I'm not sure that this normal WS behaviour but my H barely looks at me when I get home from work. He just turns the other way when I run to my daughter to greet her. When I attempt any hello affection, he rejects me. He barely talks to me when he is at home. If he does talk, it is abusive. It's terrible because I miss his conversation so very much.

Well, comparing him to my WS, yes it is normal behaviour. I swear to goodness many of them, including my WS, are plain wacko. That's the only way to explain it (or try to accept it for the moment). Lostva and others have always said, time and patience. I'm trying to heed their advice but I'm even a year longer into this than you (I checked your profile - hope that's ok) I am praying for us both, and for everyone else here. Glad we're here for eachother!<BR>

Terrified- mine was in the fog for several months and he would sometimes take me aside and say, " We need to talk" he then would say our marriage was hopeless and try to get me to agree to a dissolution( mutual cheap divorce) I of course would get upset, start to cry and try to give him all the reason why we shouldnt end a 15 yr marriage with 3 kids over his A. He of course couldnt truly listen to me because he was SO DEEP in the his fog and listened to OW on a daily basis and her manipulation, pressure and lies about how he would be better off without me. I had to learn to EMOTIONALLY DETACH from him to stay sane. For inspiration- listen to Gloria Gaynors's famous song, "I Will Survive!" It was hard but necessary during that time. Later on when he ended contact with OW finally and after he was in withdrawal, I was able to re-attach emotionally to him. But during that time I got good advice from an attorney friend at church who told me DONT DISCUSS divorce with him if thats not what you want. Just say Its wrong, bad for the kids and you know I'm against it. Then leave it alone! Dont go down the slippery slope of arguing.My H was so 'weird' when he was in this phase. He would look at me and his eyes seemed cold and vacant. It was kind of scary. Fortunately that all improved once his A was TRULY over with! Think of your H as temporarily insane! lifeismessy

Yep, I would say that's normal behaviour, based on my experience.<P>But, don't just think of him as temporarily insane. He IS temporarily insane. (not kidding)

My was the same before he left and after, too...swears he's not in an A, but it is at least an EA, of that I am sure. I too had asked about this over at D/D and everyone there said it was what WS's do. It's their mask...they don't want you to know how they feel about anything.<P>That blank look was so hard to take...at least I don't have to see it any more; I moved countries...but the voice over the phone is just as blank.<P>Normal? Nope, but for a WS, totally normal.

Wow, it's scary that all of you have experienced this hollowness. Blank stares are exactly right. Thanks to all of you for validating. I'm not happy that any of you have had to experience this nightmare, just relieved to know that his behaviour is normal. <P>EWO, God bless you for being at this so long.

Nor does mine. He came home Tuesday (his building was closed to all personnel) and walked in and never looked at me. he only speaks to me if it is a household or child rearing question. He looks past my face, or elsewhere when he talks. This makes me not want to share anything about my day. Even the night of the 11th, we are so emotionally divorced, that it never occurred to me to sleep in his bed for the comfort of having my husband there. Nor did he so much as touch my shoulder, hand, or hug me or ask if I was all right.<P>He professes no real immediate concern for his own safety or for our child, is pissed that the football games this weekend are cancelled. He behaves like one of the "after" Pod People from Invasion of the Body Snatchers, except when he talks to the woman he loves on the cell phone. <P>Vent. yes, I understand.<P>For comfort I went out to a religious service. Alone. Members of the congregation,neighbors, squeezed my hands. Thank God.<P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

That is the way my H has been every time he has had an affair. The vacant cold look. The talking while looking away. I remember bringing it up once when we went out to dinner in January. He never once looked at me when he talked. I even made a joke about it and he still looked away uncomfortably.<P>Before I left for Europe, we went out on our boat...he asked us to go. He couldn't stand to be near me. When I asked if he wanted me to put lotion on his back, he literally backed away from me. <P>At one of my son's baseball games this summer (the day he accidently called me and said "hey, beautiful" when he meant to be calling his OW), he had a hard time standing by me. When I offered him popcorn, he wouldn't even take some. It was strange. <P>The vacant look must come with the manual!!!

Hi BV, Yes, the emotional disconnection is the most difficult. I continue to pray that they come out of this very soon.<P>Good luck and my prayers are with you in your struggle.

The eyes do not lie! People who are uncomfortable and/or lying cannot look their victim in the eyes. Only cold-hearted, professional, pathological liars can pull this off without a hitch. This is one of the reasons that I find it extremely important to be able to be present in the physical sense when I confront someone on an issue that requires honesty. The "look" is worth a thousand words or more..... <P>------------------<BR><B>Time heals all wounds as long as you DON'T pick at them!</B>

T,<P>I got the same treatment during A and up until he decided that he would really try to work on the marriage. <BR>It chills me just to think about how I felt during that time. I can imagine how you must feel. I am sorry that you have to go through this. <P>I agree that when one is lying, it is almost impossible to look your victim in the eye - especially when the victim knows!

Hi Cleo, Thanks for responding. Just wondering, how long did it take for your H to decide to want to work on the marriage? Did you separate at any time?<P>Thanks again and I hope your recovery is going well.

No seperation. He did tell me numerous times we would never work...it was over in his mind....we would get a divorce...blah blah blah<P>D-Day until the time that he recommitted was about 3 months give or take. I think that his A was starting to fizzle as she may have been pressuring him to leave(he doesn't respond well to being told what to do). Excellent Plan A was put into place in the meantime. I would say that Plan A saved my sanity and was a contributing factor to him recommitting.

Thanks, Cleo. Wow, 3 months is a feat in itself. Congratulations. Sorry to bug you with more questions but wanted to know how you reacted to his statements of wanting a divorce? Also, how long have you been in recovery?

We've been in recovery about 15 months. 3 months was an amazing feat considering the timetable of many of the others here. I feel extremely fortunate. It did help for him to read SAA. He was open to it and I was careful not to push it on him. After he read it, he realized how he could have been so vulnerable to an affair and that it could have been anyone that filled his needs. I think he realized at that point that their bond was not that "special" after all.<BR>When he mentioned divorce, I maintained that I did not want a divorce and that I loved him and our family. I told him that I knew we could work things out. I also told him that I would not entertain divorce. I said all of these things in a very calm way and was always consistant about how I felt. I think as soon as we start to raise our voices they turn their ears off.'<BR>When we create the safe, positive home for our H's to come home and the OW sees them struggling and starts pushing for more it only reinforces that home is where the should be.<P>BTW, you can ask away. I got so much out of this place that it is good to give back.

Thanks for your open-ended offer, Cleo. I hope that, one day, I am able to offer the same sound, positive advice. At this very moment, that time and place seems very far off. My H is not open to reading anything right now. I've left him copies of posts in his briefcase, none which he's taken the time to read. He gets angry when I suggest reading. Any advice on how to swing him over?

This is what I did and may or may not work with you given your H's current attitude:<P>We sat down for the "talk". He had accepted that it was over and was just going to finalize things by talking about it. Well, he said what he needed to and then with a calm that I can't explain I told him exactly why I thought that our marriage would work. I told him what I believed to be the "science" of the A, according to Dr. Harley. My H is very logical and could see how this applied. <BR>I think that he was looking for a reason to stay, actually. Because that is the moment that I would say that we started our recovery. It did take a couple of weeks to get rid of her but it was all forward momentum.<BR>Look for the right time, when he is being receptve and approach the subject with calm and determination.

A WS point of view -- There were a number of things that went through my mind when I was rejecting and not looking at or responding to my spouse. I was rejecting her because I did not understand why my spouse did not treat me like the OW did, I never received any deposits in my love bank from my spouse yet she expected me to feel something towards her. There was a lot of talk and no action from her. I am someone that looks for action. I always wanted my spouse to be the OW. I did not want to leave my family but I was truly miserable inside; hence somewhat justifying the relationship. I could not look at my wife because I was embarrassed about the situation, I was ashamed and I knew what I was doing was wrong. I was also resentful that my wife wanted to start NOW with our relationship, why did she wait so long, why was there so many years of loneliness, sarcasm, and pain. When D-Day came, I decided that I would put forth an honest effort, I did not want to look back 10 years from now after getting a divorce and leaving my children only to realize that there was something wrong with me or to realize I did not give a 100% effort in the marriage. I decided at a minimum I owed this to my 3 boys. As the days passed my wife became very loving, nurturing, and making many deposits in account. I am not sure what Plan A is but my suspicion is that what she was doing was Plan A and she did an excellent job. I started to think to myself this is the type of companion I had been looking for all along. She was doing all the right things. I did not think we had a chance, I told myself that I would commit for 6 months (what was 6 months anyway) and if it did not work out I would file for a divorce knowing that I did my part. I admire my spouse today, she carried both of us during that period, when she was sad she would not show it, when she was scared she would not show it, when she was lonely she would not show it. She was just perfect, making deposit after deposit in my account. After a time, when there was a lot of deposits in the account she would start getting me involved in the recovery process that benefited her as well as me. I think it worked because she had made so many deposits in a short period of time that I became more and more willing to participate in the REAL recovery side of the process. I started reading, we went to a MB getaway for a weekend, we did the exercises together, we became a team. Looking back I do not think we would be where we are if she would have been judgmental, angry, resentful, she made it very pleasant for me to get into recovery.<BR>