.<P> <p>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited August 04, 2001).]

jdmac, we know what you're going through. Before I had actually uncovered concrete evidence of the affair, I had heard those words too. Harley comments in an article that almost everytime a spouse asks for a separation to work things out, an affair is ongoing. But in your case, you already know that.<P>When was d-day? Have you been Plan A'ing? How long? I tried to hold on too, but there is a fine line there, don't get clingy or needy. If she's comparing the both of you, you have to show her your best side. She's in a fanatsy world with this OM where no problems exist, and then comes home to arguing, LB'ing, neediness etc... It's almost like you have to act the opposite of what you feel,... but only to a point. Perhaps it's time to start thinking about Plan B.<P>Let's hear more of your situation. All the best,

jdmac1-<BR>Checkout this timeline-<P>Day before d-day: I want to separate. I need sometime to think things over.<P>Morning after d-day: I want to be with her. I love her. I don't want to be with you.<P>One week after d-day: I don't want to be married. The A has nothing to do with us. I just don't want to be married anymore<P>Two weeks after d-day: Oh, so now that you tell me I can leave. Now that its your decision, I can leave?<P>One month after d-day: Oh, great. You go on antidepressants and I will look like a jerk if I leave you. Why can't you get that I never wanted to be married. I don't like being around you. <P>One and half months after d-day.: I can't get anything done here (home). You, the kids--all the distractions--I can't get anything done. I need to be by myself. I don't want to be married anymore. I'm not going to be with her.<P>Now--two months after d-day. I've made arrangements to live somewhere else. I'm gonna leave. <P><BR>Meanwhile. H has not left. In fact we've been prequalified for a house loan and we are house 'shopping.'<P>Is he gonna leave? I don't know. Somedays I just wish he would so I could get off the fence and stop worrying about it.<P>By the way--I have told him he is free to go. I want to work on marriage, but I am unwilling to be 'a distraction' and his children don't deserve that either. <P>I also told him I don't want to be divorced and I don't want our children to be 'children of divorce' and I will fight for our marriage...but I don't want him to stay out of guilt, duty or obligation.<P>I know it's hard, but try not to hold on so tight. Sometimes when you open the 'cage' door, they don't want to go so bad. (at least I'm hoping so in my case.)<P><BR>Cali

.<BR> <p>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited August 04, 2001).]

Jumping in with: Cali - my WS and yours were reading the same book; I just can't believe, even the same words.<P>jdmac1:<P>I wish I could tell you that you've given it long enough, and god knows that's what all my friends tell me (except here) but did Plan A (I'm not sure how solid it was now, looking back) for 10 months, and I finally got to that point where I had to ask her to leave or start hating her. The fact is, my WS is still saying the things yours is and it's now been 11 months since I uncovered the affair. She has claimed it is no longer "happening" but she still acts very much like she's in the fog. I do believe that with my wife, my own "neediness" as she perceived it is a massive turn-off. And, it's especially unpleasant for them when 1) they don't "have feelings" for you and 2) they have someone else that they have a fantasy relationship with who only seems to need them in ways they want them to need them. I also kind of have this theory (I haven't seen it here, but maybe someone's said it) that we BSs are often a big source of guilt for the WS. And no one really likes being around someone who makes them feel guilty. I think we are this even when we don't *do* anything to make them feel guilty. Our existence simply reminds them that they've done something really wrong. Hence all the attempts at justification (i.e. "the A had nothing to do with our marriage." etc.)<P>So I guess I'm saying that if you can, you really need to show her a side of yourself that doesn't "need" her, but loves her very much. I know how hard that is, because I feel much like you do and I had such a hard time trying to do that, I don't know if I did it very well or not.<P>I hope that's some help.<P>Ishmael

Jumping in with: Cali - my WS and yours were reading the same book; I just can't believe, even the same words.<P>jdmac1:<P>I wish I could tell you that you've given it long enough, and god knows that's what all my friends tell me (except here) but did Plan A (I'm not sure how solid it was now, looking back) for 10 months, and I finally got to that point where I had to ask her to leave or start hating her. The fact is, my WS is still saying the things yours is and it's now been 11 months since I uncovered the affair. She has claimed it is no longer "happening" but she still acts very much like she's in the fog. I do believe that with my wife, my own "neediness" as she perceived it is a massive turn-off. And, it's especially unpleasant for them when 1) they don't "have feelings" for you and 2) they have someone else that they have a fantasy relationship with who only seems to need them in ways they want them to need them. I also kind of have this theory (I haven't seen it here, but maybe someone's said it) that we BSs are often a big source of guilt for the WS. And no one really likes being around someone who makes them feel guilty. I think we are this even when we don't *do* anything to make them feel guilty. Our existence simply reminds them that they've done something really wrong. Hence all the attempts at justification (i.e. "the A had nothing to do with our marriage." etc.)<P>So I guess I'm saying that if you can, you really need to show her a side of yourself that doesn't "need" her, but loves her very much. I know how hard that is, because I feel much like you do and I had such a hard time trying to do that, I don't know if I did it very well or not.<P>I hope that's some help.<P>Ishmael