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#2867516 10/10/15 09:26 AM
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Good morning,
I am at a loss.
My wife and I have been having marital problems. I found marriage builders and decided to give it a try.
We have been reading through Love Busters over the past week. We got through chapters 1-8. Which was rather difficult. During the reading I was subjected to a lot of "you do that, and this, and that". Which I felt was disrespectful, it wasn't during the questioning portion of the chapter, it was mid sentence reading a story.
I asked her to stop, and several times had to end the reading in order to stay calm.
I admittedly have a problem with angry outbursts . I have been reading the forum and have come to the conclusion that it is probably the number 1 priority for me. I have made the decision to stop being angry. I am an intelligent person, I have excellent control over my career, etc. I feel that this is a major weakness for me. I should have better control over my emotions and not hurt my spouse.
There have been several occasions this week that I had to excuse myself to calm down and avoid an outburst.
Overall, I feel that I have made progress, but still have work to do. There have been times that I chose to carry on despite knowing I should walk away.
Throughout the reading, during the question portion of the chapters, I explained to my wife some love busters that I felt she did on a regular basis, and what I was met with was denial and a lot of "well you do that too, and you do it worse", or, "I wouldn't do that if you wouldn't do this".
I am not sure what to do anymore. I have tried waiting till we are calm and bringing up things that upset me, but I am met with "you always want to make a mountain out of a mole hill" or "can we just move past that".
I don't understand how we can improve if we don't give each other feedback.
I feel like I am constantly insulted. She calls me names. Will make disrespectful judgements. A lot of days it feels like she is searching for something to make me get angry or start an argument. She often tells me I should anticipate what she needs/wants without her needing to communicate it.
I find it incredibly difficult to avoid anger when I am being insulted and disrespected.
What should I do? Should I try to continue the program alone? Is there another way for me to communicate with her?
I am at a loss.

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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
During the reading I was subjected to a lot of "you do that, and this, and that". Which I felt was disrespectful, it wasn't during the questioning portion of the chapter, it was mid sentence reading a story.
I asked her to stop, and several times had to end the reading in order to stay calm.

Hi NovemberHotel, welcome to Marriage Builders. I would suggest that your first step is to use the program yourself, by eliminating your angry outbursts and any other destructive behavior. In the example above she told you some things you do but you felt this was disrespectful. Can you explain why? Was it her delivery? Because the goal here is to discuss and eliminate your behaviors that erode the love in your marriage. I don't know of any other way to do that unless your spouse tells you.

Are you married? If so how long? Any children? Any affairs in your histories?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Welcome to MB.

This will also help teach you how to handle your AOs. Listen to the clips in here and tell us what you think.

Anger Management 101


FWW/BW (me)
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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NH, I have been right where you are at, and it is frequently the case that the wife will not be motivated to change until the husband has changed. I encourage you to follow through with your anger management work and make sure that your outbursts are eliminated. And I encourage you to continue to complain to your wife about her disrespect, but not all the time.

In Love Busters, you'll see that Dr. Harley suggests that the two of you exchange a weekly worksheet of Love Busters. That way you are not trying to handle Love Busters on the fly, which is very dangerous for most couples starting out because it leads to fights. If your wife is not open to receiving a weekly worksheet, then I would simply complain to her once a week with a general complaint "Sometimes I feel disrespected by the things you say" for example. If she wants to hear specifics, you can offer her one specific example, and if she doesn't want to hear any more or she gets defensive, you back off, and then you bring it up again next week. In this way she has the chance through repeated exposure to your complaint to become sort of desensitized so that she's not feeling so emotional in response to your complaint and more likely to finally decide to respond to it.

All the while you must be successful in your own anger management and in avoiding Love Busters yourself, and you must also be practicing habits that make massive love bank deposits every day. If you do your part flawlessly, her feelings toward you will eventually change, and she will be much more likely to feel like responding to your complaints.

I wouldn't expect a whole lot of progress until you've kept your own love busters ELIMINATED for some time.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Everyone, thank you for the replies.

Markos, you have touched on a couple of points that escaped me.
I am going to be focused on anger management. I will also work on eliminating my love busters and meeting my wife's needs.
The major thing you have brought to light for me is the fact that we have been trying on the spot corrections. Which has only led to more fighting.
I believe she wants to work on our marriage, but because this past couple of weeks has been an increase in fighting due to "on the spot" corrections, she has become aggravated.
For now I am going to do as you suggest and only go back to a joint plan once she seems more enthusiastic.

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I've found that "on-the-spot" complaints typically become disrespectful judgments. I need time to calm down and frame complaints respectfully.

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Agree, and writing it down on paper like Marcos suggested gives you an opportunity to stick to the facts and leave out the emotion, and check for LB's before you hand it to your spouse.

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Had a really good day yesterday. No AO, or any other love busters really.

Then today my wife walks in the door and is upset/tearful. I naturally go to her and hug her and ask what is wrong. She starts in an explanation that she can't do her job and be married. Her boss told her she didn't think she her job seriously. We sat on the couch and she said she felt like she couldn't please her boss and please me. Because I have told her for a while now that she should talk to me if she is planning on work with late. It has always been optional. And I felt like she shouldn't unilaterally make the decision to work late.
Well yesterday she told her boss she would stay and work. Then I called after it was 30 minutes past her normal end time. So she mentions staying late. I told her I would like her to come home because we had plans. So her boss said she could go home.
Well she came home and we had a great evening.
I had never heard these concerns about being pulled two ways. Honestly, her hours are very light and the impression I got was that her boss wasn't that interested in working overtime.
I started to say something when she paused for a while on the couch. And she interrupted me with a hand in the face and a "don't even". So I started to feel upset, and started to get up to excuse myself. She then continued to make several disrespectful judgements, yelled (AO), and said that I was leaving her in her time of need. I just mentioned that I didn't want to stay because I was getting upset and that I didn't think I should stay and be abused. She said fine just leave me and divorce me, then I could at least do my job well.
She had a few more rude things to say and then said she needed me to comfort her. I pointed out that I comforted her when she walked in and was only interested in excusing myself when I felt I was being abused.

Anyway, I'm just not sure how to approach this. I didn't have am AO, I didn't use disrespectful judgements, or other love busters. I am sitting in my car now, just to keep calm and not continue getting disrespected.

I just need some guidance...

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I want to reiterate what markos said above:

Originally Posted by markos
In Love Busters, you'll see that Dr. Harley suggests that the two of you exchange a weekly worksheet of Love Busters. That way you are not trying to handle Love Busters on the fly, which is very dangerous for most couples starting out because it leads to fights. If your wife is not open to receiving a weekly worksheet, then I would simply complain to her once a week with a general complaint "Sometimes I feel disrespected by the things you say" for example. If she wants to hear specifics, you can offer her one specific example, and if she doesn't want to hear any more or she gets defensive, you back off, and then you bring it up again next week. In this way she has the chance through repeated exposure to your complaint to become sort of desensitized so that she's not feeling so emotional in response to your complaint and more likely to finally decide to respond to it.

All the while you must be successful in your own anger management and in avoiding Love Busters yourself, and you must also be practicing habits that make massive love bank deposits every day. If you do your part flawlessly, her feelings toward you will eventually change, and she will be much more likely to feel like responding to your complaints.

I wouldn't expect a whole lot of progress until you've kept your own love busters ELIMINATED for some time.
In the future, do not complain about her abuse in the heat of the moment. She's going to get disrespectful. She's going to have angry outbursts. Expect them, and do not respond to them at that moment. When you get off by yourself, simply write the lovebusters down and share them -- in writing -- with your wife once a week. Do not have a verbal conversation about them, especially in the moment.

So when you got up to leave when you felt frustrated, do not say "I don't want to stay because I don't think I should be abused." This is complaining to her in the heat of the moment. It will not work. She will not hear it.

Instead, just tell her you need a few moments to yourself. Make it about yourself, not her. "I need to take a few minutes to calm myself down." You can complain about her abuse at a later time, in writing.

Quote
I pointed out that I comforted her when she walked in and was only interested in excusing myself when I felt I was being abused.
Don't educate her and tell her how she should feel. This is disrespectful. Listen to the request/complaint behind her lovebusters -- she needs your comfort. She doesn't know how to ask for it, yet. All she knows is how to beat on you till she gets what she wants. Take note of the need that she is expressing, however poorly she is expressing it. And don't educate her on the fact that you are already doing what she wants you to do for her. She's letting you know that you are, in fact, not doing what she needs. Maybe you think you are, but you aren't succeeding (yet). Don't tell her how to feel about this.

So, here's what you need to do now:
1. Write down her lovebusters for today. Markos and I used to use notebooks for this, then we started using our draft folders in our email accounts. Just get them written down somewhere to refer to later.
2. CALM DOWN
3. Go back to your wife and do something affectionate for her. Expect to be rejected. Do it anyway.


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Thanks,
I really needed that.
After sitting here for a while I realized I shouldn't have pointed things out, or made it about her.
I did go show her some affection and we are doing better now.
I think a major problem I'm having is pointing things out in the heat. I need a freaking muzzle.

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The number one step in anger management:
1. SHUT UP.

It also works for disrespectful judgements.


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Do you have a GSR meter?


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Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
In most marriages, abuse begins when a conflict is introduced. For example, your wife might say that you did not dry the dishes properly. That's a form of abuse, because she is making a disrespectful judgment about your dish drying behavior. For you, the drying was just fine, but for her it wasn't. What you have is a simple difference of opinion on the way dishes should be dried, and your wife should have said that she would prefer your drying them the way she wants them to be dried.

But even though she made an abusive remark, you can end the cycle of abuse before it begins if you don't accelerate negativity (that means, matching her abuse with abuse of your own). What you should do is ignore the abuse on her side, and in your own mind re-translate what she said to be "I would prefer it if you would dry the dishes this way, instead of the way you are drying them."

However, if you are offended by the comment she made, and most people are offended by abuse, then you will be very tempted to come back with, "fine, dry them yourself next time." That is abusive because it's a demand (you are telling her what to do). Or you might be tempted to say, "you don't dry them any better that I do." That's abusive because it's disrespectful (you are judging her dish washing behavior). Or you might be tempted to let her have it with, "What a stupid thing to say -- you sure are full of stupid comments today." That's an angry outburst because what you say is intended to punish her for the comment she made to you. As soon as you respond to your wife's abusive comment with an abusive comment of your own, you have created a cycle of abuse where you are both abusing each other.

Your wife might then respond to your abuse with more abuse. It may be a selfish demand, it may be a disrespectful judgment, or it may be an angry outburst. That will escalate negativity even more. Then you respond with more abuse, she responds again, and on and on. Every argument is abusive, and whenever you argue or fight, think to yourself, "we are being abusive to each other. I must somehow stop this cycle of abuse."
Read more here: Abusive Marriage #2


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Welcome to MB.

This will also help teach you how to handle your AOs. Listen to the clips in here and tell us what you think.

Anger Management 101
Did you listen to ALL the clips in the anger management thread?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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No, I only listened to the primary post clips. I will go through the rest of the thread and listen today.

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Originally Posted by Prisca
Do you have a GSR meter?

No, I will look into purchasing one today.

#3003722 05/07/18 12:45 PM
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Hello,
I was on here a few years ago. My wife and I were having marital problems. I came on here looking for guidance. I have anger issues. I also am controlling. I never admitted these things before. I spent most of the time blaming her for my anger, and justifying my controlling behavior as POJA or saying she was using "independent behavior". I suffered from many AOs over the years. The AOs have become more and more frequent, and the intensity has increased as well. There have been times when I have had physical altercations with my wife. She has also hit me, but I feel that I cannot clearly judge what took place since I was having AOs when these events happened.
We now have a 16 months old son. She has told me several times that I need to get help, she has threatened to leave, she has gone to stay with her mom. But every time I have convinced her to come back. I resisted separation repeatedly, saying that I could fix the problem without separation. I also resisted counseling until very recently.
A couple of weeks ago I went for my initial counseling session. It was mostly just in-processing questions, very little guidance or help with anger management. She had told me there were improvements, but that it wasn't enough.
I had basically abandoned Marriage Builders to the point that it didn't even come to mind.
Wednesday, my wife tried to leave. I convinced her to stay, but she reminded me constantly that she was unhappy. We had good times together while she was here for the past few days. We had sex several times. We joked. I was doing a fair job at controlling my temper, but I did relapse a couple of times. Then I had to work Saturday, she dropped me off as we share a car. She came and had lunch with me, and we had a nice lunch. Then that afternoon she texted me and said she can't do this anymore, she was leaving and that it is over.
She took the car, packed her bags, and left me at work that afternoon.
I was heartbroken. I can't even begin to describe the anguish and hurt that I have felt these past couple of days. She has refused to talk to me on the phone, she will occasionally text. She said she won't talk to me on the phone, because I will manipulate her into staying. The first day I called repeatedly and texted over and over again begging her to stay. I wept so much. The next day, I began to realize that this was all of my fault. That was a painful realization.
I told her that I needed help. I sought more counseling, I ordered books. I began to study and read on this website again. Most of her texts have been about the fact that I need to fix myself for my son. Which I agree with 100%. She says that we are over. I told her that she was right for leaving, and that I need to fix myself before we can have a chance together. I want her to be safe. But she continually alludes to the fact that there is no future for us.

I know that I need help, I am working on that aspect. But with such a large mountain in front of me, I am having trouble figuring it all out. I want to keep texting her, but I am afraid I am only driving her away more. She visits her mom and dad frequently. They are divorced and live in separate states. Oftentimes, I believe her visits are to get away from me. I have been very stressed lately, which has only worsened my AOs. Also, she has had a lot of stress externally lately. Her grandparents are very sick. She had to get rid of her dog that she has had for 5 years, it bit the baby. We recently moved to another state about 8 months ago. We didn't really have any family or friends here. It was a good job opportunity for me, and I honestly thought she was in agreement on the move. But I feel like it has only worsened our relationship.

I am so terrified of losing her and my son. Please tell me what I need to do. At this point I am willing to do whatever it takes. I believe that up until now, with her always coming back and me just apologizing, there was no incentive to really stick to the program. I made the excuse that my AOs were because of the things she did to set me off. I never truly accepted the idea that no one can "make" me angry.

Yesterday and today I listened to all the radio clips on the Anger Management 101 thread. I am also working through the Angry Outbursts chapter in Love Busters. I have counseling sessions scheduled.
How should I approach her, so as not to drive her further away? I know this is going to be a long process, and that we need to remain separated. I am not looking for a quick fix.

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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
I told her that I needed help. I sought more counseling, I ordered books. I began to study and read on this website again. Most of her texts have been about the fact that I need to fix myself for my son. Which I agree with 100%. She says that we are over. I told her that she was right for leaving, and that I need to fix myself before we can have a chance together. I want her to be safe. But she continually alludes to the fact that there is no future for us.


Hello November. I would suggest that you respect her wishes and leave her alone. She should have nothing to do with you unless and until you complete anger management and demonstrate at least a year of controlled behavior. All of the above is window dressing and not a real solution. You need to find a qualified anger management course that focuses on relaxation techniques.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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What was your old screen name?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Same as this one. I didn't create a new one.

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