Thank you all. Hopeful and Kily, thank you for sharing your stories with me (and thank you to everyone else as well). Your stories esp. hit home for me and I will remember the pain and regret I read in your posts everyday as I'm making decisions that have the potential to impact my life in the way yours have. Thank you for sharing that with me.

I've been putting off chiming in here because you are getting some very sincere and wise posts already. But I sense that you have not yet been persuaded to NOT have an affair, so here I go.

I too am a FWS. I cheated on my H last spring with his BF. I destroyed his trust in me, and his BF. He now says he trusts no one except his own family. We are separated, and have been for 10 months. He has as yet been unable to forgive me, and very much prefers to punish me and treat me like a second class citizen every chance he gets. A divorce seems to be iminent at this point. I've destroyed a 12 year relationship, and washed so many happy memories down the drain, for two nights of crappy sex.

The guilt I live with is huge. I hurt my H, his BF, my 4 BIL's, my MIL and FIL, and my H's four grandparents. I've lost my best friend too, my H was my best friend. The man he once was seems to be long gone. All the dreams we had for having a family and growing old together have been destroyed. And for what? Because the OM made me feel appreciated and paid attention to me, and I was dumb enough to forget my marriage vows and failed to realize how very destructive an affair can be.

Someday I'll have to try to explain to a potential new man in my life why my first marriage ended (my fault), and maybe someday I'll have to answer my own children's questions about it too.

Hopeful_person said it very well when she said, "Was the A worth it? Would yours be worth it? I think not. Nothing is worth losing your sense of pride in yourself, or your integrity."

And as Diane said, "If I can help one person not choose the path I took, then maybe my experience was not in vain."

Having an affair will not make everything better. It may feel good for a moment or a few days, but in the long run it will come to light and tarnish the rest of your life, and your child's life too.

Please think of the long term effects, and don't have an affair. You most certainly will regret it.

Jen

Jen

<small>[ April 08, 2003, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

If you could understand for one second how awful your husband will feel when/if he finds out, then you wouldn't even need to post this question. It is a pain that can not be described, and it is worse than you can ever imagine ten fold. Do not do it.

He forgot my birthday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It just saddens me that he can't get over himself long enough to remember his own wife's birthday. He wrote me a couple e-mails this morning telling me they're back in port, he's bored, blah, blah. All I wanted was a "I hope you have a good birthday hun. I miss you and wish I could be there." That's IT. I can't even get that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

MarriedGirl,

I strongly hope you choose not to have an A. I have lived with the effects of this choice like you can not imagine. I caught my wife in both an EA and PA after she moved out on me seperated. It had started after only 3 months of marriage, and went on for a year.

I heard many of the same complaints you are making. He didn't remember to do this, you are controlling me with money, etc. But much of those items were really because of a new relationship, and our inability to communicate properly. They were all addressable problems, and were mostly because of each of our own inadequacies and inabilities. But, while I read marriage counseling books to try and be a better person, she had an affair with a mutual friend. You can guess how that now makes her feel, and how I feel about myself as well. I feel like dirt.

Now I sit here, more hurt than you can possibly imagine. She told me yesterday she wants to file for divorce, and we haven't even tried an MC together. I now feel more powerless, and so worthless because of her decisions. I live on a diet of anti-depressants, and trying to make it through each day. It has largely destroyed me as an individual. I count my accomplishments as such things as actually eating three meals a day. I'm underweight, and still losing more.

Do you want to cause this pain to your H? Do you want to see him in this state? Please, wait and go to MC. If you really can't work things out after honestly trying, then look for someone else. Cut it clean and move on knowing that you tried the best you could (and we all need help in doing this. We can't do it on our own). Don't go this route. I can't tell you what it is like for the person having the affair, but I can sure tell you about what it is like to be the BS. I would never want to hurt another person this way, never mind a friend/lover. I know that because of my WW's decision, I will be scarred for a very long time. This makes me nothing but sad. She is still in the fog, and feel's I deserved it, and that it was justifiable. This twists the knife in the wound. These situations can get so messy, and really don't solve a thing.

Please think carefully about this,

Eric

MG this is a perfect oppertunity to address things with your h. Instead of feeling sorry for yourself, turn it around with an email! Tell him honestly how you fee, ask him if he knows he forgot your birthday. I just forgot my best freinds birthday and I have known her for 20 + years!!! You can imagine the new a$$**** she ripped me, especially being her 30th. But it just goes to show it does happen, I had a ton on my mind, but it doesn't mean she still isn;t a priority in my life.

Again do not have an A. you have no idea what you will be doing to yourself or your H. WHen I was having the A , I was like WOW this is so weird, I have no feelings of remorse or regret at all!!!! You can not see the dangers of an A when you are already in one.Listen to the BS, listen to the WS. By your own admission its just lust.How does that fullfill your EN's that your H is not?

MG
My husband forgot my birthday before I began the affair...and guess what? The OM wished me happy birthday at church in front of the SS class. How I wish I had told my husband how this made me feel instead of making the choice I made. My life would have been much simplier! Believe me when I tell you the pain YOU will feel is not worth it....and that does not even include the pain you will be causing others. Diane

mg,

I posted back at the beginning of this thread, too.

My lovely wife had 2 A's one PA in 99 and an EA from APR 02-???(still has stong feelings for him). I remember how I felt when I found out. Her family, best friend and OM#2 all knew about the first A before me. The pain and anguish I felt then is not even close to what I feel now after I had a PA in Dec 02.

You will regret it if you have an A. Kily's post almost made me cry right here at my desk. Being betrayed you have somewhere to put the disappointment and anger if you want. Doing the betraying you will disappoint yourself, your H, your families, friends and God. Everthing you have stood for, fidelity, honesty, respect and so on will be called into question. It will cast doubts on your committment to the M and your love for your H regardless if they were the most sincere and honest feelings that you have ever had. You character as a person will be tarnished.

Don't go there. No matter how bad you lonely you feel it will make you feel worse. You are being tempted by the evil one. An affair comes wrapped in this pretty package with bows and shiny paper but inside is a steaming pile of crap.

How's that for brightening a morning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know the answer to this question already.

<small>[ April 09, 2003, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: d_rose ]</small>

Happy Birthday MG <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My H is home...and I remind him when my birthday or our anniversary is coming up. Or, really since we've been in recovery, he lets me know he's remembered. It saves me from the anger and him from feeling stupid.

Think of it this way, if your H missing your birthday is the last straw and you have an affair...it's like Chris (CA123)'s W who said one of the reasons was he bought Pepsi not Coke (or was it Coke not Pepsi?).

It's just an excuse to do what you want.

I don't think your H is doing a good job being a husband, but he is away and many people compartmentalize their live into work and home. He's probably in work/guy mode most of the time because he isn't home.

There is no justification for you to have an affair. None.

MG,

I think you are getting the point here about having an affair. I'd like to get on to dealing with the answers to the questions I gave you. First off though...happy birthday! As you have said, your husband is far from being a good husband He is going to need some work. So him forgetting your birthday is probably not something surprising from someone acting as he is. I know that doesnt make you feel better, but if you can get to the point of understanding where he is, then you can help him move out of that.

Now to your answers:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you a Christian?... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. I accepted Christ at the age of 5 and grew up in a Christian home. Obviously, you couldn't tell by the way I live my life at this point which saddens me. There have been times when I am closer to God than others. I get distracted too easily. And yes, H is too. He grew up in a VERY strict Christian home. He spent most of his teen years in youth group- completely opposite from me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand being distracted. I wont even get into that here. But I want to say is that you need to count on Christ to meet all of your needs first. When you do that, watch what He does to your husband! Remember, there are three of you in that marriage. And Christ is not going to allow your husband to not take care of you. But you have to trust Him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How active are you in your faith, if you are?... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not as active as I'd like to be at this point. I tend to get really close and then drift away. I pray a lot throughout the day and read my Bible occassionally, but that's about it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, your answer is with Him. Only He can change your husband. Follow Him, listen to Him…He will show you the way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you have a church and/or a bible study?... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've been moving around so much these past few months that I have not been able to look for a church. It's also hard by myself with a small baby and she's just gotten to the age where I feel comfortable putting her in day care (or nursery, in church). I am currently at my parent's house but when I go back home at the end of the month I plan on looking for a church so we can begin going when H gets home. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand where you are at…believe me. When we separated, I spent the last 8 months taking care of three kids, working, getting ready for possibly going to war, etc. But I made sure that I took time out for my relationship with Him. You may think you don't have time right now for that, but I tell you…you don't have time to ignore Him. He is the answer. Not all of these other things. You have a relationship with Him…a personal one. Don't take it for granted (isnt that what your husband is doing to you…how do you think Jesus feels with you not having time for Him?). I don't say these things to condemn…I say them because I have and still struggle with these same issues. And my relationship has not always been what it should be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">what does your husband lie about...and do you ever call him on it? What is his response?... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he lies about everything. EVERYTHING. He's a pretty bad liar so I usually catch him, but it worries me- the things I haven't caught, esp. since he's been gone for so long. I talked to his mom about this and she said he has been this way since he was a small child. His mom is an incredibly angry, punishing person so I guess that's how he learned to cope. Sucks for me. Mostly, he lies about what he does with other women. He had a porn addiction/compulsion before he left and lied about that constantly. He took hundreds of dollars from our account and blatently lied to my face about that so I ended up reporting that our credit card had been stolen. He stole money from my parents to chat with girls online and he lied about that (he racked up about $500 on their phone bill). He would say he hadn't looked at porn for a long time and then I would look at the history and see that he had been to about 10 sites in the 15 minutes I was in the shower, or in the other room. The ONLY thing he has ever admitted to me (the other things I caught him in)is when he went to a strip club and got several lap dances a week after our dd was born. And it took him 6 months to be able to do that. As far as I know, he has not cheated on me and adamently denies that to this day. I mostly believe him about that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I get the picture. I think another poster here set it well…he has his life without you, and one with you. When that other life intrudes into yours, he will lie about it. He wants both, but wants both separate. Your husband needs some work, as I did. But his is not a hopeless cause. But how willing are you to go through the pain and emotional expense to help him out of his mess? Look at the BSs here that have gone through far worse pain and are still trying to be there for their spouses…to help them in change. If they can do it, when their marriages have been blown apart, then you surely can while your marriage still remains intact. Ultimately, you are going to have to get your husband to the table and want to work on this. Do not be a doormat. You do not have to take his "abuse." But, in that, you need to constantly be looking for the opportunity to help your husband along. Since he is back in port, I assume you will be seeing him soon. Sit down and discuss things. Seek counseling with him, and separately. If he wont go for the marriage, or for him…then ask him to go for you, to help you. You need a plan, MG…just like the BSs here needed a plan. Look at the Harley's plan for marital recovery on here, and in their books. Go from that and design the plan that best fits you and your husband. Can you imagine the appreciative and doting husband you will have later, once he is out of this, and realizes that you thought of leaving, could of left…but instead stuck with it and loved him enough to bring him back? He will worship you. Someone said above to look forward several years from now. How does it make you feel knowing that your husband might start worshiping you down the road? Pretty good, huh? But it wont happen overnight. It wont happen with no effort. And it certainly wont happen with you having someone else meeting your needs. You need a plan MG. Then put all of your sexual and other frustrations into that plan. It will reap rewards that far exceed anything you will find out there with OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What are your top 5 ENs? What are your husband's? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll have to get back to you on this... I have his test somewhere and I've done more speculating about my own so I need to take the actual test to see for sure. Actually, I did do the test awhile ago I just need to find it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, but figure this out soon. And let us know. This is the first part in developing your plan. You cannot do anything else until you understand what you need, and he needs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How much longer will your husband be deployed? Is he career military, or does he plan on getting out? If he is, does he have a plan of what he will do in civilian life?... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">we have no idea when he's coming home. His deployment was extended "indefinitely" and we still have not heard anything. No, he is not career. THANK GOD. I don't think I could handle that. He wants to do a job (non-military) that counts toward his retirement so we're still looking into the options. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, this is good. Sounds like you are the type of wife that needs her husband home. That isnt bad…just who you are. Most of my career, I did before I was married. My wife does not like me in the military, and we both have decided that I will retire at the end of the year. My marriage is more important than my career. But, while Uncle Sam still has him, use this time to better you, and to get him moving forward. That way. Many of these issues will hopefully be resolved once he leaves the military, and both of you will move onto a new life together.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Besides being a good wife and mother, what is it YOU want to do with your life? Notice, I am not even insinuating that you must have a career or anything like that. I have the utmost respect for those women that want to be housewives and stay at home moms. That is MUCH harder than going to an office. But the question still remains...what are your short term goals and long term goals for YOU?... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I DO NOT want to be a SAHM for much longer. He gets out in about 1.5 years and I have been trying to go back to school (to complete my nursing degree) but there's no way I can do that before he gets out. We plan on moving across country when he does get out, and all of the nursing schools where I'm living now have a 2-3 year wait just to get in. I have already completed all of my pre-reqs so I can't do that either. I'll probably get a job when things settle down a little. I want to become a nurse, have more kids, live in a small town where we're happy, and just have a normal life. I'd like to be halfway happy in my M, but who knows. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, so you know what you want. My wife was a SAHM for 8 years. She is just now finishing nursing school (3 weeks to go!). So, you too are very similar in that respect. Just like the plan for your marriage, part of it has to be a plan for your career, his career, more children, new house, etc. If you don't plan it out, then someone gets resentful when their dreams arent met. Get it out in the open…plan it with your husband…then do it!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now that you answered that question...does your husband know about these goals? Does he support them? what are you doing to move toward them?.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H knows that I want to be a nurse and yes, he supports me in that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good. Very good. See what I said above. With the two of you working together on this, it will only bring you closer together. You will be excited because of your new career…so will he. You will also be excited because he will have supported you in this and shared it with you. It will only help your relationship.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That's all I have time for right now. Thank you so much for being interested enough to ask me questions. It really does help. I REALLY want to try to get my H to talk with you. Thanks again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No problem MG. And I hope your husband wakes up. I am sure he will, especially if you use what you know here, read up on all of the material out there on marriages, relationships, etc…and then pursue your plan. I think you will be surprised at what your husband does. And in the end, he may just wake up and be forever in debt to you. I wish my wife had done this for me, instead of pursuing an affair. Because any woman that would have pulled me out of where I was and shown me enough patience and love to get me thru that…I tell you…I would probably "worship" the ground she walked on forever.

In His arms.

MG, first you shouldn't because it's wrong. Even if your H has had one, you should not.
He needs your full support wherever he is. To know he can trust you!
Also, an A will only make you feel dirty and less self esteem than you have now. Sure, there are a lot of men who will use you. Even lie to you and deceive you.
Do you really think you will gain self esteem and feel better afterwards? NO!
How about you do the right thing no matter what, so you can look yourself in the mirror and be proud of the face looking back at you.
Perhaps counseling would do you good also. When H comes home, try for counseling for you both.
In fact, in military, there is counseling available to him right now. Even if overseas. I know one lady whose H did get it while over in Korea! For their marraige.
If you come to the point you think an A is best, please divorce first! Because you may as well end your marriage now than later!
And be fair to the man who is not able to be there right now and work on it with you.
Try writing your H loving letters and tell him how much you miss him! Take care of your own physical needs rather than cheat.
There is not a lot of respect for oneself after an A if you read most of these letters from those who have.
It won't solve anything, but rather will create new problems for you!
The way you change the negative thoughts is to tell yourself STOP as soon as one starts. And get active in hobbies, social outlets with other women and family. Volunteer if nothing else to help someone else through a crisis. That does wonders for your self esteem!
God bless, LouLou

Thank you all for the encouragement.

Mortarman,
Thank you again. You're right- what I really need to do is stand by him and support him in whatever he goes through. You asked me how willing I am to go through the pain and emotional expense to help him out of his mess...honestly, I don't know. I can tell you that after all he's put me through the main desire I have had is to be as far from him as possible. Everytime I see a new e-mail from another girl he's communicating with, everytime I think of him looking at more and more porn, everytime I think of the things that happened before he left, I get this horrible knot in my stomach and want nothing more than to never see him again. Yes, that makes me a coward. Maybe that means I don't truly love him. I think that if he had a problem with just about anything else, I'd be much more willing to help him out. But this all feels so incredibly personal and degrading. It seems like he doesn't even want me around- or why would he be so adament about staying in touch with other women and getting deeper into pornography when he knows full well how much it tears me apart?? So why should I put myself through hell to help him out when he couldn't even care less about whether I'm there or not? This is what I struggle with. What's my motivation to go through that? Because I love him?? Well, I thought I once loved him but more often than not lately I have felt nothing but hatred and disgust for him. Because I have compassion on him? Nope, not really. He sure doesn't seem "in pain" or struggling. In fact, I think he's pretty darn happy with his 2 lives. He gets the best of both worlds.
It does make me feel horrible to struggle with so much anger and self-doubt over this. I wish I could more easily "pick up my cross" and carry it instead of wanting nothing more than to get the hell out. How do I do that? How can I possibly do that when my body reacts to him with disgust because of what he's done. There came a point when I would physically shake whenever he was around because of all of the emotions I was feeling- and it wasn't in a good way. How can I "train" myself not to feel those things? I truly want to know because I DO want to do the right thing, I just don't know how. I want to be more self-*less* because I know primarily I am being selfish. I know that I should not be concerned with my needs and put more effort into helping him out. But how?
I KNOW I shouldn't have an affair. That much I have learned here. I KNOW the things I NEED to do, I just don't know HOW to do them. Do I go through the motions and "pretend" like I love him and want to help him? Do I seperate myself from him and get on with my own life and let him do what he wants- and let God control the fate of our M? Please tell me how to do this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

About the EN's...
his top 3 are:
Affection, FC, SF
my top 3 are:
Admiration, FC, H/O (SF runs a close 4th)
HTH...

Edited to add: I don't think admiration would normally be in the top 3 for me, but since H's problems are all so degrading to me as a woman and as his wife, and he's such an incredibly critical person, and any kind of compliments or words of appreciation are so few and far between, that need has grown, maybe over what it normally would be.

<small>[ April 09, 2003, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: marriedgirl ]</small>

At some point you have to talk to your H. He can't read your mind! He needs to know you are upset about your birthday, that you don't feel important to him, that you feel taken for granted. Tell him his selfish, one-sided actions hurt you. It is entirely possible he has no clue as to how his behaviour affects you! If he does have a clue and doesn't care...well, then you have all the answers you need to make some tough choices.

Bottom line...nothing changes until you open your mouth!!

A lot of people keep telling me I need to "get it out there" and tell H what has been going on. He asked me tonight if I was mad at him (because I haven't been writing as much) so I thought it might be a good time to write to him about all of this. Here is the e-mail I sent and I'm wanting opinions (nothing nasty please) I realize at times I may have sounded a little harsh, but I am hurt and angry and can't sugarcoat everything all the time. I substituted an * for when I said his name...

I'm always afraid to tell you the negative things I feel because I'm afraid you'll hear one negative thing and think "Oh, she thinks I'm a bad husband. So f*** it." But it gets miserable trying to keep everything inside so I just go on my marriage site and vent about the things I feel. They all say I should tell you exactly what's going on so I will.
I'm having a hard time. Period. Honestly, it was made worse when you didn't even remember my birthday (or think to say "happy birthday" if you did remember). All I wanted was a simple "I hope you have a good birthday honey. I really wish I could be there." And I couldn't even get that. I woke up the next morning to some lame e-mail about me getting "boozed with my homies" or whatever you were trying to say. If you just forgot, at least say that. You don't have to try to cover it up. You still didn't even say happy birthday. Come on *, I'm your wife. Grow up a little. It hurts because I spent a lot of time thinking of things that you would like, and sending you things for your birthday. I could care less about getting a present, all I wanted was for you to at least acknowledge that it was my birthday.
I feel that I put wayyyy more effort into this relationship than you do. I need you to understand how hard this is for me and that's why I'm writing. Maybe then you won't take me for granted so much. It is very difficult for me to shoulder the cross of this marriage and feeling like I'm doing it mostly alone. You are incredibly good at getting your needs met however and whenever you want, with no real regard for my feelings. I have made you, as my husband, my sole outlet for meeting my physical and emotional needs (as much as a human can) and it's painful to realize that not only have you not done the same, but you are also unwilling or unable to be there for me in the ways I need you to.
There have been men that have made it very clear they want to pursue a relationship with me by attempting to give me things that you have not. I have not let it go farther than that so just hear me out. I realize throughout the course of a marriage there will always be other people who seem more able at times to meet our needs than our spouse is. I have not been stupid enough to fall for that but I need you to realize that you aren't the only one tempted in that area. It is hard for me at times. I tell you this so you can know the severity of what I am feeling. As much as I do love you, the pain and loneliness I feel at what has happened in our marriage and how alienated I feel from you so much of the time (and not just because of the distance that seperates us) has made it tempting to find something that will help me escape that. But I have not and the thing is, I never went out and searched for it.
I love you * and I want us to work out. I will do everything in my power to become a better person so I don't contribute to our marriage falling apart. But I need you to know that it takes 2 people to make a marriage work and I am tired of trying to do everything on my own. I am very tired. I realize you are far away and there are things you cannot do. I'm not stupid and I understand that. But there are many, many things- little things- that you CAN do to improve our relationship that you have not.
You may wonder where all of this is coming from. Well, I've been feeling this way for awhile and it just keeps getting worse so I thought I might as well get it out there.

~MG

There may be some who will have comments re: your email to your H, I have no comments or suggesstions about it.

I just want to congratulate you for doing a very difficult thing. It's not easy to 'pour your heart out' when the outcome is uncertain. You wrote honestly and openly, you told him how you felt to the best of your abilities and in the end that's what matters. Be proud of yourself. You've taken a huge step towards a happier, more open and honest M.

MG,

That was great. It actually choked me up because I WISH that my wife had put this to me the way you did before all of this happened to us. You have now told him, in a non-threatening manner, exactly what we talked about earlier in this thread. he knows how you feel. He now knows the sharks are circling around you (the other guys that want you). He also knows that you are still here, still committed to him and love him. BUT...he also knows that the ball is now in his court. The responsibility is now his. He now must make some decisions...as an adult.

You will now have to see what his reply is. It may not be good at first. He may be threatened. I talked with my wife last night about you and she said that he has a support system outside of you...the one in the military. A lot of how he reacts at first will depend on the "hommies." What I am trying to say is this may be less of a slap that wakes him up, and more of a wake-up call. It may be a seed that will take time to grow.

So, your job is not done. and even if he wants all of this, he may not know how to do it. He really may not know how to love you, no matter how much he may want to. So it is much easier to fall back on his support system. Be there. You will probably have to guide him through this. Let me give you an example.

When we are young (a little younger than the two of you), guys are VERY nervous about sex. We dont know what we are doing, and are afraid that we wont be "good enough" or do it right. Now most women dont want to say anything because they feel like it will hurt our feelings, or our egos. And it probably will if said the wrong way! But, most guys WELCOME their woman showing them what they want. And when we do it right, to let us know.

This goes for everything outside the bedroom also. We really are idiots when it comes to relationships. While guys are easy to figure out (just rub our bellies, and put food in our dish...and we are great), women are much more complicated when it comes to relationships. It is not the will here, MG. We are (most of us) not uncaring or stupid. We are just ignorant. Most guys werent raised to understand the dynamics of relationships...or women You had better believe my two sons will know! No need for them to go through what I have....AND...they will be a GREAT catch for some lucky woman some day because that woman will appreciate that they do know what they are doing.

Anyway, I digressed. Your husband probably does care. He probably wants to be ALL things to you. But he probably doesnt know how. Women go to other women when they need to find out what to do in a relationship (my wife's bestfriend came to her a few weeks ago asking how to "spice" things up in the bedroom for her husband...it was quite the talk!). We men have no one but our wives. We do not talk that way amongst ourselves. Most men that talk about sex, or anything to do with relationships, most likely are not in a relationship at the time. Once we are in one, we are expected to know everything, and do everything right. Not necessarily an expectation by our wives. It is an expectation that is mostly fed by ourselves.

You have done a great thing here. but this may not be the end. it may just be the beginning. But by doing what you have done and what you are doing, you may be looking back a few years from now and realize that it is what you did that saved your marriage. And helped your husband be all he can be (sorry...I know that is an Army cliche).

In His arms.

<small>[ April 10, 2003, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Thank you Mortar... it's good to know I wrote it in an OK manner. When I do something like this (which is rare) at first I feel that it went pretty well and I'm glad to have gotten it out. Then as times goes by and I don't hear from him I wonder if it was too harsh and start feeling bad. Then when he does write, he usually acts very hurt and confused which makes me feel even worse. I did get an e-mail from him this morning (very short) and he thiks this was all about my birthday. He said it hit him pretty hard but he thanked me for writing it. So now I'm really nervous!! Thanks again.

MG,

This is great news. You may not think so, but after reading his initial reaction, I now KNOW that he is in the exact same position I was before my wife had her affair. Let me show you

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I do something like this (which is rare) at first I feel that it went pretty well and I'm glad to have gotten it out. Then as times goes by and I don't hear from him I wonder if it was too harsh and start feeling bad. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A very natural reaction. But understand...this is just the beginning. You have been open and honest, without laying into him. He knows the situation now. I feel positive about your situation because of what you state below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then when he does write, he usually acts very hurt and confused which makes me feel even worse. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dont let it make you feel worse. him being hurt tells me several things. First, HE CARES! you dont get hurt over something you dont care about. Our egos are very fragile (yeah, big tough men, huh?). That is why your email was great. You didnt attack. You kept things centered on you, what you wanted, what you needed. We men need that. We arent very good at this relationship thing. That's why he is confused. Now is the time to guide him, without being controlling. It will be a delicate balance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did get an e-mail from him this morning (very short) and he thinks this was all about my birthday.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another reason why I am optimistic about you two. He is rationalizing away your email because he doesnt know what to do with it. Now, you must guide him. Dont let him set it down. Email him back and say that the birthday thing isnt it. It is just a symptom. That you know (even if you dont know...tell him you do) that he will be the man you want and need. That if he is willing, you will show him what you need. That he is the man you want to meet ALL of your needs. And so on. Then let's see what he does next.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said it hit him pretty hard but he thanked me for writing it. So now I'm really nervous!! Thanks again.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, dont be nervous. You did GREAT! It did hit him hard. But now you have begun. Dont let him off the hook. be sensitive, but be firm. Guide him. If what I read here is what I think it is, he is exactly how I was. And if you do this right, you may just be surprised on how responsive he will be. And then your friends and family will be jealous because you have a man that they wish theirs was.

Now, get moving and get your plan together. Email him back. Console him. Ease his fears. But do not let him off the hook. You are doing fine!

In His arms.

Dear MG,

Aha!! I bet you did not think I would follow you over here from the EN forum.

Once again, I want to remind you that you need to stay away from other men. It is just too easy to develop a relationship. Especially for someone so young, etc. as you. Please remember that you and your H have had a rough start, and his absence is not helping. However, he will eventually be back, and things will change.

I am still praying for you.