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Originally Posted by MindMonkey
So much to respond to and so little time. At the risk of sounding argumentative I'll address Facebook:

1. Most wayward should get rid of it because it can refuel the affair, or start a new one. I wasn't concerned with this aspect. I'm still not.

2. What I did not realize is that it is a resentment machine. 6 times now I've had to ask her to delete friends. I told her I wasn't doing it anymore. Even when she told Dr. H THE only OS friends were immediate family, that was not true. And now she still has OS friends. Just because she claims they are openly gay doesn't help when one of this gay dudes was her first kiss. When I'm happy none of them bothered me but when I'm not, they all do.

You are right, the fact that they are gay does not mean they won't have an affair. That's about as reasonable as "He's safe because he's married - he'd never have an affair with me."

Again, instead of arguing about how wrong she is, or whether she lied to Dr. Harley or not, you just lay it out as follows: in order for us to have a chance to reconcile our marriage, you'll have to eliminate all your opposite sex friendships, and all friendships I'm not enthusiastic about. It seems to me you're overly focused on the "AHA! See - she's doing this wrong!" aspect than on solving these problems. Don't win the debate - solve the problems.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by MindMonkey
I would be enthusiastic because even though I'm very proud of her, she's never been 100% satisfied with her career. The separation would go a long way to fix that. She would have something to "show off" instead of me always being the "belle of the ball".

The trip is only one night. One miserable night. Lots of flight delays and I forgot to pack three very important things.


You guys just aren't going to make it if you keep cutting these corners.


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Did you ever listen to this?


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FWW/BW (me)
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Last edited by markos; 12/20/13 02:26 PM.

If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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MM, are you avoiding posting on your thread again because you've chosen to be selective about what advice you are going to follow?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by markos
MM, are you avoiding posting on your thread again because you've chosen to be selective about what advice you are going to follow?

I suppose so.

I'm just trying to focus on the advice given by Dr. Harley. I'm sure the forum means well, but much of the time it's not encouraging.

For example, when I have to travel overnight:

Dr. Harley - Stay as connected as possible (call/text/skype), DW doesn't go on any GNO & doesn't drink. I don't travel with women alone and don't go anywhere outside of business.

Forum - With all this cutting corners, I don't see much hope for this couple.

Dr. Harley and Joyce have given us good advice. We're trying to follow that, so I guess you could call it selective. And (fingers crossed) I've felt a lot better these past two weeks. Of course that just might be my Christmas spirit.


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You are misquoting Dr. Harley. He says, under no uncertain terms, that you are never to be separated overnight. He does not endorse overnight travel separate of your spouse.

If your point is that the forum diverges from Dr. Harley, you are wrong. Most of us listen to the radio show daily and have studied MB principles in depth. You are not going to be successful in sandbagging us.


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Thanks, but that's not what he said to me. I have a lot of respect for him and his advice, but it was for me and DW. I wouldn't expect it to apply to everyone.

Excuse me but I just gave DW an hour long massage and put her to bed early. I promised I'd put the kids down and join her in our "sex cave" for a long winter's nap.


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Originally Posted by mrEureka
He says, under no uncertain terms, that you are never to be separated overnight. He does not endorse overnight travel separate of your spouse.

I missed the window to edit my last response. It was hasty and rude.

No, Dr. Harley has not endorsed overnight travel. He maintains it is not good for a marriage. But he did not encourage me to quit the military like it has been suggested by the forum. I am not signing anymore contracts (because this life has caused my M to suffer), but I'm not going to smoke a dubie to get kicked out. I have been assigned to a post where I have limited and short overnight trips, but they are part of the job.

His advice to my W on her first phone call to the radio program was to maintain strong EPs. They also talked about some additional actions we should take when I do travel. It was very helpful. On my last trip we followed his advice and it really helped to minimize the "disconnected" feeling we normally get. Plus she sent me some really hot "selfies".


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Originally Posted by MadMindMonkey
But he did not encourage me to quit the military like it has been suggested by the forum.

But that is not what you said after you spoke to him:

Originally Posted by MMM on 12-3-2013
2. Stop sacrificing which is leading to additional resentments on top of the one�s I already have. One big exception here is the fact that I have to give up my career which, as Dr. Harley states, has been destructive in my marriage. I am finding it difficult to be enthusiastic throwing away a career because my wife cannot be separated from me overnight.
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I am confused too. When I expressed concern about your W's job with lots of opportunities for OS interaction, MM, you basically countered the As would have never happened if you were coming home every night.

Originally Posted by MindMonkey, 10/23/2013
Quote
Do you see how important lifestyle changes are? You MUST take EPs more seriously. We thought we were but there were many gaping holes left open - WxH had email, FB and the biggest one - a job that a serial cheater cannot have, one that has many opportunities for OS interaction.

I disagree that I am not taking them seriously. My wife would not have had the affairs if I was coming home every night. No one has to accept this as fact, but it's my reality. I am sending a formal letter to the military declining promotion. This means that my career is over and I won't be going away ever again. I have sunk my career.


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Your radio show:

Part 1


Part 2

"I need to reiterate that being apart overnight are one of the main conditions that lead to an affair. <snip> I would encourage you not to be apart overnight. If your job encourages you to be apart overnight then I would encourage you to get another job." Dr. Bill Harley


Part 3



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I am getting another job. This contract has to expire first. I made this vow in front of God as well as my marriage vows. In the meantime we are doing the best we can.

SusieQ. Your point is well received. The dudes at her workplace have turned out to be quite touchy feely. But she has kept up her bargain to tell me everything. And as long as she's in love with me no other man is a threat to my M. Spending two nights in the next state won't change that.


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Originally Posted by MindMonkey
And as long as she's in love with me no other man is a threat to my M.

If you actually believe this statement, you still have much to learn about how and why affairs occur.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Your radio show:

Part 1


Part 2

"I need to reiterate that being apart overnight are one of the main conditions that lead to an affair. <snip> I would encourage you not to be apart overnight. If your job encourages you to be apart overnight then I would encourage you to get another job." Dr. Bill Harley


Part 3
I think he was on the 12-02-13 show. Is that correct MM?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by armymama
Originally Posted by MindMonkey
And as long as she's in love with me no other man is a threat to my M.

If you actually believe this statement, you still have much to learn about how and why affairs occur.
AM is right. My wife was in love with me through both of her affairs. That fact alone did not stop her from considering other men. Extraordinary precautions are what is needed to prevent affairs, not blind trust in the emotion of love.


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Being in love with ones spouse hasn't a lot to do with the "why" behind how an affair starts IMO.
As many have already said, one can be in love and love their spouse while starting, engaging & continuing in an affair.


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Longish Update:

Big thing is my resentment has died down significantly. Bottling up all the hurt feelings was really adding to the resentment but DW has graciously allowed me to talk through the past hurts. It also gave us a chance to explore some additional issues and conditions that led to the affairs. As a result, she is seeing a IC now which has GREATLY increased my security in the M. She�s also back on AD, which she stopped right before her A.

DW work is turning out to be a real win. She put everyone on edge in her department the first few weeks by snapping at anyone who touched her or gave her a non-professional compliment. That makes me happy. I'm still generally annoyed by men who think it's OK to touch women (married or not). It seems so violating to me. And the medical profession has to be one of the worst, IMO. But so far, I feel very safe with her current employment.

I feel like I am meeting her needs close to 100%. I read in her journal about the SF in our past and she was NOT into it, crying afterward sometimes. Now I can confidently say she WANTS me. Pretty much all the time. Half is due to her being in love with me. The other half is the prospect of enjoyment, of which she gets every time. It's a shame that I'm on these AD, which are reducing my prospect of enjoyment, but much of the time I'm just happy with pleasing her and snuggling. We've made a habit of "naked snuggling" every morning when the alarm goes off. No sex, just holding each other and doing our best to keep our morning breath to ourselves. We've almost been late for work a number of times due to it, but it's so worth it to start and end every day in each other�s arms.

She�s meeting my needs well too. I have some minor complaints but nothing worth noting here.

LB are both pretty minimal as well. I quit chewing (tobacco) and reduced my drinking drastically following the New Year which has increased my irritability for the short term. This makes her annoying habits more annoying and sometimes I slip with a DJ. I�ve been mostly able to identify it myself and correct it on the spot. But no AO on my part. She had one big one when I made a reference to going on a work trip with the new girl that she knows I consider attractive. In hindsight, my reference was framed in an insensitive manner in the middle of some very nice family time. I see why she got so angry, but her reaction was frightening. This was a few weeks ago.

UA time is still over 15 hours but we don�t schedule it. Most of it is spent in the house except for date nights once or twice a week. We�re looking forward to more light in the evenings so we can get back into running after the workday. Right now it�s mostly dark when we get home so we just cook dinner and chat. While the kids clean up we retire up to the bedroom or down to the basement for alone time. It works for us, but then again, are kids are older and mostly independent. Oddly enough, the highlight of my week is going to the grocery store with her. We make a production out of it. I solicit meal requests from the kids and DW, dig up recipes and make a list, and then we make a date out of shopping. It takes all morning. Once all the groceries are put away we chop veggies for the week and premake the meal for the night. During the whole evolution we give each other brief kisses and hugs as well as more sexual touches which always leads to some �afternoon delight�.

Anyway, mostly good here. My next challenge will be getting off the AD but I�m fearful of that right now. Oh, and we�re flying to Houston this W/E for my Dad�s 60th. I got him a NICE bottle of scotch, of which I hope to partake.


Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
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DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I think he was on the 12-02-13 show. Is that correct MM?

Here's your show.
Radio Clip MindMonkey's Show
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4


Yes, BH. That was my show. Really trying to take Dr. Harley's advice to heart. I think we're still earning that 'A+'.


Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
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