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#2867516 10/10/15 09:26 AM
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Good morning,
I am at a loss.
My wife and I have been having marital problems. I found marriage builders and decided to give it a try.
We have been reading through Love Busters over the past week. We got through chapters 1-8. Which was rather difficult. During the reading I was subjected to a lot of "you do that, and this, and that". Which I felt was disrespectful, it wasn't during the questioning portion of the chapter, it was mid sentence reading a story.
I asked her to stop, and several times had to end the reading in order to stay calm.
I admittedly have a problem with angry outbursts . I have been reading the forum and have come to the conclusion that it is probably the number 1 priority for me. I have made the decision to stop being angry. I am an intelligent person, I have excellent control over my career, etc. I feel that this is a major weakness for me. I should have better control over my emotions and not hurt my spouse.
There have been several occasions this week that I had to excuse myself to calm down and avoid an outburst.
Overall, I feel that I have made progress, but still have work to do. There have been times that I chose to carry on despite knowing I should walk away.
Throughout the reading, during the question portion of the chapters, I explained to my wife some love busters that I felt she did on a regular basis, and what I was met with was denial and a lot of "well you do that too, and you do it worse", or, "I wouldn't do that if you wouldn't do this".
I am not sure what to do anymore. I have tried waiting till we are calm and bringing up things that upset me, but I am met with "you always want to make a mountain out of a mole hill" or "can we just move past that".
I don't understand how we can improve if we don't give each other feedback.
I feel like I am constantly insulted. She calls me names. Will make disrespectful judgements. A lot of days it feels like she is searching for something to make me get angry or start an argument. She often tells me I should anticipate what she needs/wants without her needing to communicate it.
I find it incredibly difficult to avoid anger when I am being insulted and disrespected.
What should I do? Should I try to continue the program alone? Is there another way for me to communicate with her?
I am at a loss.

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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
During the reading I was subjected to a lot of "you do that, and this, and that". Which I felt was disrespectful, it wasn't during the questioning portion of the chapter, it was mid sentence reading a story.
I asked her to stop, and several times had to end the reading in order to stay calm.

Hi NovemberHotel, welcome to Marriage Builders. I would suggest that your first step is to use the program yourself, by eliminating your angry outbursts and any other destructive behavior. In the example above she told you some things you do but you felt this was disrespectful. Can you explain why? Was it her delivery? Because the goal here is to discuss and eliminate your behaviors that erode the love in your marriage. I don't know of any other way to do that unless your spouse tells you.

Are you married? If so how long? Any children? Any affairs in your histories?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Welcome to MB.

This will also help teach you how to handle your AOs. Listen to the clips in here and tell us what you think.

Anger Management 101


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NH, I have been right where you are at, and it is frequently the case that the wife will not be motivated to change until the husband has changed. I encourage you to follow through with your anger management work and make sure that your outbursts are eliminated. And I encourage you to continue to complain to your wife about her disrespect, but not all the time.

In Love Busters, you'll see that Dr. Harley suggests that the two of you exchange a weekly worksheet of Love Busters. That way you are not trying to handle Love Busters on the fly, which is very dangerous for most couples starting out because it leads to fights. If your wife is not open to receiving a weekly worksheet, then I would simply complain to her once a week with a general complaint "Sometimes I feel disrespected by the things you say" for example. If she wants to hear specifics, you can offer her one specific example, and if she doesn't want to hear any more or she gets defensive, you back off, and then you bring it up again next week. In this way she has the chance through repeated exposure to your complaint to become sort of desensitized so that she's not feeling so emotional in response to your complaint and more likely to finally decide to respond to it.

All the while you must be successful in your own anger management and in avoiding Love Busters yourself, and you must also be practicing habits that make massive love bank deposits every day. If you do your part flawlessly, her feelings toward you will eventually change, and she will be much more likely to feel like responding to your complaints.

I wouldn't expect a whole lot of progress until you've kept your own love busters ELIMINATED for some time.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Everyone, thank you for the replies.

Markos, you have touched on a couple of points that escaped me.
I am going to be focused on anger management. I will also work on eliminating my love busters and meeting my wife's needs.
The major thing you have brought to light for me is the fact that we have been trying on the spot corrections. Which has only led to more fighting.
I believe she wants to work on our marriage, but because this past couple of weeks has been an increase in fighting due to "on the spot" corrections, she has become aggravated.
For now I am going to do as you suggest and only go back to a joint plan once she seems more enthusiastic.

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I've found that "on-the-spot" complaints typically become disrespectful judgments. I need time to calm down and frame complaints respectfully.

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Agree, and writing it down on paper like Marcos suggested gives you an opportunity to stick to the facts and leave out the emotion, and check for LB's before you hand it to your spouse.

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Had a really good day yesterday. No AO, or any other love busters really.

Then today my wife walks in the door and is upset/tearful. I naturally go to her and hug her and ask what is wrong. She starts in an explanation that she can't do her job and be married. Her boss told her she didn't think she her job seriously. We sat on the couch and she said she felt like she couldn't please her boss and please me. Because I have told her for a while now that she should talk to me if she is planning on work with late. It has always been optional. And I felt like she shouldn't unilaterally make the decision to work late.
Well yesterday she told her boss she would stay and work. Then I called after it was 30 minutes past her normal end time. So she mentions staying late. I told her I would like her to come home because we had plans. So her boss said she could go home.
Well she came home and we had a great evening.
I had never heard these concerns about being pulled two ways. Honestly, her hours are very light and the impression I got was that her boss wasn't that interested in working overtime.
I started to say something when she paused for a while on the couch. And she interrupted me with a hand in the face and a "don't even". So I started to feel upset, and started to get up to excuse myself. She then continued to make several disrespectful judgements, yelled (AO), and said that I was leaving her in her time of need. I just mentioned that I didn't want to stay because I was getting upset and that I didn't think I should stay and be abused. She said fine just leave me and divorce me, then I could at least do my job well.
She had a few more rude things to say and then said she needed me to comfort her. I pointed out that I comforted her when she walked in and was only interested in excusing myself when I felt I was being abused.

Anyway, I'm just not sure how to approach this. I didn't have am AO, I didn't use disrespectful judgements, or other love busters. I am sitting in my car now, just to keep calm and not continue getting disrespected.

I just need some guidance...

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I want to reiterate what markos said above:

Originally Posted by markos
In Love Busters, you'll see that Dr. Harley suggests that the two of you exchange a weekly worksheet of Love Busters. That way you are not trying to handle Love Busters on the fly, which is very dangerous for most couples starting out because it leads to fights. If your wife is not open to receiving a weekly worksheet, then I would simply complain to her once a week with a general complaint "Sometimes I feel disrespected by the things you say" for example. If she wants to hear specifics, you can offer her one specific example, and if she doesn't want to hear any more or she gets defensive, you back off, and then you bring it up again next week. In this way she has the chance through repeated exposure to your complaint to become sort of desensitized so that she's not feeling so emotional in response to your complaint and more likely to finally decide to respond to it.

All the while you must be successful in your own anger management and in avoiding Love Busters yourself, and you must also be practicing habits that make massive love bank deposits every day. If you do your part flawlessly, her feelings toward you will eventually change, and she will be much more likely to feel like responding to your complaints.

I wouldn't expect a whole lot of progress until you've kept your own love busters ELIMINATED for some time.
In the future, do not complain about her abuse in the heat of the moment. She's going to get disrespectful. She's going to have angry outbursts. Expect them, and do not respond to them at that moment. When you get off by yourself, simply write the lovebusters down and share them -- in writing -- with your wife once a week. Do not have a verbal conversation about them, especially in the moment.

So when you got up to leave when you felt frustrated, do not say "I don't want to stay because I don't think I should be abused." This is complaining to her in the heat of the moment. It will not work. She will not hear it.

Instead, just tell her you need a few moments to yourself. Make it about yourself, not her. "I need to take a few minutes to calm myself down." You can complain about her abuse at a later time, in writing.

Quote
I pointed out that I comforted her when she walked in and was only interested in excusing myself when I felt I was being abused.
Don't educate her and tell her how she should feel. This is disrespectful. Listen to the request/complaint behind her lovebusters -- she needs your comfort. She doesn't know how to ask for it, yet. All she knows is how to beat on you till she gets what she wants. Take note of the need that she is expressing, however poorly she is expressing it. And don't educate her on the fact that you are already doing what she wants you to do for her. She's letting you know that you are, in fact, not doing what she needs. Maybe you think you are, but you aren't succeeding (yet). Don't tell her how to feel about this.

So, here's what you need to do now:
1. Write down her lovebusters for today. Markos and I used to use notebooks for this, then we started using our draft folders in our email accounts. Just get them written down somewhere to refer to later.
2. CALM DOWN
3. Go back to your wife and do something affectionate for her. Expect to be rejected. Do it anyway.


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Thanks,
I really needed that.
After sitting here for a while I realized I shouldn't have pointed things out, or made it about her.
I did go show her some affection and we are doing better now.
I think a major problem I'm having is pointing things out in the heat. I need a freaking muzzle.

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The number one step in anger management:
1. SHUT UP.

It also works for disrespectful judgements.


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Do you have a GSR meter?


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Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
In most marriages, abuse begins when a conflict is introduced. For example, your wife might say that you did not dry the dishes properly. That's a form of abuse, because she is making a disrespectful judgment about your dish drying behavior. For you, the drying was just fine, but for her it wasn't. What you have is a simple difference of opinion on the way dishes should be dried, and your wife should have said that she would prefer your drying them the way she wants them to be dried.

But even though she made an abusive remark, you can end the cycle of abuse before it begins if you don't accelerate negativity (that means, matching her abuse with abuse of your own). What you should do is ignore the abuse on her side, and in your own mind re-translate what she said to be "I would prefer it if you would dry the dishes this way, instead of the way you are drying them."

However, if you are offended by the comment she made, and most people are offended by abuse, then you will be very tempted to come back with, "fine, dry them yourself next time." That is abusive because it's a demand (you are telling her what to do). Or you might be tempted to say, "you don't dry them any better that I do." That's abusive because it's disrespectful (you are judging her dish washing behavior). Or you might be tempted to let her have it with, "What a stupid thing to say -- you sure are full of stupid comments today." That's an angry outburst because what you say is intended to punish her for the comment she made to you. As soon as you respond to your wife's abusive comment with an abusive comment of your own, you have created a cycle of abuse where you are both abusing each other.

Your wife might then respond to your abuse with more abuse. It may be a selfish demand, it may be a disrespectful judgment, or it may be an angry outburst. That will escalate negativity even more. Then you respond with more abuse, she responds again, and on and on. Every argument is abusive, and whenever you argue or fight, think to yourself, "we are being abusive to each other. I must somehow stop this cycle of abuse."
Read more here: Abusive Marriage #2


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Welcome to MB.

This will also help teach you how to handle your AOs. Listen to the clips in here and tell us what you think.

Anger Management 101
Did you listen to ALL the clips in the anger management thread?


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No, I only listened to the primary post clips. I will go through the rest of the thread and listen today.

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Originally Posted by Prisca
Do you have a GSR meter?

No, I will look into purchasing one today.

#3003722 05/07/18 12:45 PM
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Hello,
I was on here a few years ago. My wife and I were having marital problems. I came on here looking for guidance. I have anger issues. I also am controlling. I never admitted these things before. I spent most of the time blaming her for my anger, and justifying my controlling behavior as POJA or saying she was using "independent behavior". I suffered from many AOs over the years. The AOs have become more and more frequent, and the intensity has increased as well. There have been times when I have had physical altercations with my wife. She has also hit me, but I feel that I cannot clearly judge what took place since I was having AOs when these events happened.
We now have a 16 months old son. She has told me several times that I need to get help, she has threatened to leave, she has gone to stay with her mom. But every time I have convinced her to come back. I resisted separation repeatedly, saying that I could fix the problem without separation. I also resisted counseling until very recently.
A couple of weeks ago I went for my initial counseling session. It was mostly just in-processing questions, very little guidance or help with anger management. She had told me there were improvements, but that it wasn't enough.
I had basically abandoned Marriage Builders to the point that it didn't even come to mind.
Wednesday, my wife tried to leave. I convinced her to stay, but she reminded me constantly that she was unhappy. We had good times together while she was here for the past few days. We had sex several times. We joked. I was doing a fair job at controlling my temper, but I did relapse a couple of times. Then I had to work Saturday, she dropped me off as we share a car. She came and had lunch with me, and we had a nice lunch. Then that afternoon she texted me and said she can't do this anymore, she was leaving and that it is over.
She took the car, packed her bags, and left me at work that afternoon.
I was heartbroken. I can't even begin to describe the anguish and hurt that I have felt these past couple of days. She has refused to talk to me on the phone, she will occasionally text. She said she won't talk to me on the phone, because I will manipulate her into staying. The first day I called repeatedly and texted over and over again begging her to stay. I wept so much. The next day, I began to realize that this was all of my fault. That was a painful realization.
I told her that I needed help. I sought more counseling, I ordered books. I began to study and read on this website again. Most of her texts have been about the fact that I need to fix myself for my son. Which I agree with 100%. She says that we are over. I told her that she was right for leaving, and that I need to fix myself before we can have a chance together. I want her to be safe. But she continually alludes to the fact that there is no future for us.

I know that I need help, I am working on that aspect. But with such a large mountain in front of me, I am having trouble figuring it all out. I want to keep texting her, but I am afraid I am only driving her away more. She visits her mom and dad frequently. They are divorced and live in separate states. Oftentimes, I believe her visits are to get away from me. I have been very stressed lately, which has only worsened my AOs. Also, she has had a lot of stress externally lately. Her grandparents are very sick. She had to get rid of her dog that she has had for 5 years, it bit the baby. We recently moved to another state about 8 months ago. We didn't really have any family or friends here. It was a good job opportunity for me, and I honestly thought she was in agreement on the move. But I feel like it has only worsened our relationship.

I am so terrified of losing her and my son. Please tell me what I need to do. At this point I am willing to do whatever it takes. I believe that up until now, with her always coming back and me just apologizing, there was no incentive to really stick to the program. I made the excuse that my AOs were because of the things she did to set me off. I never truly accepted the idea that no one can "make" me angry.

Yesterday and today I listened to all the radio clips on the Anger Management 101 thread. I am also working through the Angry Outbursts chapter in Love Busters. I have counseling sessions scheduled.
How should I approach her, so as not to drive her further away? I know this is going to be a long process, and that we need to remain separated. I am not looking for a quick fix.

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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
I told her that I needed help. I sought more counseling, I ordered books. I began to study and read on this website again. Most of her texts have been about the fact that I need to fix myself for my son. Which I agree with 100%. She says that we are over. I told her that she was right for leaving, and that I need to fix myself before we can have a chance together. I want her to be safe. But she continually alludes to the fact that there is no future for us.


Hello November. I would suggest that you respect her wishes and leave her alone. She should have nothing to do with you unless and until you complete anger management and demonstrate at least a year of controlled behavior. All of the above is window dressing and not a real solution. You need to find a qualified anger management course that focuses on relaxation techniques.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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What was your old screen name?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Same as this one. I didn't create a new one.

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I got an appointment with a LPC today. Is there anything specific that I should request. He did my in-processing a few weeks ago, but I wasn't really sure what I was looking for.

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if you listen to the radio clips by Dr Harley he explains what is necessary. It must be based on relaxation techniques in order to be successful.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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lots of great advice in this thread....


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Have you listened to the radio clips in Anger Management 101


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Yes, I listened to all the radio clips. I assumed there had to be more than just learning to relax.
Easier said than done, I suppose.

My counseling session today was somewhat helpful. But I am not sure that my counselor is experienced in teaching relaxation techniques, so I may need to look for another one. He kept talking about changing my perspective, and using "I" statements. So I tried to explain to him that the problem was me, and that I needed to learn how to relax before I could use "I" statements.

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Have you looked into buying a Galvanic skin response reader that Dr. Harley recommends?


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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
Originally Posted by Prisca
Do you have a GSR meter?

No, I will look into purchasing one today.
I just noticed on your thread in 2015 you were going to buy one. Did you?


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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
Yes, I listened to all the radio clips. I assumed there had to be more than just learning to relax.


That really is the main thing. And here is more of what you need to know:

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_neg.html


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
Originally Posted by Prisca
Do you have a GSR meter?

No, I will look into purchasing one today.
I just noticed on your thread in 2015 you were going to buy one. Did you?

Not purchasing and using GSR meter is one way I can tell when a man isn't serious. So I'm curious: did you buy one in 2015? If not, have you bought one now? If you did buy one back then, do you still have it? If you have one, have you ever used the thing?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Quote
I assumed there had to be more than just learning to relax.
Why?


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
I assumed there had to be more than just learning to relax.
Why?
Why are you looking for more to do if you haven't even done this?


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Quote
I was doing a fair job at controlling my temper, but I did relapse a couple of times.
This is sugar coating the problem.
You weren't doing a "fair job" if you "relapsed."
In fact, "relapsed" is a poor choice of a word. It minimizes what you did.
You didn't relapse. You abused your wife.

You. Abused. Your. Wife.

Quote
Then that afternoon she texted me and said she can't do this anymore, she was leaving and that it is over.
She took the car, packed her bags, and left me at work that afternoon.
Good for her.

If you want to make this right, you are going to have to stop weeping and begging.

You will need to get to work.

Get a GSR meter.
Call Dr. Harley.


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GSR Meter ordered. It will be here tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
GSR Meter ordered. It will be here tomorrow.

hurray

Originally Posted by Prisca
Call Dr. Harley.

Do this, too. Send Dr. Harley an email on his radio show and go on the show.

(Just think, if you'd been listening to the show every day since you were first here you would be such an expert by now. I had to listen to Dr. Harley talk about anger dozens of times before I was finally persuaded that I had to actually stop having angry outbursts. Let him persuade you!)


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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
GSR Meter ordered. It will be here tomorrow.
Then what?


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I need to call Dr. Harley.

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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
I need to call Dr. Harley.
When do you plan on doing that?


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I am trying to figure out who I should be calling. Am I calling Steve Harley to set up a counseling appointment. Or am I calling Dr. Harley on the Radio Program?

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Email Dr. Harley

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.


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I emailed Dr. Harley.

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Wonderful! hurray

What did you tell him?

Let us know when he responds.


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I tried to best explain the entire evolution of my angry outbursts and abuse.
I tried to be as factual as possible. It started with angry outbursts, name-calling, and ridicule. Eventually it led to jealousy and control. Then to physical restraint, trying to stop her from leaving. Then it went to isolation.
I truly want to change. Now I am taking the steps.

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I will be a caller on the show today.

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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
I will be a caller on the show today.
Fantastic. Let us know what he says.


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I listened to it. Dr. Harley sounded like he had high hopes for you. What do you think of what he said? What stood out the most?


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I do like that I now have a new analogy for not keeping up with doing the program ...
Put down the cookie, NovemberHotel smile


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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
I will be a caller on the show today.

Great job getting after it and doing this, NovemberHotel. Now - follow the advice! smile

Listening to the show right now...


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Dr. Harley told me to do exactly what all of you have told me. The difference between now and before, is that I am ready to do this. Before I constantly justified my actions and blamed others. Now I realize that I am the reason for my angry outbursts.
I am taking this day by day. Thank you all for your help.
I intend on keeping all of you updated on my progress.

I know it has only been a few days, but I feel immensely better. I feel more relaxed, and happier. Not feeling constant anger is really having an impact on my wellbeing.

I have also been meditating for 5 minutes in the morning. Just focusing on breathing and relaxing my muscles. In addition to the GSR work.

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This is good, November.

I also noticed Dr. Harley told you to send him an email once a week - do this! That, as well as talking to us, will help you stick to it.

If you start to feel worried about lack of progress, post here rather than venting any frustrations to your wife.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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I let my wife know that I was on the show. She texted me to tell me that she was upset that I went on a program to share our personal lives, and that it was permanently out there for people to hear. I apologized, and just explained I was trying to get help.

Later, after she listened to it. She asked me several times for the letter that I sent. I reluctantly sent it today. She feels that I downplayed the physical aspect of the abuse. I didn't intend to do this. I want to be clear, that I physically restrained her, and at times had even hit her. She also reminded me that I had threatened to kill her if she left, several times. I honestly didn't think of this when writing the letter. Reading her texts about this really made me consider what Dr. Harley says in the books about being "insane" when you are angry. I cannot believe the things that I have said and done in the past while angry.

She spoke with me at length today on the phone. She told me that she feels she has PTSD from our relationship. She said that she would get a bad feeling and tense up when she knew I was on my way home from work.
However, she has been texting me things about what she is doing, like what she made for dinner. And she was talking to me on the phone about things unrelated to our son. Just small talk.
Also, I don't know if it is relevant, but we had fairly regular sex before she left. She still became aroused and climaxed when having sex with me.

She still says that she is not interested in making any commitment to work it out. She also said she is afraid to file for divorce because of what my reaction might be.�

She is apprehensive to let me see my son, because she is worried that I will try to keep him.

She is also concerned about coming to visit when my parents are here. They are incredibly pushy, and prone to angry outbursts themselves. They are invasive and can be mean and manipulative. To be honest, I am a little nervous about them coming. But at the same time, they have given me support.

She is currently out of state. It is very difficult being away from my son. However, I know that I need to work on this anger. I have not had any angry outbursts to anything since the day after she left.

I have brought up the idea of her coming back to live nearby in another place, since she is not interested in being in the place we were together in. But she said she doesn't want to talk about that right now.
She doesn't have a job or car right now, and says she feels to dependent on me.�She keeps asking me to buy her a car.

What should I do?

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Just to clarify. She had threatened to kill me in my sleep jokingly. I jokingly said it would be easier to killer her than divorce. Later when i was angry it came up repeatedly. I was using it to control her and try to stop her from leaving.

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There's some good signs here, November. She is talking to you. Every time you have a pleasant conversation with her, that's love bank deposits in your account.

My wife Prisca would definitely identify with the feeling of PTSD from our early marriage.

As far as a commitment from your wife, her reaction sounds normal to me. That is probably frustrating to you as it would be to many husbands, but if you want her to feel committed you are going to need to change her feelings by your behavior. It's absolutely not safe for her to commit to somebody who threatened to kill her, right?

What should you do? Focus on making love bank deposits where she will let you, but most importantly focus on learning to avoid angry outbursts AT ALL COSTS NO MATTER WHAT. You can't afford to have even one angry outburst ever again.

Make sure that "working on anger" is not code for "doing nothing" like it used to be for me.

Can you buy her a car? I would do that, if you can. Take care of her.

Don't subject your wife to your parents. Their angry outbursts and disrespect will actually make love bank withdrawals from your account! I know this from personal experience. You cannot afford that if you want to win your wife back. Your wife not ever feel enthusiastic about being around your parents again, and that's okay. It's good that they are providing you support especially if they help to keep you on track and working this program that can make the difference you need, but remember that your wife is the victim here and support for her is far more important than support for you.

Advice I got from Steve Harley, Dr. Harley's son and a counselor himself: embark on a Marriage Builders program of education. Read the books (especially Love Busters), listen to the radio show daily (have you listened to today's show, yet? I needed hundreds of hours of this education.), read the articles and Q&A columns, read other people's situations on the forum. Become an expert in Marriage Builders so you can be an expert in saving your marriage.


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Quote
I have brought up the idea of her coming back to live nearby in another place, since she is not interested in being in the place we were together in. But she said she doesn't want to talk about that right now.
Instead of having her come visit you, where she will feel vulnerable, go to where she is. Visit her where she feels safe.

Consider moving to where she is at, later when she is willing to talk about it. She may never want to return to your current location, with all the traumatic memories.

Last edited by Prisca; 05/11/18 02:01 PM.

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Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
I have brought up the idea of her coming back to live nearby in another place, since she is not interested in being in the place we were together in. But she said she doesn't want to talk about that right now.
Instead of having her come visit you, where she will feel vulnerable, go to where she is. Visit her where she feels safe.

Consider moving to where she is at, later when she is willing to talk about it. She may never want to return to your current location, with all the traumatic memories.

This is good advice - Dr. Harley is a big proponent of the idea that our habits are influenced tremendously by our environment and a move can create new marital habits.


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We have talked several times on the phone today. She mentioned that she misses one of the grocery stores we shop at here. I try to be caring and compassionate. I haven't had any angry outbursts, and I won't ever again! I worry that I apologize too much and that I bring up things that I did wrong. Is this helpful or hurting? I tell her what I regret doing and apologize.

I definitely am not letting my parents interact with her.

I can definitely buy her a car. A small part of me is scared she is just trying to use me. However, I have not shared that with her.


I have been listening to the show everyday. I am also reading the books and practicing relaxation.

As far as moving to where she is, I have brought it up. She said she didn't want me making any changes like that right now.
I brought up the car and asked where she was registering it, and she said she was registering it where I live.

She stated that her plan is to remain with her dad out of state until Summer is over.

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Also, she will be chit chatting with me. Then all of a sudden she will say that the baby isn't talking and sounds frustrated like she didnt intend to have a conversation with me.

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November, if you're having peaceful conversations with her, that is good and is probably making love bank deposits. If she brings up things that you did in the past that hurt her, by all means apologize to her and assure her you won't do these things again, but don't bring them up yourself.

Read what Dr. Harley has to say about the friends and enemies of good conversation:

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5056_qa.html


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Just wanted to keep everyone updated.

I am working hard at the program. No angry outbursts. Feeling calmer overall. I had another counseling session, and took Love Busters to the counselor so he could be on the same page as me.

I purchased a car today for my wife.

We have been talking regularly. I am skyping with my son at least 2 times a day. We talked for about 3 hours yesterday. Mostly positive, and she occasionally brings up past mistakes.

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Sounds like great progress, NovemberHotel!


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Just looking for some further guidance.
I am currently practicing with the GSR meter daily. However, I am unclear with how much, etc...I work well with structure. I am able to conjure aggravating thoughts and watch the meter rise. Then I am able to get back to baseline pretty quickly at this point, usually within 45-90 seconds. I recall someone mentioning, I think it was Dr. Harley, that getting to baseline or the numbers are not important, just that you get the response, e.g. Meter goes up with anger, and then starts coming down with relaxation. Rather than worrying about actual magnitude of change.
How many reps of this should I be doing. I feel I am becoming rather proficient.

What other ways should I be challenging myself?

I am 100% committed to this, and I want to be sure I am doing everything I can.

Thanks for your feedback.

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Wife is becoming more confrontational.
Before she was talking to me quite a bit. Now she often voices that she is dissatisfied that she has "given in" this much. Says that she feels she doesn't think she can forgive me.
I have mentioned several times that I think we should consider doing the marriage builders program. She seems only interested in getting a car.

Additionally, she would not allow me to move where she is. She even said she did not want to stay there.
She insists she is staying there for the summer. I miss my son so much.
I get very worried because it is a place where she grew up with a lot of exes.

Some of my concerns:
She feels that because she has talked to me so much that I am manipulating her.
She feels she wont be able to forgive me.
I notice some of my controlling behaviors coming out, like asking if she is hanging out with other guys.
I feel as thought i am pushing the idea of rekindling our love as a solution to her not being able to forgive.

I am just feeling frustrated. I want to talk to her, but i dont want it to be damaging to our relationship. I am very alone here, no real friends or family to talk to.

She also told me that her friend there is basically very against me and tells her thay people cant change, she has been in abusive relationships in the past.

Looking for advice and encouragement.

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November, this sounds good to me. When I was winning my wife back what I found was that she became annoyed as we grew closer. It bothered her that after she had completely written me off suddenly I was charming and attractive to her. As a matter of fact it was a bit like trying to get close to a porcupine. Some women actually test their husbands, sometimes intentionally or sometimes without thinking about it, to see how you react if she pushes you away or says something discouraging. The key is to stay the course: tell her you want to be with her because she is special to you, and you will be sorry if she chooses not to be with you, but don't pressure her or become demanding, disrespectful, judgmental, angry, or upset in any way. (If you do feel upset, save that for when you are alone or here on this board. Don't let her see it.)

I would not mention Marriage Builders to your wife for now. Just keep making love bank deposits and avoiding love bank withdrawals. That is what will change her feelings.


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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
Just looking for some further guidance.
I am currently practicing with the GSR meter daily. However, I am unclear with how much, etc...I work well with structure. I am able to conjure aggravating thoughts and watch the meter rise. Then I am able to get back to baseline pretty quickly at this point, usually within 45-90 seconds. I recall someone mentioning, I think it was Dr. Harley, that getting to baseline or the numbers are not important, just that you get the response, e.g. Meter goes up with anger, and then starts coming down with relaxation. Rather than worrying about actual magnitude of change.
How many reps of this should I be doing. I feel I am becoming rather proficient.

What other ways should I be challenging myself?

I am 100% committed to this, and I want to be sure I am doing everything I can.

Thanks for your feedback.

I'd suggest using that meter 3-5 times per day, on a set schedule. Reread this article which talks about use of the meter: https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_neg.html You'll notice it talks about stages of mastery:

1) able to keep yourself calm on the meter when you are alone
2) able to keep yourself calm on the meter when you are alone and thinking about an issue which frustrates you
3) able to keep yourself calm on the meter when you are with your spouse and talking about something which frustrates you

The goal is to become able to stay relaxed even in the face of frustration. This is going to really benefit your wife and be very attractive to her. And it's going to really benefit you. You are literally rewiring your brain.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Here is your show NovemberHotel�s Show


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Here is your show NovemberHotel’s Show

Thank you!

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The car should be there tomorrow. I shipped it today.

She has said she wants space, and is requesting that we limit our interactions. She now only wants to speak on the phone for 20 minutes per day.

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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
The car should be there tomorrow. I shipped it today.

She has said she wants space, and is requesting that we limit our interactions. She now only wants to speak on the phone for 20 minutes per day.

Great job on the car :-)

Women find men that make them laugh irrestistible. Use that 20 minute call to make her giggle.


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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
The car should be there tomorrow. I shipped it today.

She has said she wants space, and is requesting that we limit our interactions. She now only wants to speak on the phone for 20 minutes per day.

November, she is going to test to make sure that she is free to leave. She is going to have one foot out the door for a very long time until she feels safe and finds, consistently, that you won't become demanding, disrespectful, or angry about it.

She's giving you a 20 minute tryout every day. Don't use the time to try to persuade her to work on your marriage. Use the time to make love bank deposits and avoid withdrawals. Use the time to practice and demonstrate the friends of good conversation and to practice avoiding the enemies of good conversation:
https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5056_qa.html (Reread this daily - better yet reread the conversation chapter in His Needs Her Needs daily)


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Originally Posted by NovemberHotel
She has said she wants space, and is requesting that we limit our interactions. She now only wants to speak on the phone for 20 minutes per day.
She will test you. How are you going to react to her insistence on only 20 minutes a day? Are you going to twist her arm? Are you going to insist she do it your way? Are you gonna blow up? She's watching.

She must feel absolutely no pressure from you whatsoever. She must be allowed to have one foot out the door.

Concentrate on fun conversation. Talk about the kids.


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Yes, I am learning to not pressure. I am avoiding demands, disrespect and anger. My control of anger has improved immensely since starting down this path. I have had zero outbursts in any facet of my life!

I believe it is going well, she has broken her own 20 minute time limit twice now, and she has even skyped with me.

I am still taking this day by day.

Thank you for all your help. I will read over the chapter on conversation again. It feels so foreign, but I have noticed that our conversations are becoming more natural the more we have them. It had been such a long time since we just enjoyed each others talking.

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I believe it is going well, she has broken her own 20 minute time limit twice now, and she has even skyped with me.
Don't point that out to her.
Just smile. smile


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Originally Posted by Prisca
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I believe it is going well, she has broken her own 20 minute time limit twice now, and she has even skyped with me.
Don't point that out to her.
Just smile. smile

grin grin grin


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Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Ok, I need some help here.

I am doing excellent with anger control. Even she stated that i haven't lost my temper at all.
However, I am noticing a pattern. She is hanging out with her highschool friend who is very against us getting together because she says "abusive people can't change". We seem to have good conversations, we get closer, she is talkative and sends me pics of herself. Occasionally she will get annoyed if i bring up comittment to restoring love. But after hanging out with her friend she insists on "space". That this is a a separation and not a vacation and that she isn't sure we can be in love again.
I'm not sure how to take care of this.
She refuses to discuss moving back here until summer is over. Her friend is actively trying to set her up with guys even though my wife told me she let her know she isnt interested.
I am not sure what to do. She is coming for the weekend of June 8th, she agreed to a date, just me and her, and spending time together as a family.

Prisca, you mentioned moving to where she is, she was against this and said she doesnt want to stay there and that she isnt moving back until summer is over. But I am very afraid that this distance separation and her friend are going to lead to divorce and us growing apart. I can tell things get better when we talk, but she has a strong need for affection that I cannot meet from so far away.
What do I do?

Thanks

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actions speak louder than words and being consistent in never losing your temper is what she wants the most in her life regardless of what any of her friends tell her. Keep it up smile

Do you have kids together? She would understand you going up to see them.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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