Have been married 12 years, one child at home. We were in a dynamic of each trying to pull our needs out of the other one, power struggles etc. the last two years. More good than bad, but we both had the undercurrent that our needs were not met. Upon returning from an extended family trip, my wife was different. I sensed something more was going on, she denied it, I spied and found out about a work affair that had just begun.

I confronted her and she said it was just an emotional affair and she would clean up the mess. She didn't. I pushed her away further with my reactions of begging, spying, etc. She asked for a separation and I agreed to an in-house separation. The next month I exposed the affair to friends, family and church. She was furious. I just wanted support. We have had 2 steps forward 1 back for 10 months now.

He is no longer at her job and I can find no evidence she sees him, though I do know she has texted or called him a few times. She has been adamant that our marriage is "over", that she doesn't love me anymore, that the affair was just a symptom and our relationship was irrevocably broken well before the EA. I acknowledged my faults in the marriage as I did not respect some of her beliefs, did not support her, engaged in trying to meet women online a few years earlier and the big one for her, did not provide enough financial security.

I have instituted a 180 and been working on myself, getting a life, validating her and making love bank deposits and no withdrawals if I can help it. Sadly, I wasn't consistent for several months and consider September 1 to be when I really consistently applied what I had learned.

I could use help navigating this in-house separation and rebuilding a connection, if possible. Also boundary setting. I told her that if she wanted to date (him or anyone else) she can't do it while living here. For our daughter and financial reasons, she does not want us to live apart, but will agree to getting a divorce and selling the house if I don't "move on" and agree to have completely separate lives other than co-parenting.

We are civil and can talk to each other. However she is now intensely private. Covers her chest if she is wearing pajamas and I enter the room and says that we are separated and the only reason we are not divorced is I won't sign a separation agreement so she can leave and get her half of our money.

We agreed to let each other know when we will be late or have an appointment for our daughters sake, but she wants to assert her independence to not have to report to anyone so will just say, "I have an appointment today and will be late". I usually know what it is anyway, but it is important to her to not have to tell me so she feels she doesn't have to report to anyone. If I ask her a question like "did you go out to eat last night?", she reacts strongly to me invading her private space. "We are separated. I don't ask you where you go and I don't care. You have no right to ask me what I am doing. I will tell you from when to when because we have a child".

Sometimes I feel there are little breakthroughs, but I don't want to misread any progress. I have a plan, but it is hard when the going gets tough to not just believe her and give up. I also struggle with a balance between tough love and being the lighthouse she wants to navigate to in the storm. Thanks for the help.

Hi Flightlevel, welcome to Marriage Builders. A few red flags I wanted to address. It sounds like you are working bits and pieces of many programs which waters down your ability to save your marriage. The "180" is the complete opposite of our Plan A. We don't believe that the DB principles work because they promote emotional detachment. Emotional detachment was what contrbuted to the affair in the first place. Affairs tend to drag on with their plan and by the time they are over, the marriage is so damaged it can't be repaired.

So, we might be able to help you, but I will tell you that it is harder to save a marriage when an affair has dragged on for a long time because the wayward mindset becomes very entrenched. It will be a long shot.

The next red flag I see is the pretense that you are "separated." This is an odd wayward stunt where she/he moves into the guest room, declares herself "separated" and then commences to live like a single person. You are not "separated" if you live together. So I would stop going along with that pretense. You are not "separated," you live together and you are married. If you have moved out of your marriage bed, you should move back tonight.


I would start by not pretending to be "separated." Tell your wife that as long as you are married, you fully expect her NOT to commit adultery. Don't say things like "if you date' because that conveys endorsement.

And this is REAL important. Tell her that you want to have a romantic, passionate marriage with her and you have a plan to do this. This program works and it what it does is helps you create a romantic marriage. IT IS YOUR JOB TO SELL HER ON THIS. The best thing for your wife and your child is for your wife to be in love with you. You can sell her on this. Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? I would get that, but in the meantime, this article gives you the basic idea of our program. here

Some questions about the affair. What is the OM's situation? Is he married? Did you expose to his family and friends? Did you expose to the workplace? Are you SURE that he no longer works with her?

How old is your child and did you expose the affair to the child?

I guess by 180, I meant doing the opposite of the behaviors that weakened the marriage from my side. Becomming a better, more interesting person, better father, good husband. You are right that I am using terms picked up from DB as well as Lee Baucom. No matter what she does, I have been as fair and loving as I know how. I validate her when she spews at me. We text, I try to work on the emotional connection, etc. I have read a lot of the material here, watched the videos, listened to the radio show, etc.

She says it isn't her fault we are still in the same house, if she lived in a state where there weren't separation rules, she would have divorced already. If I would buy her out, which I can't, she would be happy to leave. She doesn't want to leave because she would look like the "bad guy" and then without a separation agreement would not be protected.

As I said, I know there is nothing physical, but I can't guarantee she doesn't sneak a lunch with him or talk though one of the many methods people can stay in contact.

I have tried all the conversations to "sell" her on the idea which see sees as pressure and pushes her further away. "It's over. You still dont get it. You not respecting my wishes to have my freedom and still trying to work on the marriage makes me hate you even more". She feels "trapped" and "caged".

I was living in the guest room. but 3 months ago when she last saw him out, I told her enough was enough. I moved back to the master bedroom. She then moved to the guest beddroom though she has to come to the MBR to get her clothes most days.

Within a month of me finding out, the OM left his wife and moved into an apartment near us assuming my W would move in with him. That shocked her and she was upset with him. But my confronting her and spying pushed her towards him. She maintained an EA for 4 months on and off. He got fired. No need to expose to the workplace. Now she seems to be biding her time, hoping I would make it easy on her. I did not expose to his soon to be X since that is moot. W's story is that I put her through hell for 10 months by "badmouthing" her to everyone, disrespecting her, spying on her, going through her private things, etc.

Child is 11 and she does not know the full story. She gets there was a disagreement about her mother and an affair partner, but there has been no sit down. She avoids any talk of the relationship or her feelings with what is going on in the house.

I was thinking that the pulling back a bit to give her space while still trying to build a connection might pull her back. I look at my situation more like we are divorced already and I am trying to win her back, but have the benefit of we are still in the same house. It really is confusing because if I log what seems to work and what doesn't, pressuring her to work on the relationship or asking her questions she thinks are "her own business" destroys any connection built. Her biggest hurt for months now is that I told her family.

In a situation like this, isn't the only chance to be a shining light and hope she comes to me? It seems like so many of the stories say the turnaround came when they became a very intersting, active person, but didn't chase. Once the pursuer stopped chasing and seemed to be moving on with their life, the distancer became curious.

What leverage do I have? She holds most of the cards. I can't stop her ultimately from doing whatever she wants. I could move out and even take my D with me, but emotionally, financiall and legally, that would hurt me. I don't want to lose the house. Alternately, I could sign a separation agreement and put the house up for sale. That would be a shock and some real consequences, but that would hurt everyone involved also.

For example, she doesn't want to have to report to anyone. If she does not have a responsibility to our D because she is out for an event, my W says she can go out and not have to report to me. So I can act like I don't care and see if that works, or I can confront her, but what is the consequence? I tell her like I always have, "I am going out with my brother" or "I have a doctor's appointment".

What does "validated" mean? Is that the practice where you repeat BACK to your spouse what she just said, as in imago?


If she wanted to leave, she could get a separation agreemnet or file for divorce. But she doesn't want to leave because she wants to reap all the benefits of marriage while proclaiming to be "separated." All of her "reasoning" is crazy wayward talk. You should not go along with it. Don't play like you are "separated" when you are not. Don't contribute to the insanity.


Are you snooping? And please confirm that she no longer works with him?


What idea have you tried to sell her?


ok, good.


You should be snooping like a bloodhound. And you should call his WIFE today and tell her about the affair and exchange information. The only information you have about her comes from lying liars. You also don't know if the OM really works there or not.

I would contact the OM's wife and start snooping so you can expose this affair in a more strategic manner.


The child should be told all about the affair. She has a right and a need to know the truth. If you don't tell her the truth, your wife will tell her lies and that probably has already happened. Don't leave this child vulnerable to this affair. By not knowing, your W is free to introduce her to the OM.


Your problem is that you are focusing entirely on not making her angry and that will not save your marriage. It just makes you look complacent and complacence conveys a lack of caring. See, our focus is saving the marriage. You save the marriage by killing the affair. Your marriage can survive her temporary anger over exposure, but it can't survive an affair.

She is angry about exposure to her family because your exposure was not strong enough to kill the affair so she is still fogged out. You didn't expose to the OM's family and friends, or the workplace. So your wife is still very fogged out and I assure you the affair is still going strong.


I have been here 14 years and have never seen that work. "Moving on with your life" looks like you don't care. The most effective plan is to a) kill the affair, b) FiGHT for your marriage while presenting yourself as an attractive person.

Please go read the 2 threads that are linked in my signature and come back and lets talk.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

here



here

here

I have not snooped in a while, though am very in tune with the little signs. I know where she is when she won't tell me, sometimes after the fact. She just gets power or feels in control to just say, "I have an appointment after work".

Validate to me just means to listen and to understand her and not argue. When she says, "your online chatting destroyed my trust in you", I say "I know. It must have hurt deeply to find years ago I disrespected you like that. That behavior was over long ago". Or "I know you are hurting too".

I know he doesn't work there because I know the day he was fired. She went to go comfort him after she left work and I saw her by accident going over there. I followed her and confronted her in the parking lot. That was an interesting day. 10 minutes later she was in her car coming home and asking me questions. His apartment is poison because she knows I can just drive over there and look for his car and/or hers.

I also know unless she started things up this week, she hasn't seen him after hours. She was even gone on a family trip for a couple of weeks.

I was repeating your idea that my job was to "sell her" on coming back to the marriage.

I will try to find how to contact his friends and relatives. Perhaps I need proof she is still in contact. The only way would be to follow her or get a GPS.

MB is the only source that says to tell a child. I am struggling with that one.

Since being mad at me, she says if I am here alone, she will be out. How do I handle that with her? I can't seem desperate like, "you have to tell me where you are, you are my wife". She really is reacting to feeling controlled and checked up on. Her overriding theme is "I want my freedom! We are no longer a couple you have no right to ask me private things about my comings and goings. I will tell you if I choose to"

Unlike a lot of the stories here, including wifedivorcing, there has been no wavering. She has been adamant and consistent. She will not let me see her in a robe and will not let me touch her and is never flirty or affectionate. We can get along and even laugh together, but that is all.

Also, my W makes more than me and carries the medical insurance. That makes it difficult to do anything that could get her in trouble at work as well as not in the best interest of my D.

So in other words you don't really have facts, just hunches. I would change that pronto.


Once again, you don't have facts. It is real important that you gather FACTS and not rely upon liars and hunches.


But you can't know this unless you are snooping. And she can call and email him every day.


Actually, you already have proof. But I agree you should get a GPS on her and try and install spyware on her phone. Does the OM have a facebook page?


MB is the only one that is correct about that. Anyone who advises lying to children about affairs is harmful to kids. MB is competely different from other programs in MOST aspects. That is why it is more successful than other programs. For example, MB believes that marriages can be romantic relationships, and most people do not believe that. Only because they don't know HOW.


ALL waywards are "adamant" and "consistent," when you don't fight the affair. You have spent your time basically enabling her and, as such, the fog has become very entrenched. WS's waver and become confused when you burst their bubble on a consistent basis. wifedivorcing fought like hell for his marriage and raised unmitigated holy hell on the affair. You have not done that. She has no reason to change her mind for a husband who demonstrates that he doesn't care.

Thats fine that you chose her job over the marriage. But be prepared to sacrifice your marriage for that. You sacrificed your marriage for her little job. She could have got another job just like everyone else does.

We have surgeons, airline pilots, teachers, etc who leave their jobs after an affair to save their marriages.

And a specific question. If she is stating a boundary that she does not accept me as her husband anymore and me buying her anything or doing anything for her just shows I don't respect her and haven't changed. So buying flowers or doing certain other behaviors seem like blatant "chasing" and me just being "desperate and only trying to win her back" I am looking for that balance of treating her like Plan A, but not being a wimpy doormat. A woman wants a strong man. If she doesn't respect me, she cannot fall back in love with me.

WEll, she already "accepted" you as a husband so it is silly to say she has a "boundary" against that. I agree you shouldn't send her flowers, etc, if it just annoys her. But your GOAL in Plan A is to win her back. You need to be doing that.

I am concerned that you are not paying attnetion to the advice to expose this affair, though. That is the ONLY chance you have. If you continue to do nothing, this will get worse.

And surely you don't really believe it helps kids to lie to them about the source of tension in their home. That only confuses children and when they find out the truth, it teaches them that dishonesty is acceptable. Lies and illusions do not make children happy or secure. You can use your own intelligence to understand that.

Are you actually reading my posts or am I wasting my time here?

Yes, he does have a FB page. They were liking each others' things all those months ago until I was it and her eldest saw it. She unfriended him that day.

And also, thank you very much for your help. I may ask questions to get more information or to help me struggle through it, but I am not questioning YOU or the advice. At least I home I am not. The consusing part is that there are similar threads on boards using different techniques that the author's swear by and much like wifedivorcing, it worked for them.

Wifedivorcing's story is pretty amazing. It takes a while to get through it, but they went all the way through filing for divorce!

And lastly, my complicity in where the relationship was that allowed for an affair may be more than most. I was chatting online several years ago when I was feeling my needs were not being met and hoping to meet someone for sex. We also tried swinging and there was some damage done there. Not getting a "real" job so that she had to wear the pants in the family is another complaint with some validity. It is hard to separate real issues in the marriage from the spew she says that re-invents our history.

I have not seen you ask any questions about the program though. It looks like you are opinion shopping all over the internet so I can understand why it is confusing. When you shop for opinions, it is usually a disaster because you end up wtih a little of this and a little of that and no real plan.

She is from overseas. I have exposed to all her friends and family there. It was a nightmare for a while, she wouldn't speak to me or look in my direction. When she did talk it was script spew. I don't even have to list it, you know what she said because they all say the same things

I thought it was over and had just been working on plan A. The repercussions of exposure came up again last week when her father blasted her in an email and she requested a skype meeting to tell her side and "set the record straight". That is where we are now, the aftermath of that.

I am looking up info on OM's family and friends now and will find out if she is seeing him. There is no longer a way from me to see her phone or computer or get in her car or purse. I will have to catch her out. I worry as you have warned in other posts that over 10 months now, it has been a trickle exposure. I know it bothers her greatly though. All the same script about "You embarassed me in front of my family", "If you loved me and wanted to make things work, you would have never gone behind my back and told people our private business". The other day she said I blabbed to the world and don't have all the facts, just my made up story. She never slept with him. She then said "couples keep that to themselves and work it out privately". I told her I tried, she made no effort to work anything out.

Have you personally talked to OM's BW and told her yourself?

No. Supposedly, they were living in an in-house separation for a few years, and she was doing her own thing. He left when he found my wife. I am looking into finding her. My firts course of action is finding proof that something is still going on.

Yes you need to get proof and then find his BW. She can also connect you to his family.

Can you afford a PI?

Probably not to follow anyone at $80 an hour, but I could possibly pay for a report.

huh? It sounds like you are injecting your own personal opinion here. What Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders says is this:


Is that not exactly what happened here? So why ask if she came back IN SPITE of exposure when what occurred here is EXACTLY what Dr. Harley predicted? People who don't expose only enable the affair so the spouse does not come back.

Every saved marriage on this forum attributes that success to exposure.

Do you want to see what happens when people DON'T expose? Listen to these radio clips between Dr Harley and enabling betrayed husbands:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2815

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2964
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2965

Hi Mel, I was asking what SHE thought. If the WS after the fact says they came back but still harbor ill feelings about exposure and don't want to admit it worked, or if when they come out of the fog, they also admit that it was the right thing to do.