nevermind<p>[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: TryingAgain ]<p>[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: TryingAgain ]</p>

Ummm... I'm not sure this is quite the letter you want to send. It's way too huge. It sounds a lot like your description of your mutual LB sessions, writing it down won't make it go over any better. You bring up all transgressions (yours and his) and offer to sit down and solve all your problems together. He will focus on the fact that you listed his transgressions and will balk at any suggestions to consider your vision of the future. <p>Don't take that too harshly, I could see that you were attempting to offer a major olive branch. I just don't think he'll see the forest through the trees, because you've already had this same discussion many times. <p>What do I think would go over better?<p>Offer the olive branch and ask him to help you solve the trust and openess problem. That's what he said was his issue. I don't think you are going to go anywhere until you can get past that.<p>I hope you get lots more comments on this letter. I know my advice will always be on the "mild" side.<p>Jeffers

TA-<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>.... This is despite your continued contact with <OW>, despite all the stuff you have said about why you married me in the first place, and despite how coldly you treat me.... <hr></blockquote><p>I'd leave that part out.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>No more than you had an affair to hurt me.<hr></blockquote><p>I'd change that to, "No more than you want to hurt me."<p>Get my drift? I agree with J, don't rub his nose in "it." Just talk about yourself, and the things you want to do with yourself. I think the rest of the letter is very appropriate.... but in reading J's reply, be careful if this is a place where you've already been - especially if H didn't react too well the last time. I'm not saying "don't send it," just to be mindful of HIS view of what you're saying.<p>Kev

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>. I just don't think he'll see the forest through the trees, because you've already had this same discussion many times.
<hr></blockquote><p>i know. i'm just not sure what to do...so many suggest plan b...<p>why do i resist? i know it's fear...<p>i think because he doesn't hear me when i talk...maybe seeing what i say in print he'll hear...<p>voice message from him today re. phone contact[edited]
yeah, I called her to vent about when you made the 'selfish' remark...I can't talk to you...I just talked, she didn't have anything to say. You just want it your way and you can't have it your way. You want control of the situation. You always want control. That's not going happen anymore. I'm gonna have control. I'm learning how not to be helpless. Things are going to change and it's going to be the way it is...why can't you accept that? You're not going to like it...h### I don't like it... <p>that's the crux...control...how do i reassure him that i don't want control over him? that i just want us to work together?<p>i know the heart of my husband...i unintentionally hurt him for years and it doesn't really matter the how and the why...<p>...but here we are and i can't stand the pain...

Plan B.<p>He is absolutely right -- you are trying to control the outcome. This letter is another way for you to convince him of what his decision has to be. You are going to keep banging your head against the wall until he makes the decision you want him to make.<p>His indecision is a decision too -- its just one that you don't like. And perhaps its a cruel way for him to have some control.<p>You're in constant pain, and you are tolorating far more than you should. You need to start protecting yourself and your LB from him and OW.

Hi TA, <p>Your post was edited before I could read it, but if it is what I think it is, I will send you a copy of my letter to H. My plan B B B B letter. I re-read it last night. I think it was pretty good. Of course I am biased.... hey I wrote it!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Hey there ~ You deleted your post before I read it too...but this line lept out at me and I have an opinion (opinions are like <insert body part here> - everyone has one! ) [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>i think because he doesn't hear me when i talk...maybe seeing what i say in print he'll hear...<hr></blockquote><p>I remember this frustration. Actually, I still do it, but to a lesser degree.<p>I keep thinking that if I just "do" something - say it differently, say more times, explain it with better analogies, say it with LBs, or say it without LBs...etc...<p>that THIS time, he'll get it. (ie He'll agree with MY judgement/opinion). And THEN, when he GETS it, he'll do what I want, because MY solution is the RIGHT one...how could anyone else think differently?<p>Not only are you making your own opinions and values superior to his (and I know you know the whole Do you want to be RIGHT arguement) .... but your repeated addressing of your issues with him because he's not doing what you want is simply a selfish demand.<p>That's what nagging is....a disrespectful judgement wrapped up in a selfish demand.<p>Sweetie, it's simply an attempt to control the outcome - you want your outcome to be a marriage in recovery - but you won't get it by trying to control your H with disrespectful judgements and selfish demands.

thanks bramblerose...OneDay and NY (I also posted on the Recovery board) did a really good job of working me through this one...<p>...when I recover, I may just start a thread on "How do give up control...'cause I really don't want it."<p>I appreciate everyone's help.<p>[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: TryingAgain ]</p>

TA,
Might I stick my nose in here and aask you to try to answer this... what are you afraid of.... in Plan B? <p>Being alone? That it will push him away? That he will leave and never come back? Afraid of giving up? Feel like you are no longer actively "working" to save your marriage? Afriad that you will feel like you are admitting that you can't "fix it"?

that it's true...that he really doesn't love me...<p>that I'll be alone with three kids to raise...<p>that I'll watch him have a life with someone else.<p>that I'll never get to hold him again...<p>that he won't come back...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>that it's true...that he really doesn't love me...
that I'll be alone with three kids to raise...<p>that I'll watch him have a life with someone else.<p>that I'll never get to hold him again...<p>that he won't come back...
<hr></blockquote><p>is he helping you with the kids now? Are you sharing him with someone else now? Do you feel loved?<p>Is it possible that he will leave and not come back even if you NEVER plan B?<p>What if Plan B is the only thing that will wake him up? Will he ever make a decision if you don't force him to?<p>We have to be willing to accept these things.... YES... but Plan B does not guarantee that your marriage is over.... it's not quitting.... it IS being willing to admit that you can't do it ALONE. It IS expecting - and LETTING - your H be an adult and make a decision... instead of him always letting you steer the boat - his boat. My H says he doesn't want a Mom, yet, always let me make the decisions. He's still waiting for me to decide... I think that's why he hasn't filed the D yet. He wants me to do it. He wants me to make the decision for our lives. Does he want/need a mom or not??? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>How is your energy level in working on the marriage? If you are drained completely, what good will you be to anyone? yourself, your H, or your kids...... please be sure to go to plan B BEFORE you are drained completely emotionally.....<p>I'm NOT trying to convince you to Plan B. Just asking questions that I KNOW you've asked yourself a million times.... but here they are once more...... only YOU can answer them. We are here for you any path you choose.

Never got to respond when your letter was posted and now it's gone...anyway, I see the majority sort of felt like I did.<p>Hey, I understand your fears..I was there, divorced, 3 small kids, he went on with someone else, I've never held him again...and it's been ok. I won't kid you, the first year was complete hell...but there was one small factor that kept me going...me. <p>I no longer judged myself by his standards, or subjected myself to his critism..I started living my life as mine..not something based on his mood, his actions, his words..I reclaimed my life...<p>So, while scary, it wasn't all bad.
T

My experience has been different from Twyla's. It has been almost 3 years. Six kids. He married the OW. It has been far, far worse than I ever could have imagined. <p>By far the worse part is that he has in large measure rejected the children as well. Has come right out and said that he doesn't have to see them except when he feels like it. But they have to be available and willing to see him when he wants to. The children are terrified of his anger, terrified of his yelling at them, terrified that he will stop loving them. <p>And I won't even go his going on two-year unemployment and lack of child support. <p>If I had a choice, I would MUCH rather he be home, even if he were involved in an affair. When he was home, even during the affair, he cared about the kids. He didn't just "help" me with the kids. He was their father.