Great advise JessicaClaire. But how do we know if WH is being honest or not? That is a problem I am having. He tells me something but not everything. Then I find "evidence" of things and find he is hiding stuff from me. So how do I know and Warrior_Princess if we are ever getting the absolute truth?

I can't think of any other way to explain it than what I previously said, so I will step aside at this point.

How did that happen? What exactly is he lying about?


Delving into every detail of the affair including his "feelings" about OW is a waste of time. People in affairs are in a FOG and they rewrite history and grasp onto anything to rationalize it and justify in their own mind. It is a FOG.

Analyzing the FOG is not productive. It keeps you stuck in the past.

That is why once you have the basic details of the affair it should not be brought up again. He had an affair because he has poor boundaries and did not protect the marriage. Is he committed to changing this?

It's above in the advice given by JessicaClaire, you show your WH that you will not tolerate any further lies and you show seriousness by actions not threats, if you discover any further lies after you have told your WH that you want to have a totally transparent and honest marriage then prepare to separate.

What you both went through is called trickle truth and it's very hard, I was not told all I needed to know and this led to years of feeling like there was still more that my WH had not told me, I am now sure he has been honest with me but it took years of recovery to get to that stage especially after the trickle truth start.

Thanks!!!! Right now I am in a struggle because I told both OW and H not to contact each other and low and behold I can guarantee they have seen eachother at work but I see texts. No contact to me means NO CONTACT!!!

I agree it is a waste of time. I have tried to tell this poster that but am not getting through. Dr Harley WOULD NOT encourage you to continue discussing the affair, WarriorPrincess, once you have the basic facts, which I believe you do. If you want to recover your marriage, WP, then stop talking about it.

Here is how she answered me when I asked what it was she needed to know:
In other words, she has the basic facts of the affair but is digging for minor details. Which will prevent her from recovering. Once the facts are known - and they are according to this - the subject should be dropped.

My understanding is that she does have answers to the basic facts regarding the affair and he has taken a poly to prove it and passed. I am still waiting for Warrior to answer the question of what she thinks he is still lying about.


FOG

The last post was written to a poster on the private forum who went through a false recovery AND continued to bring up the affair for YEARS after the affair ended. She kept herself in turmoil for YEARS afterwards by doing this and has post traumatic stress disorder.

Take it from someone who made the same mistake, don't ruin your present in addition to ruined past. You have a chance to make your present GREAT if you will just follow these steps.

WP: Your husband told you that he is still lying to you; he actually admitted this to you as a matter of fact. Correct?

If that is true--then even if you never mentioned your husband's affair again for the rest of your life--your marriage would never truly recover. Here's why: your husband is telling you quite clearly--through both his words and his actions--that he still feels justified deceiving you and will continuing doing so. Even if you were able to tolerate living with that, it would eventually deplete your "lovebank," so the relationship would die a slow death.

Dr. Harley says the path to recovery after an affair is very narrow, and it requires the wayward spouse to become transparent. Your husband is refusing to do that, and you can't do it for him.

WP, is this correct? Your husband told you he "is still lying" about something?

I don't see how they can truly recover if she has to live like that.

Yes he has said he is still lying. He talked to his counselor about it yesterday. His suggestion was for WH to try and find a way to find compassion for himself. That's all well and good but I'm clueless here. I don't know what to do now. We both handled things so poorly since Dday and now 14 months out, I still don't have the truth, I don't see remorse - regret and guilt but not true repentance- he struggles with shame and feeling insecure. I am clueless on what to do.

If he is still lying, then this is hopeless. I am not sure what it means to "find compassion" for oneself, especially when the remedy is to make amends to his victim. I would hold your ground and not move forward until he stops lying. Dr Harley would tell you to go into Plan B if he truly still lying and won't participate in recovery.

And obviously you wouldn't see repentance from someone who is lying. That is the opposite of repentance.

I'm not going anywhere, plan b isn't an option for me at this point. I love my WH and know under this alien is the man I married. I will fight for him. Not at the expense of myself anymore though. I told him this "game" needs to stop and there is no going forward without the basics. I deserve the truth. Gods hand is in this, I *KNOW* that. To get my heart to know that is another thing.

Hoping I quoted right. No I don't think God's hand is in my husbands lies. He is in this process though.

WH has mega abandonment issues. It triggers a major panic response in him. I had filed for divorce due to his issues still being here after so long. The lies and lack of remorse mostly. I didn't ask Gods permission when I filed and he led me to cancel the divorce two weeks before it was to be final. During that time, WH didn't snap out of anything, the more I detached, the harder he dug his feet into horrible behaviors. So now I am trying to find a new way of doing things. I have been working really hard at making sure he know how much I want us and how I am not leaving.

I can now see just how many love busters I did in the last year. How I didn't always make it a safe place for WH to be honest. Granted most of the reasons i didn't make it a safe place is pretty much every time we tried to talk about his affair he lied. I have been working very hard at not freaking out the last few months. I didn't even react when he finally admitted he loved his AP a few weeks ago. Neither did he and that's an entirely different post I think.

And then we have conversations like this one and I wonder why on earth I am here ;( this wasn't an argument In any way - this was an honest conversation about him still holding onto his lies.

Me - do you have any idea what a slap in the face it is for me to know your not repentant? To know you are not willing to do WHATEVER it takes to fix us?

Him - this is where we run into trouble - I believe I am willing to do anything and that I am repentant - I feel like it know my heart and that it would do anything to make you feel safe and to make up for everything that was done.

Me - and that's the problem isn't it? Lying is the opposite of repentance and you can't see that so we are screwed until you do.

Him - I know it is an absolute unavoidable requirement to get the rest of the lies out. I know it's a major lynchpin in healing.

Me - how can you feel repentance while lying? Doesn't that seem contradictory to you?

Him - repentance: the action or process of repenting especially for misdeeds or moral shortcomings - I feel as though I am on that process - that I am in the process of taking these actions - even with the lies - I feel like I am in the process of getting to those.

Is it just me or WTF? It's been 14 months already....

If I am doing this wrong - please tell me. I really am trying to be a better person here - I allowed his affair to turn me into the monster he made me out to be in his head when he needed an excuse to cheat and I didn't like her. I want to be me again. Me is full of empathy, understanding and forgiveness.