2 words-YOUR DAUGHTER.

MG, your letter was good! Just keep talking it out even if it is in emails. Sometimes that makes it easier. Be sure he knows it isn't just the Birthday. That was just one example.
Spell it out more clearly over time. Otherwise, they get stuck on one thing and that's it.
He needs to realize it's a lot more. May I suggest a book called His Needs/Her needs?
It's a great book. You both should read it.
God bless, LouLou

I have been stewing on this one, and realize that this will not be well received. MG, I realize you have this whole "women of the world out to get me thang" going on I've noted on EN - and although I'm not posting much these days I do read and read and read....

I'm seeing advice to you, great advice, from lots of people - and you single out one person to dialogue with pretty much almost exclusively. And he would happen to be male.

Now, I get it, I've always had great guy friends... run in a circle of guys and girls, sometimes my best friend was male, considered having my hairdresser come friend Bruce as my Maid of Honor if it wouldn't have given my mother a stroke. He wanted to wear taffeta and heels. Story for another day I guess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

But you open yourself emotionally to a man on purpose. Doesn't matter if it is on the internet, or right here where we can all "watch" you, or if something about his story strikes you.

You say you are vulnerable to an affair - so, suggestion, don't form any sort of relationship with a man while you are feeling this way.

What is it that a man can give you right now that a woman can't in regards to your question?

And why might that be a kinda iffy idea for you to start leaning on a man for support right now?

JMHO

Not part of the worldwide conspiracy, just pretty good at calling things how I see them.

E

Excellent observation JTW!!! You should give this some thought MG.

JTW:

Good to see a post from you again! Like the content, too.

regards,
-Qfwfq (fka T-zero, 2long)

So what would you suggest I do? Is there a certain female in mind that you would like me to "bond with" or are you just trying to micromanage with whom I spend more time interacting? MM himself said his M almost exactly mirrored mine- right down to his deployment and his W's carreer. Except for the fact his wife went ahead and had the A. I respect him and what he was telling me and was interested to hear his perspective on this since he and his wife have had so much in common with me and my H. So sue me. I see other women ask the men questions all the time on here. Like I have said many times, I appreciate all input. I have gotten alot of wonderful advice, from men and women on this thread so thank you all. I was hoping to get through just one thread without some sort of accusation, but I guess that just isn't possible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Again, thank you ALL. I am grateful for ALL the advice I've gotten here.

Sorry if I sound extra harsh. It's been a bad day and I'm PMS'ing.

Once again,

Why might it be kind of iffy for you to be leaning on a man for support right now?

Do you know the answer and not want to write it down - or would you like me to type it out for you?

Me either - not being harsh - making an observation, asking a question that remained unanswered.

In no way was this an attack. I'm not known for that. Not my style.

Do me a favor if you don't answer the question, go back thru the pages of the thread and tell me how many posters you addressed by name. Your online body language.

It matters not that something about his story strikes you, I pointed that out in my first post to you. What matters is that you are standing here begging to be convinced not to have an affair, and consiously or unconsiously you have made yourself open and vulnerable to a man.

This is how it happens in real life.

You look for support, a friend, a co-worker, someone in class..... something about them you connect with, you open yourself to them, you are vulnerable, and if things progress you find yourself in the middle of an affair.

I'm not judging anyone. Just calling it as I see it.

I'm not suggesting that Mortarman is doing anything wrong - sorry if it comes off that way.

You aren't doing anything wrong either - unless you count doing all you can to affair proof your marriage.

It may be that you consiously need to make an effort to distance yourself emotionally from men in order to get thru this time when you feel as if you are ripe for an affair.

I've been here a long time, and read lots of stories.... been to heck and back as a few could tell you. My observations are just that, observations.

And as far as anything I've said being an accusation... not even close.

MG, hang on a bit here. No one accused you of anything. All JTW did was point something out that maybe you weren't aware of. She makes some very valid points and there was no need to be defensive. People are trying to help you and not judge you (even though some come across that way).

As for no one else knowing how you feel, well that's simply not true. Any spouse who has a partner who is deployed knows EXACTLY how you feel. Myself included. If you want more input from people who are in the same situation then start another thread stating your situation in the topic line. If you want input/help from people more like yourself then ask for it!

No one is saying you shouldn't talk to MM. What JTW said was you need to be aware of your emotional state and be realistic about it too. It's not enough to be honest with us or your H, you have to be honest with yourself as well.

Just so you know, I've been told things at this site I didn't want to hear. After I had given some comments I realized that others were seeing what I couldn't, because I was too involved in my own life (obviously). What you get here is experience and objectivity (not 100% objectivity but, pretty good none the less.)

Just in case you don't know my background:

I'm an old timer here who also happens to be ex-wife to someone in the US Navy.

I've handled lots of depolyments. Some with little notice.

We came home from a weekend away relaxing once to find a post it note on the door, messages on our answering machine. He was depolyed on a special little deal called Uphold Democracy, in Haiti.

Less than 24 hours later, he was gone. They needed his specialty somewhere and he answered the call.

The first time I handled a deployment was when our firstborn (preemie/c-section) was almost 8 weeks old. We had moved cross country a week and a half before, and I didn't know a soul. I was alone, afraid, scared, tired, sore - you name it. He went to the Gulf for a second tour there.

As it has been said around here ever so many times, the posts that you don't like on your threads are the ones that just might be able to teach you the most.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for no one else knowing how you feel, well that's simply not true. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't remember ever saying or even implying that no one else knows how I feel. Hundreds of thousands of women have been through having their husbands deployed. I realize there are many, many women who know exactly what I'm going through, as far as the deployment goes. I guess the main issue isn't that my H is gone, it's the emotions I'm feeling and how I am reacting to what has happened in our M. I thought it was interesting that MM's wife went through the exact same thing- not just him being deployed, but many other similiarities as well, and it was helpful to hear MM's perspective (as the husband) on all of what has happened in their marriage. It IS especially helpful for me to have a man explain things because my H has a very hard time explaining his emotions or why he does the things he does. He is still very young and doesn't know how to sort through all of that so I'm left pretty much in the dark. I am a woman and I have 2 sisters and have had many, many female freindships and acquaintances throughout my life (believe it or not! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) so I'm very familiar with the way women work. His wife seems to have (or had) a lot in common with me, and he seems to have a lot in common with my H. It was interesting and helpful to me. That's all.
I didn't mean to sound defensive, a lot of things have been hurled at me here and a lot of people think they know my motives. I guess I'm just tired of people thinking they know exactly what I'm "here to do" or whatever, and I'm really not as evil and conniving as many people here think I am. (I'm not saying that's what you are implying, but many people here have so I guess that's what causes me to be a little more defensive) If I seem to focus more on what the men are saying at times, it is truly because of what I said earlier. I am so in the dark about the way my H's mind works and since he can't seem to explain it to me, sometimes it's helpful to hear another man's perspective, esp. when he has been through something very similiar to what we are going through. But everyone here has something different and helpful to offer and I truly, truly do appreciate all the input, even though I may not mention everyone's name. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Slowly and carefully:

It matters not that something about his story strikes you, I pointed that out in my first post to you. What matters is that you are standing here begging to be convinced not to have an affair, and consiously or unconsiously you have made yourself open and vulnerable to a man.

This is how it happens in real life.

You look for support, a friend, a co-worker, someone in class..... something about them you connect with, you open yourself to them, you are vulnerable, and if things progress you find yourself in the middle of an affair.

I am pointing this out to you:

If you do something like this in real life you might find yourself in a situation you don't want to be in.

You either get it, or you don't... for some reason I think you are going to spend all your time trying to defend yourself against me (how lame is that for I am known as the gal that at one time posted the happy song of the day) instead of reading what I am writing and thinking about it.

OK, sure. Whatever you say.

Thanks for the meaningful dialogue.

Your response to me shows that you are unwilling to look at things that may be difficult for you to swallow.

That's fine, let me know when you're ready.

The only way to figure out how your H's mind works is to ask him!!! To assume another man can give you some hidden insight into another man's behaviour is ludicrous. Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I know how women think. I understand the generalities of how each gender percieves things but, certainly not how a specific individual 'ticks'. Even when there's commonalities that doesn't mean a male has a huge amount of insight into the another male's psyche!!

If you are so desparate to understand your H and why he does what he does, or thinks the way he does... you have to go to the source!!

<small>[ April 13, 2003, 02:17 AM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

Okay, Okay. Everybody just calm down a minute. I want to address this issue here, because somehow I am in the middle of it.

First off, to everyone responding to MG about this...she is right. It would have been nice for me to talk to or post online to another woman that had gone through similar things or was similar to my wife. It would have been helpful for me to understand her mind set and what she might have been thinking to do the things she has done. While these things are remarkably similar, each one has its own uniqueness also.

My wife's situation pre-affair is remarkably similar to MG's. Her husband, while younger than me, seem to be making the exact same mistakes that I did. And now, MG is making the same mistakes as my wife did because she does not understand why her husband is treating her the way he is. I KNOW WHY! And if I can impart to MG the things I know, it may help her get her husband to open up before she is put in the exact same situation as my wife was. And then make the biggest mistake of her life. I think she is now getting it. Not about not having an affair...I personally believe MG really doesnt want to do that, otherwise she would have already done so. I think she may be getting an insight into her husband that she never had before. Too often, we all believe that the other spouse, the other gender, understands us. And too often they dont.

Now MG, I want to tell you that these people are also right. You are in a VERY dangerous situation right now. My wife had been pushing away female friends, while having more and more male friends as things got worse. Sure, they were platonic at the time. But once she got weak enough, all it took was one of those friendships, one of those men, to step up and be there for her. NEVER, EVER let any guy get close enough that they can do that! One of the things I did during this was to make sure that I stayed away from the opposite sex. Otherwise, I would have had my own affair. And when I found that I had dropped my barriers somewhat in order to talk to a female friend who was going through a divorce herself, we began just as friends. It was nice to talk to her, to hear things from the "other side." But I found as things got worse, I relied on her more and more when I was stressed or upset with my wife. And what I found was that I was days away, if my wife had not shown up on my door looking for reconciliation, from probably pursuing a deepening relationship with this woman. And all we started out was friends, who needed to talk.

The Harley's are so right. Whomever fills your love bank, YOU WILL FALL IN LOVE WITH THEM. So, I am here to help you MG. And I can give you insight into your husband. But you must be careful what you do, and who you talk to. I said in one of my earliest posts to you that you must break off all friednships with men, except in a professional environment (work, etc). Why? Because the Harley's are right. And if you dont set up boundaries, then you will ask why you shouldnt have an affair. You will have a guy like you have talked about step in and make you think you want to be with him. It WILL happen!

I am here to help you understand your husband. I am here to help you two realize things BEFORE you end up like us. But what these others are saying, whether it is true with me or any other man or not right now, just be careful and make sure you have your boundaries to men set up. That you lean on your husband, or your Dad as the only two men to lean on. That you lean on other women if you need that. Be careful!

Everyone else, I think you all get the point. I think in my case, MG has found someone who has a marriage that was very similar to what she is going through. And if I knew then, or my wife knew then, what we know now...well, we wouldnt be going thru all of this. MG has a shot. If you look at my earlier posts on this thread, you will see that I have tried to redirect her to helping her husband realize what it took an affair for me to realize.

I hope this may have cleared up this for everyone.

In His arms.

Morterman,
I can't speak for Justthewife, but I saw the same thing in MG's posts that JTW did. HOWEVER, that doesn't meant that there was anything wrong in YOUR posts. You seemed intent on helping...but even when others brought up the same issues, MG chose to only reply to you, a male. From reading many of her posts on EN, this is a pattern.

MG,
I keep reminding myself that at your age I was hanging out at bi-weekly fraternity house keggers, was one of the girls that was pinned/inducted into a female associate group for one of the frats, I loved the bar scene...and incidentally was in college getting an education, and surprisingly had very good grades, given my priorities.

You are young to have the commitments and responsibilities you do. But you also have a whole lot of life ahead, it really is best to do things that don't bring regret...adultery won't make you feel better, no matter how you try to justify it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I keep reminding myself that at your age I was hanging out at bi-weekly fraternity house keggers, was one of the girls that was pinned/inducted into a female associate group for one of the frats, I loved the bar scene... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unfortunately, I think many people here react to me out of exactly what you just said. They think that's the mindset I'm in just because I'm 21, when that is not me at all.

Anyway, thank you all for the help.

That's what I meant MG, there's a whole lot of difference between my behavior at 21 and your situation. Also a huge difference in who I was and now, when I'm twice that old and have been through a steep learning curve and been married to a military guy for 20 years.

I wasn't trying to make you feel worse.

mg -

read my sig line and you'll see that i'm not much older than you. i was 22 when i started my A with om, who was 20 at the time.

i see several similarities between your life and mine (pre-A):

1) h at one point was into porn. do guys not realize how much this kills?! how it tears us down right to the very bottom of our souls?? i couldn't believe it! it started pretty soon after we got married (at least that's when i found it) and ironically it was at the point that i still look at as the best our m as ever been. maybe that's why it hurt so much. things took a pretty nasty dive after that, let me tell you. i truly believe that almost all the issues that lead up to the A were things that we didn't/wouldn't deal with from the whole porn thing.

2) even though h is around, i was SO lonely. i remember sitting outside with him one night, neither of us saying a word to the other and just feeling like the saddest person on the face of the earth. yes, i know that's overly dramatic, but it's exactly how i felt. the night of our second anniversary, we were out with friends, he left early (with the understanding that om would drive me home) so he could watch a world cup soccer game, i got home and went to bed by myself. on our anniversary. i felt so utterly unimportant, unloved, and neglected!

3) h wouldn't listen. i'd tell him how i felt (see above). how we needed to spend more time together, etc, etc, but he didn't seem to hear. we got one weekend a month off together and he'd spend it playing golf with friends.

4) h encouraged my relationship with om, though obviously he didn't think an A would come of it. but he was always telling me to call om. it made him feel less guilty about playing golf, roller hockey, tennis, or whatever else and leaving me at home.

so i may not understand the deployment thing, but i've definitely been in your shoes. i remember saying to h that things had to change cause i couldn't live the rest of my life knowing that this was as good as it was gonna get. i wanted to go to mc. he didn't. he figured we should be able to fix things on our own... yeah, like that'd been working real well for us!

BUT...

now that i've spent all this time saying how awful my h was, i'll now tell you how much he's changed. unfortunately it took something as damaging as an A to make him wake up. (note: i'm not saying go out and have one in order to make things better!!) my h has surprised me with how much he's been willing to change and risk in order to make our m better. our situation is made more complicated by my being pregnant by om - there's a reason not to have an A!

my one piece of advice to you is this: in addition to all the great advice you've been getting here (from men and women), find someone close to you and h, and who values both of you and your marriage to talk to. your mom, dad, one of your sisters, a girlfriend... someone. you need to tell someone about how you feel about om. someone besides us.

i'm a major daydreamer myself and i think that really contributed to my feelings for om. dreams, thoughts, little fantasies, etc, are not idle and are not harmless! talking about it in the "real" world helps to dispell the mystic and the allure of this om. i wish i'd had the courage to do that early on in my friendship with om! some may advise you to tell h (the whole radical honesty thing), but from what you've said i totally understand why you might not be totally comfortable with that.

but tell someone!

you may actually be surprised by how much it'll help to be accountable like that. it's hard to be vulnerable about a weakness like that, but give it a try.

k, i think that's 'bout enough from me.

best of luck,

amy

p.s. i'll add one more thing. being in love with two men and being loved by two men may sound like a wonderful thing, but it's not. it's awful. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Amethyst-
Thank you so much for responding. It really does sound like we have alot in common, as far as our emotions toward our M's go. I'm so happy for you that things seem to be turning around. I can't imagine what it must be like to have to deal with all you've been through.
It's like a whirlwind for me right now. The A isn't as tempting as it would be if he were in town, so most of the time I'm able to put it out of my mind, which is good. Anyway, no need to get into all the details again. Thank you. I really appreciate it.