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kam,
I don't know where that post you asked about is (I'm not sure even "what" it is LOL)....so I thought I would just open up this discussion about the "good" taker and the "bad" giver.
When most of us think of the giver and taker...we tend to naturally think of our giver as the good guy, and our taker as the bad guy. The truth is that both giver and taker possess both good and bad and can have either a positive or negative impact on our marriages.
Harley describes these two "entities" in this way:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The Giver is the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make the other person happy and avoid anything that makes the other person unhappy, even if it makes you unhappy. It's the part of you that wants to make a difference in the lives of others, and it grows out of a basic instinct that we all share, a deep reservoir of love and concern for those around us.
But the Giver is only half of the story. The other half is the Taker. It's the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make yourself happy and avoid anything that makes yourself unhappy, even if it makes others unhappy. It's the part of you that wants the most out of life, and it grows out of your basic instinct for self-preservation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The giver is all about love and concern and the taker is our selfish side...so how can the giver be bad, or the taker be good?
Everybody recognizes the "good" in the giver and how giving can enhance relationships, but here's how a "bad" giver can ruin your marriage if all your marital choices are made solely selflessly:
*your giver is not honest....he won't tell your spouse what you need because he more concerned about your spouse feels, whether your spouse gets his needs met, than protecting your interests or your feelings. If your spouse asks the giver if it's okay to do something....even something you don't want to do...the giver says okay.
*your giver is the one who creates resentment...all that dishonesty cloaked in care....leads to misunderstandings, mixed signals, missed opportunities. The giver thinks...my spouse should KNOW what I need....just like I know what he needs.
*your giver is your martyr....endless giving creates the ever suffering spouse. Givers are praised for their selflessness, but they become very unhappy until all that's left is to somehow enjoy the pain....and get what secondary gain that offers. *givers avoid risk and change...no rocking the boat...who knows what could happen? Nope, givers like safety....even when that involves enduring discomfort.
*givers believe in unconditional love...because they don't ask for conditions. They just give.
*givers handle your tender emotions...fear, sadness, care, consideration. They also tend to be weepy and needy.
We all know how "bad" the taker can be....afterall he's the guy who makes selfish demands, angry outbursts and most of our other LBs. But how can the taker be "good"?
*your taker is the guy you need at the negotiation table....because your giver will NOT create harmony, fairness, honesty in the dealings. Without your taker, your giver will create an environment of sacrifice....leading to resentment, anger and loss of love.
*your taker is honest about what you need and gives your spouse the information to CHOOSE to show you he loves you in the way that you would like it. He doesn't require mind reading...he lays it on the table.
*your taker fights for what you need and doesn't let you sit home three weekends in a row...he makes sure you're part of the fun.
*your taker is not an enabler or codependent.
*your taker saves your marriage as often as your giver does by making sure that reciprocity exists.
*your taker is willing to take risks and make changes.
As an example, I'd like to put forward my own marriage and how my giver undermined the happiness in my marriage for years. I NEVER went into negotiations with my taker....so I never even got close to getting what I wanted. I always put my husband first. But I wasn't happy. I didn't like it.....and I BLAMED HIM for not giving me what I wanted even though I wasn't honest and he didn't know how to please me. There is no negotiation without the taker...the giver just says "fine", do what you want. I lived with resentment every time he did what he wanted. I punished him for it too. And I was not someone who he would want to spend time with in the future either because I was pretty much angry all the time.
Letting my taker out saved my marriage. Oh to be sure, I couldn't let my taker rant and rage....but once he wasn't in chains all the time, he was far less volatile. My taker is the one who found out that my husband was actually willing and pretty enthusiastice about negotiation. Instead of the old pattern...H wants to do something...I say yes...then treat him badly. The new pattern goes like this....H wants to do something, I tell him how I might feel enthusiastic about that...we come to an agreement about how we can both get what we need....and I treat him well...and we both have fun! He gets to enjoy his activities without guilt. I know that I won't be neglected because we have also made plans together. <small>[ June 26, 2004, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>
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Wow, I needed to read that. I know that I want to make my husband happy and feel safe in our marriage to love me again, but I did not realize that he could be reading my giving as a ploy so to speak. I have worried that he won't see anything and has not responded. That is not what I need to do. I need to give unconditionally. My taker needs to calm down though too. I think that person is wondering why I am not getting reciprocation too. I will try to keep this in mind when I start wanting him to give me love and attention before or when he does not feel like it.
Thansk,
Cheri
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Thanks so much, Star. Well written with many excellent points. I'm going to make a copy of it right now.
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bumping for the heck of it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
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star*bump for crk and tan
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Star, I just read your post about giver and taker...Thank you.
My H is the giver in my M. He acknowledges how he always wanted to please me, make me happy, and wanted to avoid conflict at all cost. For most our marriage I could never get my H to communicate. I want to know his opinion and I want him to be able to talk to me.
Since we have been separated he has admitted that he wanted to "please" me and his parents. He does not want to disappoint us by doing something we might not agree with or exactly what we want. He said he needs to learn to communicate effectively. Now that he realizes one of our problems he still will not communicate to me or his parents. Why? Why does a giver close up? And what can we do to help. His parents and I both miss him and want what is best for him.
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daughterofking aka wackyemotions wife of 27 yrs mom of 10 grandma of 4
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Thanks for the star*bump. I really needed the clear and concise post above. One of the problems in our marriage is that I have been hiding my taker away, and always trying to please my DW.
Me 45 Her 50 Married '94 DS15, DD13, DS12, DS9
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bump for shijeeb.
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