you looking for Markos' input exclusively?

No, I'm just looking for perspective and advice from anyone willing to provide it; he was the only one providing it at the moment which is why I quoted him. But I'm just seeing what people think of my feelings, maybe get a fresh perspective because I know my emotions are definitely playing a major factor in my decision making right now.

Some of the stuff you have been saying sure sounds like you are thinking about doing some very wrong things. And presently you *are* committed to her because you are *still married*. Her affair is not an instant pass out of your marriage commitment. You need to divorce her before you are free to do whatever. Until you are divorced, any relationship you start is just a revenge affair.

I agree. I have moved out like 2 weeks ago and I told my wife I cannot commit to our relationship. She does not want a divorce and wants to work on our M but I don't at this point. That is what I'm asking, what should I do? Should I file for divorce and go through all that process even if I'm not sure thats what I want? I've never been through any of this and I don't know the correct way to tread these waters.

Edit: In addition, I am not looking for a relationship at all right now I am just trying to get some time alone and figure out if I'm happier alone or if I can't live without my wife. I don't know if MC is the way to go right now since I'm not ready for R at this point in time.

Okay, then, this becomes a risk/reward decision.

What training does this counselor have? - You want one familiar enough with the MB Program as to be able to recommend actions based on its tenets. There is NOTHING wrong with determining this beforehand.

What credentials does this "counselor" have? - If "church-based"...uhh-ohh. The stories here mitigate against expecting too much good (and too often a whole lotta "bad") from such folks.

Why/how did WW select this person? - If (and here's where NG gets himself in trouble yet again) WW made the choice because "SHE seemed to be the kind to be able to help", RUN, do not WALK, away from this "opportunity". The bonds of sisterhood will not be working in your favor, pardner.

You have not much time to learn these parameters. Concurrently, I'd suggest you investigate alternative, MB-consistent MC sources that would be more attuned to YOUR interests. That way, your answer can never be used as "Well, I tried, but tsm refused to try counseling!", but, instead, "We could not agree on a counselor so MC was not attempted!"

You would think these people would have clear information about themselves but it is hard to find on any counselors in our city. I had looked before and it just says in what areas they specialize in but doesn't have any information regarding what programs they follow or anything.

I guess if I do attend at least the first session, I will make very clear what their goals are as far as the counseling and what they are looking to help us achieve.

You two would be so much better off using MB Online or one of the MB coaches to get you started. Most marriage counselors have no idea how to save a marriage or how to restore romantic love or how infidelity works.

If I was in your situation, I'd call the MB coach and sign up for a couple of sessions to start with. Then see if you think you might be hopeful about the recovery of your marriage.


We're both incredibly glad we used MB to recover. All the MC we hired in the past never addressed the conditions of the affairs, or how to prevent another one, or how to restore the love. ALL it ever focused on was how to communicate and how to resolve conflicts.

How do I contact the MB coaches?

Everything you are experiencing is completely normal for someone going through the worse experience of their life. What she has done to you is the most damaging thing anyone could do to anyone they love.

No one will deny you that D is the natural consequence of an A.

However, this is far too fresh for you to rationally make that decision right now. Very difficult to make life altering decisions in the state of mind you are in today.

Get SAA, LB's, and HNHN's...sign up for counseling with the Harley's. This will help you sort out the possibilities as to how viable entering into a plan of R may or may not be with your WW.

Do you have the MB app on your phone? Have you considered emailing a question to the radio program? The Harley's will give you the best possible chance to sort things out.

What would your W say were the biggest challenges in your M? (Pre-A)

Very few counselors have the tools/experience to restore romantic love and recover marriages after an A. Typically, they are nothing more than D facilitators.

This is one of the things that make MB's so amazing.

Here's the link to the coaching center: Here

I know its a short time in the big picture of me finding out about the A. I found out about 6 weeks ago now and I feel like alot of my initial actions and thoughts were more reaction and panic and I don't know if I am going through another stage after finding out about the A but I am not really sure about R at this point.

The biggest challenges during our M were me not being able to satisfy her EM's. I was very depressed and was not able to function much, I was on anti-depressants and I wasn't able to communicate at all with her at the end (although I think this had much to do with the A already having begun). That is another form of resentment I have is instead of being there for me during this time she abandoned me and had the A.

At this point, it is really hard for me to believe I can be happy with WW after all this and after instead of being there fore me when I needed it most she bailed on me. And on to top it all off, I am the one that has to get over it and live with it the rest of my life.

Here's how I would see you approach this situation. By being Radically Honest with yourself and your W.

I would make the recommendation to your W that your best shot at recovery is to use either the MB online course and/or MB Coaching. Well ... because it is your best shot. Then you also should fill her in on the honest truth.

"I am initiating the counseling because right now I'm not in the best state of mind where I can make big decisions regarding our M. So I am going to enter into this counseling with the hope that it helps me heal. I promise you nothing except I will put forth the effort. It is very possible I still won�t feel like staying married even after we try this program."


While we�d all like to think we could just be there for our spouses when they�re having a rough time it is always difficult to do so if there is nothing being returned. So while I understand your pain regarding the affair I also understand how draining it can be to put forth a ton of effort to help someone get through an ordeal only to get NOTHING in return.

You played a part in the degradation of your M. You need to own that part. Depression or not you still had a responsibility to make attempts to keep the M alive. She owns her part too.

That is very good advice I will mull over. Also, this is where alot of my resentment comes from. She IMO still has not owned her part, she feels like her actions were justified and that we should move on with a clean slate since "I pushed her so far away and pushed her to have the A". Yeah, not kidding. I was all in at first, found this site, printed out all the material and handed it to her, she didn't even have to get online and look. I printed out the EM and LB questionnaire's but she made it through half of one then quit. I played videos when we were in bed (time she usually spent on her ipad and phone) and instead of watching with me she went to sleep. We had a road trip and I put on the MB radio program and she went to sleep again instead of listening. All of this made my resentment boil over and ultimately sent me over the limit. I am a type of person that once its over and that line has been crossed I have never come back. I don't know if this can be an exception but I know for sure that I'm not anywhere near ready to make it the exception at this point.

I think I would be frank with her and tell her that you need more out of her for recovery.

The fact is that with a situation like what you are describing, you will probably need to do some hard work to get her to fall back in love with you before you see a lot out of her. This work would require suppressing a lot of your urges, particularly your urge to express that resentment to her and use it as a tool to try to make her put forth more effort sooner. That approach typically does not work in the long term (because your wife's efforts won't be sustainable until she falls back in love with you).

I'm thinking you're going to feel that it is very unfair for you to have to put forth that kind of effort with little effort from her.

So I suggest telling her up front, now, that you require extraordinary precautions, 15 hours of undivided attention time each week, and a chance to help each other overcome love busters, as a basic condition of even trying to stay married. Maybe write that out for her so she can read it while she is alone, to avoid a fight.

If you don't see a basic commitment from her to do this up front, then this is probably going to be a lot of work for you. We can help you through that, but I am telling you up front that it is NOT going to feel fair, at all.

Be sure to mention short term ADs to your doctor. If you stay married, I think you are going to need them until recovery is complete.

I get your resentment.

The best I could offer is for you to consider that she is still in a bit of her fog. She is still operating in the mode that she was (somewhat) justified in having the affair. With time following this program and her having to get a few 2x4s from those she may eventually listen to I suspect her tune will change and you will find your W becoming remorseful, apologetic and emphatic about how she�ll avoid these pitfalls in the future. I'm quite certain the MB coaches will discuss with you and her just compensation.

However, that is all purely speculative. There is no way of knowing how willing your W will be in accepting her shortcomings.

The person you see before you today I�m quite certain is not the woman you married. And that right now her guilt, anger and withdrawal are driving her actions.

Try to keep your eye on the positive statement end goal that everyone here has been preaching to you. You will have a very solid M with a woman who has extremely effective boundaries. You two will be very much in love and will only be concerned with the care and protection of each other.

If you put in the effort you stand a very good chance of obtaining that goal. If she falls short or things don�t change for you � well then you�ve done what you could and it�s probably best to move on.

Here you go.
Radio Clip of txstunnedman's Question

Thanks for that. That is very rational.

Well it appears ww has finally began reading the MB website. She has been killing me with kindness. I don't know if its too late because I still have too strong of resentment to commit to anything right now.