It is YOU that doesn't feel accepted here. No one on here has asked you to leave. In fact, some questions have been asked of you, in an effort to help you understand more about yourself.

For example... in our MSN chat, you mentioned that when you dated Dave, all you really wanted to do was find someone that you could take care of. Why is that? THAT is the type of work you should be focusing on... not why Dave did this, that or the next thing.

I can tell you something that will hopefully help you out here, as hurtful as it is... although you and I have our own issues and problems, it was not us that Dave was out to hurt. It doesn't matter who he's with. Our roles could have been reversed, and it could have been you that was married to him, and he still would have done the same things. It's all about HIM. I hope that makes sense.

So please... stop trying to figure out what happened to you BY Dave. You need to figure out why you make the choices you make.

You say that you've been involved in abusive relationships many times. What makes you a target/victim? Have you figured out the red flags, so that you can avoid it in the future?

My counsellor from the London Abused Women's Centre would FREAK on me if she heard me say that. It falls into the societal stereotype of it being up to the woman to watch out and avoid the abuse. When in fact, the focus should be on the abuser, and why is it that he does what he does.

You're right, in that according to MB principles, it is VERY WRONG for me to be dating, or even considering it right now, because I am not yet divorced. However, the reason I'm not D'd, is only b/c I have to wait out the full one year, according to canadian law. If I were in the U.S., depending on the state, I would have been D'd LONG ago. I think the difference in my situation which perhaps makes it "okay", is b/c I have filed for D, I have definitely tried my best to save my M, I have gone to counselling, I am aware of my faults within the M (yup... you heard that right... I am NOT perfect! Imagine that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ), etc. Am I looking for excuses here? Perhaps. Am I in a fog of my own? Perhaps. I am relying on my MB family to pull me out of it should that be the case.

For the record, I have only been on one lunch date, and that was a few weeks ago. I had no intention of getting to know this particular fellow, and in fact, used him as my guinea pig. I'm terrified of getting into a "rebound R", and convinced myself if I went out with him, that would eliminate that chance. LOL. To each his own, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Besides that, I am quite forward with the men I am conversing with, and inform them from the start that I have no interest in something long term at this time, b/c it's been too soon since the breakup of my M. I am NOT looking for sex... I have no interest in it whatsoever. I think it's b/c I keep on having visions of Dave molesting the 11 yr old. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Also... I need someone that I want to have sex with, in order to have that urge. Does that make sense? LOL. Okay... I've given out WAY TOO MUCH info there. Sorry gang! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Lisa, you do not need to explain to any of us "how it all came about" when you got involved with Dave. We all know he lied to you. We all know he's an a$$. We all know he used, abused, conned, lied, cheated, stole, etc from you (and me). NO ONE IS DOUBTING THAT!!!

Instead, what you need to do is find it within yourself to FORGIVE YOURSELF for getting involved with Dave. He's a GREAT liar. He convinced you of his side of the story. True, he conveniently "forgot" to mention some extremely important factors (like dates of events, his abuse, his lies, etc).... but that is NOT YOUR FAULT. Learn to let it go Lisa... and learn from the experience.

One of the biggest lessons we learn from being on MB is to believe in the ACTIONS, not the words. That goes with anyone and everyone in our lives. "Actions speak louder than words" is a phrase we've all heard countless times in our lives. Why? Because it's true. Live by it. It will help you immensely in your healing path.

Karen

Ok you have a great point. And like i told you before I am sorry for hurting you. I didnt know you..... dave said that you left and i felt bad because he came off as the victim. I have one question for you though---You said that you are or going to be dating???Its ok for you to be dating even though your still"married"??

Im sorry for the above post..didnt know the previous went through

I dont think i need councelling. People get divorced and remarried everyday.
Because it happens a lot, you don;t need counseling?

If more people HAD counseling and understood a bit more about commitment and marriage and how relationships SHOULD work, then there would be less divorce.

But society has become such a fast-food, throw-away place, a marriage/relationship becomes just something else to toss out and get a new one.

I understand now what you have been tring to tell me. Your right!! You should really think about writing columns in the paper.There is rerally nothing to say but Im really sorry that i got caught up in all this. And if there is anything I can do or say to make up for the hurt I put you though. Im saying this because I can imagine how you must have felt when you found out about me. I being in your house and I want you to know that if I had known you were the victim, I would have never even bothered..expecially hearing about his obsession with sex. You all make think Im a pack of lies but I am truely sorry:)

Hmmm... I read Lisa's last post just before I went out for the afternoon with the boys, and we just came home a short while ago. I was hoping there would be more commentary on here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Lisa... there is nothing you could do or say to make me feel better about your R with Dave. What's done is done. What bothered me the most about it, once I had time to figure it out, is that you hurt me b/c you were me 8 yrs ago. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I knew you were falling for his lies. Just as I had. I knew his parents were still enabling him (look at how nice and sweet Bill was to you, on December 29th when you helped with the move? He knew I had only been gone for a month... but did he say anything to you? I doubt it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). I also know there is nothing I could have said to you back then, to make you change your mind. In the same respect, there is nothing anyone was able to say to me, to get it through that Dave is no good. We both had to learn that for ourselves. But what do you think YOUR chances are, of it happening again? Mine are slim to none. I have some ways that will protect myself in my future.

What could you do to make it up to morals? I've said it before... call the police and tell them that Dave's been contacting you via MSN, and that you know it's violating his bail conditions. You are the only one who can do that. It's the right thing to do. You KNOW that. Sure, he'll be pi$$ed at you. But so what? HE is the one who's breaking the law, not you. Actually... you're an accessory to him, b/c you know about it, but aren't doing anything to stop it. (I already talked to the police, and there is nothing I can do about it... unless you give me his email address. Coming from me, it is merely "hearsay"). Lisa... YOU are the one who has to live with YOUR decisions. If you found out that by his continued MSNing, he was abusing and using more women who couldn't help but feel sorry for him, and you know you could have stopped them from being victims of his... would you call the police? You've got the power to save others from his harm. It's your call.

Now... you claim that I'm "right" and that you now understand what I've been trying to tell you. What is the message you've received? I'd like to hear it in your words, what it is that you've now learned. (I like Oprah's term of calling these times "aha moments"... they are wonderful... and the more you work on you, the more you have them, and the more your self esteem rises, and the better you feel, etc.).

And as far as writing a column for a newspaper or something...hahaha... I think the Harley's have it covered well enough on their own with this website, the telephone counselling, and the various books and articles out there. Oh! I almost forgot about the radio show! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Karen