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I can't shake the feeling that I made the worst mistake of my life the day I married my German husband.

When he arrived to start work at our previous architecture office, I was the first person he met in the city and there was an instant mutual attraction. We spent a lot of time in office, working late together, traveled to site meetings, and within a short few weeks, started dating seriously and exclusively. As we were from the same profession, we really had a lot to talk about, and were opening up to each other about our personal lives as well. We both came from divorced homes, and naively, we both declared we would never make the same mistakes as our parents.

One persistent trait about my husband, K, bothered me in the beginning. While he is gregarious and sociable, he doesn't make a lot of sense when he states an opinion at times, eg. say, "Science Is Evil". I'm the type who would see all the shades of grey, but he would defend to death a flawed opinion/decision.

Whenever we disagreed, I just had to give in, and I soon realized he would "abandon" me at social events and functions, disappearing to socialize and drink with others, not paying much attention to me or noticing my existence.

All the red flags were flashing, and I tried to break up several times but he didn't want to, he got toxic drunk, cried, etc.

Unfortunately, I got pregnant, and a year after we met, we got married and started preparing for the arrival of my daughter. I cut back on work, and soon, another son followed. They were so dear to both of us, and my husband loves them to death. He is a very loving indulgent father, unfortunately, the inability to care for me, my feelings or my needs continued, and worsen.

It is torture to him to listen to anything I say that touched on my emotional state, he would happily gossip about others, comb through the details about child-raising, and of course it's *his* way that's the right way. Soon, to avoid fights, unpleasantness, we just spent as little time as possible together.

He resigned from the office, and I followed shortly, and he decided to start his own practice. I helped to do my share of the design work, and received a part-time pay from his office as I still had to care for the kids half of the time, even though we hired a nanny. However, since he paid me this money, he assumed that he was paying for household expenses, so every cent that I "earned" went to rent, food, bills, kids, etc., for the whole family.

I was kept in the dark always, about office income and his spending. He just told me there's nothing left. However, I felt that by working on competitions for free, he was wasting a lot of $$$ and office resources, even though he was enjoying the process of expressing his "design genius".

I have long since concluded that he is in fact a rather weak designer, not a surprise because he is so eager to prove himself, he jumps at giving all the answers, and he lacks the ability to step out of himself to judge the issues and nuances around each project to offer a more thoughtful solution.

We both have different strengths and weaknesses - I am introverted and strongly intuitive, looking at the bigger picture, taking it all in before carefully guiding the development of a design concept, stronger sense of aesthetics while he is brilliant at computer work, very professional in putting a package together, good at details, etc.

My success hits him badly, and he keeps his sense of superiority and control by shutting me out, cutting me down and occasionally, humiliating me in front of staff, even though I had helped to save a lot of projects from the ire of angry clients.

I am so stressed out putting out fires with clients and facing upset staff who are torn between our fighting in the office, both of us taking opposite approaches to each project.

We have stopped having any sex for 10 years now. We have not been on any dates, not on our anniversaries or on my birthday. We have stopped talking a long, long time ago. I bought the book "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking", in a last ditched attempt to change the direction of our marriage, and it was futile.

I have ceased to love or care for him, regrettably, I am discovering that I might be a Renter. The Taker in me just rebelled for the past year and it got ugly. I just cannot stand the sight or smell of him anymore.

We are staying together because financially, we are still insecure and rent is prohibitively expensive here, too expensive for me to move out. The kids are growing up, and they are being hurt by our frequent fights and disdain for each other.

He threatened to sue me for half of my savings, and I do have a little more cash than he does, having inherited a tiny sum from my father. However, this is too little to buy a home or support the kids through school.

His family is *horrible*, if I had met them before marrying I might have known what lied in wait for me. His father and mother screamed at the top of their lungs at the tiniest infractions, even at their grandchildren spilling a little milk, forgetting to flush the toilet, etc. and his mother is one of the most selfish and disagreeable person I have ever met who has nothing kind to say about anyone. She neglected K while having him in custody, often stayed out till late and away from home. K was almost raised by his grandmother.

In a way, I wondered if K has been damaged being raised by such parents, resulting in a self-centered, insecure, narcissistic personality with an inability to care and to love.

I was myself damaged badly by a cruel stepmother, but my father was the sweetest, most decent dad who was unfortunately cowed by my stepmother. I lived away from home at 17 to avoid my crazy stepmother, and later, left to study aboard, a high achiever academically. My father unfortunately wasted away from the stress of living and died of complications from cancer. I never got to spend enough time with him after I left.

I have always taken good care of my appearance, and have enjoyed very close, intimate relationships with other boyfriends, so this complete lack of passion, touch, hugs, kisses in our marriage is unacceptable to me, yet the Giver in me just bore the cross.

My friends were mostly conservative Christians and they actively urged me to change myself to become "happy" with what I have, a good looking, socially popular husband who doesn't cheat, and a great, indulgent father. I am told sexless marriages are common and not a reason for divorce.

I stayed, and I am so depressed I have thoughts of suicide. Unfortunately, counseling is very expensive here, $160 per hour, and we simply can't afford it.

My husband doesn't think he has been selfish or demanding in any way, he thinks that I am the one with the problem and I should just "take a pill" to cure my depression.

He refuses to read or interest himself in anything about saving the marriage. He tells me I should just go if I want to, and leave him in peace and not bother him with my "problems".

I am sssoooo unhappy, I cry all the time. I hate myself for coming across as a whiny, weak person, I have kept up a cool, confident facade. I have no idea how to stop the downward spiral deep within myself, I would appreciate any advice, I just don't seem to have anyone in my life who can offer me a way to see light at the end of the tunnel.

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Gave2Much,

Have you read Dr. Harley's books?
If so, which ones?

If you are both willing to work on your marriage, Dr. Harley can give you a plan to restore romantic love in your marriage.

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Hi GAve2Much, welcome to Marriage Builders. It sounds like you have both developed some very bad habits in your marriage that has led to a loss of love. You rightly understand that sacrifice and unreciprocated giving have led to enormous resentment in your marriage. Dr Harley is a conservative Christian and he is very much AGAINST just trying to "be happy" with a bad situation because that is how love is destroyed.

He addresses the concept of unconditional love in several of his articles:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
The same sort of advice is given in Getting the Love You Want by Hendrix (Holt Rinehart, & Winston, 1988). While the book title seems to address the issue of romantic love in marriage, the author's strategy for couples is to learn to accept each other's marital failures, rather than doing anything to overcome them. I guarantee you, if you follow this strategy, you will NOT get the love you want.
here

and here: What�s Wrong with Unconditional Love

My suggestion would be to familiarize yourself with Marriage Builders and try and sell it to him. It would be in his best interest to create a great marriage with you, but he has to see a plan and believe in the outcome. If not, Dr Harley would recommend you separate. I would start with the book Fall in Love, Stay in Love because it is a great summary of all the other books.

Here is a great article that gives an overview of the program: How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Appreciate your replies.

I have not read the books, but I have read most of the articles on the MB website, so I do understand the fundamental problems of our behavior. I found them very helpful, but as I am the one with a problem with the marriage, my husband isn't open at all to any form of communication, least of all reading up on anything.

He has logic impairment issues, and he will change facts to fit his idea of reality, so everything that has gone wrong is my fault, so he doesn't see any reasons to improve himself. He is perfectly fine with the marriage, he has been taking and taking, but he doesn't see it that way, so it is mostly "me" that is the problem according to him.

Even when I pointed out that he called me a "[censored]" 3 times in the course of a disagreement over a project yesterday, he would excuse it in some way.

I'm on my own, and in a way, I am prepared to plan and act on my own too.

MelodyLane, thank you for the links, I am keen to read them.


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Gave2Much,

Most of the spouses that Dr. Harley is involved with have a reluctant spouse.
That is what brings them to Marriage Builders.
There is hope for your marriage but you will need to carefully follow the methods explained by posters here that have successful marriages using Dr. Harley's concepts.

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The other problem is I am unsure if we ever loved each other? We were companions in the beginning in exploring the city and projects together, and we had fun occasionally cooking and hanging out together. However, I never really felt "love" from him, I can't explain it, he says he loves me and we should stay married, but it seems he really doesn't care much at all about me, what I am feeling, what I am thinking, anything at all about me.

We went to the Alpha Marriage course, but he is uninterested in doing anything that was advised. He doesn't even want to talk at all about "relationships" or feelings at all except his own.

He hangs up on me, shuts me down or cuts me off when I start talking to him about anything related to the marriage. He would sigh and roll his eyes, the "crazy" is at it again. That's what he tells our kids, "Mom is crazy, and needs psychiatric help and take a pill." This is his story to my friends too, and my friends kept telling me to change, to be more deferring, not to be a strong woman, etc.

His logic impairment also makes it extremely difficult to talk about Love Busters or Deposits to him. He just doesn't get it, even when I tried to explain blow by blow how he humiliated me in front of the staff, he refused to admit it, and it was my fault, repeated ad nauseum, etc. There is no objectivity, only his subjective perception and judgment. I even suspected "gaslighting", I was in despair how the facts can get so twisted so that it was always my fault even though he behaved atrociously, and I discovered the term. One example would be me paying for rent, food, all household expenses, kids, even his clothes with the part-time salary he paid me for my part-time work, dipping into my personal savings as inflation hits, but because he paid this salary through his office, in his mind, *he* paid for rent, household, bills, etc. I have no right to inquire of the profits and income he pocketed for himself!

I have ceased to feel love for him too, having lived starved of attention or care, and staying in this marriage because I am supposed to be a good person and shouldn't wreck the family for no good reason except for my own severe unhappiness.

I don't even know what I can look forward to in my future?

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Originally Posted by Gave2Much
Appreciate your replies.

I have not read the books, but I have read most of the articles on the MB website, so I do understand the fundamental problems of our behavior. I found them very helpful, but as I am the one with a problem with the marriage, my husband isn't open at all to any form of communication, least of all reading up on anything.

What is his benefit from doing the program? Have you tried selling this program as a benefit to HIM? Most spouses will not buy something unless there is a perceived benefit. Does he want to be a in a happy, romantic relationship with you?

See, most unhappy spouses don't really SELL the program of recovery. They present it as a drudgery that does not benefit them. If he perceives communicating with you to be a drudgery, then he will not buy that. But if he knows that he stands to greatly benefit from this program and it will bring love, happiness and SPARK to your relationship, he might be more inclined to buy it.

What is his greatest complaint about you?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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G2M, I would not tolerate his abusive behavior at all. Put him on notice that you won't tolerate it any more. Make plans to separate if it continues. You can't do anything about your marriage if he is abusive to you. That has to be addressed before you can do anything.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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His greatest complaint about me is that I am depressed and unhappy...

However, he doesn't think he needs to do anything about it, because it is simply my problem. Everything is somehow my fault.

Yes, i wish I can take a pill and sort of change into a different happy wife who will be happy living the way I am living now, with not a hug or kiss in 10 years.

It's very hard to leave because I have so little support, even moral support, because no one around me (especially my Christian friends) seems to think it's such a problem? Deep inside, my own severe unhappiness and determination to read and understand this marriage signals to me that this isn't normal, isn't right.

I keep thinking, if a switch goes off in him and he sees that it's not right to do this, but what if there's no switch and he just "is" this way?

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Originally Posted by Gave2Much
His logic impairment also makes it extremely difficult to talk about Love Busters or Deposits to him. He just doesn't get it, even when I tried to explain blow by blow how he humiliated me in front of the staff, he refused to admit it, and it was my fault, repeated ad nauseum, etc. There is no objectivity, only his subjective perception and judgment. I even suspected "gaslighting",

While you shouldn't tolerate his abuse, you also should stop being so disrespectful to him. His perspective is different from yours but that doesn't mean he is "impaired" any more than you are impaired. Being disrespectful of his views is a big part of the reason your marriage is in such bad shape. You both are very disrespectful.

If you want him to stop love busters, you have to stop them too.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Gave2Much
His greatest complaint about me is that I am depressed and unhappy...

We can show him a way to make you happy and give him the happy marriage he seeks. Would he be interested in hearing about that?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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If he is an architect he may be willing to try Dr. Harley's programs, as Harley has an engineering background and approaches marital problems from a perspective that many men, including myself can grasp on to

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It is true that logic-impaired sounds disrespectful, but I don't mean it at all in a disrespectful way in the post, but descriptive way.

For example, he would call me and said the hand drawings and sketches made by some of the juniors for a particular project were looking bad. I was anxious and agreed to stop by the office to look at them while he was out of the office, and it was true the designs were weak and nothing special, what you can see normally along any commercial street. I tried to work with the team by suggesting ideas to the juniors to have them change the designs to something more intriguing and unusual. K came into the office and started blaming me for not looking at the contract properly because I told them drawing by hand was ok when they should have used the computers to do renderings, so it was ALL my fault. He even threw the contract at me in front of the design team.

In fact, it was the design that was weak, not the medium of conveying them that was the problem.

This is what I meant by logic impairment. I just can't...use reason or logic or factual records.

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I am going to suggest it to him. I think I have not really sold it to him that way?

Kindly advise me. Is this marital situation common and salvageable? Were such marriages discussed on the Forum before?

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Quote
It is true that logic-impaired sounds disrespectful, but I don't mean it at all in a disrespectful way in the post, but descriptive way.
It doesn't matter how you MEANT it. That doesn't change the fact that it is a disrespectful judgement. You will need to learn to identify these, and eliminate them.

The two of you would benefit greatly from getting the book Lovebusters and going through it.


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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Originally Posted by Gave2Much
It is true that logic-impaired sounds disrespectful, but I don't mean it at all in a disrespectful way in the post, but descriptive way.

I am not talking about you MEANT it, but how it *IS*. It is extremely disrespectful and indicates how you view his perspective. Would it be ok if he dismissed your perspective in the same way? No, it would not be ok.

And I want to emphasize that neither is is OK for him to be abusive to you.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Gave2Much
I am going to suggest it to him. I think I have not really sold it to him that way?

Kindly advise me. Is this marital situation common and salvageable? Were such marriages discussed on the Forum before?

Your marriage is the run of the mill around here!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Hmm, what I do mean is that the facts don't follow in a pattern that is logical to me, eg. he needed better designs from the juniors, he called me and when I was there trying to get the designs improved, he came in and suddenly blamed it all on my misinterpreting the contract requirements to the juniors.

The fights, blame and anger just don't make sense to me, and I don't know how to handle them because they don't follow logic, not to me, because I am like this : Problem (K phoned me about Team's Ordinary Design)-> Analyze the Facts (Which designs can be improved) -> Find Solution (Work with team to improve designs)...suddenly -> Fight (K accused me of not interpreting contract correctly) -> Result (Design work halted, juniors perplexed)?

What I gathered is that in the midst of me trying to ratify the situation, he got angry at me for something else (contract requirements) which wasn't a problem, and wasn't what he phoned me about. So this is difficult for me, because I am seeking Cause and Effect. I don't "get" K.

Logically, we should try to solve the problem of the subpar designs, but why did it turn into another blowup about a "mistake" of mine, and in fact there was no such mistake, i.e. hand drawings are fine for this stage of the presentation?

It just jumps everywhere without rhyme or reason to me. This erupts all the time in office. It did dawn on me he might resent my working, but abortive work costs us dearly in real losses.

Last edited by Gave2Much; 10/15/14 01:11 PM.
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Would you believe I am most relieved to know?

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You dont need to analyze the conversations, but instead learn how to make love bank deposits and avoid love bank withdrawls

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