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Joined: Aug 2015
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Hi everyone, I don't think I've posted in the normal forum areas before, just in the paid program forums. In 2015 my stbx and I started doing the coaching program. We had been married about 4 years at the time, I have known about MB for quite some time prior as a family member discovered it when her husband had an affair, so I was already well versed and using marriage builders principles for all of our marriage as best I could prior to my husband agreeing to coaching. My stbx, however, wasn't. I introduced him to MB in 2014 and it took about a year to get him on board with doing the program.

In the fall of 2015 things were moving along very well (or so I thought), he was treating me better, putting our marriage first, making decision together (for the most part) instead of deciding what we were doing and informing me. He seemed to be learning and agreeing with the lessons we were doing, we were enjoying our UA time, and so on.

In late fall of 2015 I received a facebook message from someone claiming to be the brother of a woman my stbx worked with. He (who is a very nasty person himself) claimed his sister and my stbx had been having an affair for years, that my stbx had been giving this woman money, buying her children gifts and so on. I had been snooping for quite some time, and could find no evidence of this. I had what I thought was access to everything. I talked to my stbx about it (I know, mistake, although it didn't really inspire him to hide things any better) and he claimed that she was a "crazy wh**e, and would sleep with anyone" and he didn't have anything to do with her because she was so crazy (gaslighting)

Around the beginning of 2016 he seemingly fell of the wagon. He reverted back to the person that he was which lead me to ask him to read the MB material in the first place. Trying to start arguments, making decisions on his own, treating me like my opinion didn't matter, blaming me for mutual decisions we made, now claiming he "didn't want to" do whatever it was we had specifically agreed. Basically trying to make everything my fault, and make me feel like I was impossible to please.

Something was obviously very off again, so I went back to checking up on him and snooping around when he wasn't home. Early spring 2016 I discovered the mother load of all mother loads of evidence of a SSL. It had been going on for 2+ years. He had a hidden cell phone, that was not even a burner, it was on a plan with her. He had bills with her information on them, so he had obviously been paying stuff for her, and so on and so on. I immediately kicked him out, and within 6 months moved a few cities away. I told him I would be willing to work on things but he would have to meet all the conditions necessary to create an affair proof marriage, as well as all the steps outlined in surviving and affair to be taken upon discovery of an affair. He claimed over, and over, and over, he was willing to do all this, and wanted to, and wanted our marriage and blah blah blah yet...never really did a thing.

To make a long story long, it has now been 2+ years. He has done basically nothing. I have seen him once in the last 10 months, and no longer even speak to him, (by his choice, although I know everyone will say I should be in plan B anyway for my own sanity). I have just started moving forward with a divorce, hoping he will be reasonable and work with my attorney towards a dissolution. I know this is the right thing to do at this point, but I'm having a very hard accepting it. Even though he is not even really in my life anymore, and hasn't been for a very long time at this point, I still miss the man I married, although I know because of his refusal to follow the program, and his behavior in general that man doesn't really exist anymore.

Are there resources here to help move on from a divorce? I know there are books out there from other sources, but, I'm so wary of them after everything I've learned from MB. Most of what is out there regarding marriage in general is so far off of what MB says, I'm concerned the resources for divorce recovery will be just as off base. I eventually want to remarry and have a family (I'm 34), and I want a MB marriage from the start so I don't want to allow myself to go off course while I make my way through this process. Can someone point me in the right direct to get started so when the time comes to start dating again, I'll be well prepared?


D-Day 3/27/16
Me/BW 35
Stbx/WH 48
No children
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Hi G550. I'm sorry to hear about these events. It sounds as if you've been through a horror story.

I'd like to, first, encourage you to change your screen name. I looked back on your posts, and it appears that you and your husband posted on Dr Harley's private forum under the same screen name. Here on the public forum, we discourage posters from doing that, as it creates terrible confusion for the people reading and replying. Since you are separated from your husband anyway, why not choose a new identity? I urge you to do this.

Second, do you mind if I ask what Dr Harley meant by this, when he wrote to your husband?

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Then, as details of your life started to be revealed to her, she discovered a huge secret second life where you had married her under very false pretenses. Very little that you said about yourself was true.

This seems to have been something that preceded the affair you are now writing about. I'm very curious as to what that was. If you'd rather keep that private, that's fine - it isn't what you wrote to us about, anyway.

As to the question you asked, I'm not aware of Dr Harley's having written anything to help people move on from a divorce, but he has published the book Buyers, renters and freeloaders. `in the blurb, he explains that this started out as a book for dating couples, and although it now focuses on married couples, it sets out the attitudes that you should be aware of when dating:

"Ready for a marriage that goes the distance?

Then be sure to look into Dr. Harley's Romantic Relationship Attitudes Questionnaire inside and see if you and your spouse are Buyers, Renters, or Freeloaders! These three attitudes reveal what you can expect of each other in the future if things remain the same.

Are you or your spouse a Freeloader unwilling to put any effort into caring for the other? Is one of you a Renter who views the relationship as somewhat tentative and will provide care only as long as it's convenient? Or are you ready to be Buyers, willing to invest the time and energy it will take to make your marriage last?

Not sure?

Filled with personal examples and practical advice, Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders will help you assess relationship attitudes and transform a Freeloader or Renter into a fully-committed Buyer. You'll even learn how one or both of you can try out the Buyer attitude before you decide to become one.

Although Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders was intended to be a book to help dating couples create lifelong relationships together, you will be sure to find this a most valuable source of information for your marriage. You will discover what is behind the attitudes that can cause connectedness between you and your spouse to break down. You will also discover how to change them."

Have you read the book?

How old were you and your husband when you married? Was this a first marriage for both of you? Does either of you have children from this, or earlier relationships? How old? Did they ever live with you while you were married?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Aug 2015
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Hi Sugarcane,

I will definitely think about changing my screen name.

With regard to what Dr. Harley wrote, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what he meant. What I took it as at the time is that because our marriage was young when the affair started (it would have been about a year and half after we married), my stbx, must not have been the person I really thought he was at all. Although I knew him for sometime before we started dating. Because of the way he seemed to become a different person in front of my eyes, I have to assume that much of what he told me about his life/relationships prior to me where not true, it was to much of a personality change for me to believe everything I thought was true prior the start of the affair was real. Although, several people I have talked to about the entire situation feel there is a strong possibility of drug use which could lead to a dramatic personality shift. I have nothing to prove that though.

I have not read Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders, but I will pick up a copy.

I was 28 when we married, my stbx was 41. First marriage for me, 2nd for him. No children from prior relationships or our marriage.

Edit: And yes, it feels like a horror story. That is an excellent way to describe it.

Last edited by G550; 06/20/18 12:54 PM.

D-Day 3/27/16
Me/BW 35
Stbx/WH 48
No children
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 12
D
Junior Member
OP Offline
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 12
Hi everyone, just looking for some encouragement today. I haven't spoke to my stbx in over 3 months now. Haven't really seen him since last labor day. I'm having such a hard time today resisting email him. Not that he would respond, he never has. I know that I shouldn't do it, I know that doing it, even if he doesn't respond (which he wouldn't) would only hurt me. But, someday's it is just so hard.

I discovered recently that the OW moved into the house he and I lived in. That's probably why I'm having to fight so hard not to email. It makes me realize he never really stopped seeing her even while begging and begging me to let him move in to my apartment, and telling me over and over that he wasn't even living in the house anymore himself (I always knew this was a lie) I have such a hard time reconciling this type of thing because behavior like that is so contrary to anything I would every do, let alone to someone I vowed to have extraordinary care for. The more I think about him and the way he has become, the more I wonder if this was really him all along and the drugs and alcohol just finally took away his desire to even try to be the person I deserve.

My dissolution is proceeding much more slowly than I would like, because, according to my attorney, his side has not responded to requests for financial docs. My attorney said she was going to try again and then start threatening with filing. I so don't want that to happen. That would drag this out even more. I just want it over. I want to be able to stop thinking about it, and worrying about it, I want us to be 100% legally disconnected so I can move on with my life. I have moved on in the ways I can, but, I can't help but still feel like he is holding me back in others, financially, etc. I just want it done.


D-Day 3/27/16
Me/BW 35
Stbx/WH 48
No children
Joined: Oct 2007
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Originally Posted by DeepAsTheOcean
Are there resources here to help move on from a divorce?

Have you read about Plan B?


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
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Originally Posted by DeepAsTheOcean
Hi everyone, just looking for some encouragement today. I haven't spoke to my stbx in over 3 months now. Haven't really seen him since last labor day. I'm having such a hard time today resisting email him. Not that he would respond, he never has. I know that I shouldn't do it, I know that doing it, even if he doesn't respond (which he wouldn't) would only hurt me. But, someday's it is just so hard.

Just in my experience in having read here on these forums over the past 10 years, the folks who won't cut all communication and go into Plan B are the ones who typically do not make much progress in moving on -- I have literally seen BSs here who come back years after the divorce and their posts sound no different than years before - full of thoughts of WS and OW/OM drama etc. To me, that is so sad. If you contact him, you are pushing yourself backwards - not forward. Is that what you want?

Quote
I discovered recently that the OW moved into the house he and I lived in. That's probably why I'm having to fight so hard not to email.
How did you find this information out?

Quote
The more I think about him and the way he has become, the more I wonder if this was really him all along and the drugs and alcohol just finally took away his desire to even try to be the person I deserve.

Your WH has a long standing history of SSL and loose boundaries around women. That is a recipe for disaster and, simply, not compatible with a good marriage. You really don't need to analyze his behavior any further than that.

Quote
My dissolution is proceeding much more slowly than I would like, because, according to my attorney, his side has not responded to requests for financial docs. My attorney said she was going to try again and then start threatening with filing. I so don't want that to happen. That would drag this out even more. I just want it over. I want to be able to stop thinking about it, and worrying about it, I want us to be 100% legally disconnected so I can move on with my life. I have moved on in the ways I can, but, I can't help but still feel like he is holding me back in others, financially, etc. I just want it done.
My experience with divorce lawyers has been very poor. I've had to change lawyers three times. In general, it seems like they have no problem wasting your time and money with useless calls and emails that do nothing. Push your lawyer to get things going and also start calling other attorneys. You are young and you have no children with this man - it would be in your best interest to get this divorce wrapped up ASAP so that you can move on with your life.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Apr 2001
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Great advice from SusieQ!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by DeepAsTheOcean
Are there resources here to help move on from a divorce?

Have you read about Plan B?
Yes, I know all about Plan B.


Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by DeepAsTheOcean
Hi everyone, just looking for some encouragement today. I haven't spoke to my stbx in over 3 months now. Haven't really seen him since last labor day. I'm having such a hard time today resisting email him. Not that he would respond, he never has. I know that I shouldn't do it, I know that doing it, even if he doesn't respond (which he wouldn't) would only hurt me. But, someday's it is just so hard.

Just in my experience in having read here on these forums over the past 10 years, the folks who won't cut all communication and go into Plan B are the ones who typically do not make much progress in moving on -- I have literally seen BSs here who come back years after the divorce and their posts sound no different than years before - full of thoughts of WS and OW/OM drama etc. To me, that is so sad. If you contact him, you are pushing yourself backwards - not forward. Is that what you want?

No. I absolutely do not want that. That is why I came here so someone would tell me that, instead of emailing him. I know that it's true, I know that it is what I need to do, sometimes I just need an outside source to encourage me along. smile I actually am finding life much smoother and more pleasant now that I am not in contact with him. I know longer wonder where he is or what he is doing, and honestly I don't even really want to know. I've unfriended and block his family, I do what I want, and what makes me happy without thinking of him. I suspect this will just be an on and off thing I have to fight until the divorce is final. I emailed Dr. Harley about it about a month ago and he said it will get easier as I go, particularly after seeing him in court for the last time.


Quote
I discovered recently that the OW moved into the house he and I lived in. That's probably why I'm having to fight so hard not to email.
How did you find this information out?

This was a hole in plan B that I did plug up. I have a friend who lives a few streets over from the house, she won't be telling me things anymore.

Quote
The more I think about him and the way he has become, the more I wonder if this was really him all along and the drugs and alcohol just finally took away his desire to even try to be the person I deserve.

Your WH has a long standing history of SSL and loose boundaries around women. That is a recipe for disaster and, simply, not compatible with a good marriage. You really don't need to analyze his behavior any further than that.

That is also true, but, honestly I think it makes it a little easier in my mind to realize that this is the way he is, and has always been because there is no changing that without effort he would never put in. I think in general I need to go back to working on thinking with less emotion regarding the last several years, maybe I need to up my AD for a bit. I actually have been doing very good at not thinking about this stuff, I had just had a bad day for sort of unrelated reasons when this info was given to me, and it just knocked me off course for a minute.

Quote
My dissolution is proceeding much more slowly than I would like, because, according to my attorney, his side has not responded to requests for financial docs. My attorney said she was going to try again and then start threatening with filing. I so don't want that to happen. That would drag this out even more. I just want it over. I want to be able to stop thinking about it, and worrying about it, I want us to be 100% legally disconnected so I can move on with my life. I have moved on in the ways I can, but, I can't help but still feel like he is holding me back in others, financially, etc. I just want it done.
My experience with divorce lawyers has been very poor. I've had to change lawyers three times. In general, it seems like they have no problem wasting your time and money with useless calls and emails that do nothing. Push your lawyer to get things going and also start calling other attorneys. You are young and you have no children with this man - it would be in your best interest to get this divorce wrapped up ASAP so that you can move on with your life.

I actually work in the legal field, the way divorce lawyers operate is pitiful to me. I have said to my co-workers more than once in the last couple of months that if we behaved the way these attorneys are, we would have no clients. Not to mention, given my position, I would expect some professional courtesy, which we would give to another firm, of which I have gotten none. I have been seriously considering switching attorneys, and will look more into that today.
Thank you so much for your response SusieQ! I truly value the advise you gave me and appreciate the time you took to read and write it.




D-Day 3/27/16
Me/BW 35
Stbx/WH 48
No children
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 12
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Hi Everyone,
Just thought I would update. I gave up on trying to get stbx to move forward with a dissolution. There were some issues that needed immediate attention, I conveyed them to my attorney, who talked to his attorney, who talked to him and he agreed to "immediately" mail me the info/material I needed to take care of things. A week later, after not receiving anything from him I instructed my attorney to file a complaint for divorce. I am done playing his games and living on his timeline. Our first hearing is scheduled for 12/4/18. I was going to say I expect his attorney to file a response and have it continued, but, to be honest, I don't know what to expect from him anymore!
There are some things that need to be worked out before a divorce can be finalized and I'm hoping the court can inspire some cooperation from him without dragging this out even longer, but, who really knows!
Life in general is moving along fine, I'm feeling much better about things now that I have substantial distance from him (haven't talked to him since May, haven't seen him really since September of 2017, save for an hour in January). I'm still struggling with not thinking about him, but, I think that will improve once the divorce is final. I'm hoping things move along more steadily now that the court is semi in control, and that soon all of this can be filed away in the "look at what I survived and flourished through" category of life.
Hope everyone is doing well.


D-Day 3/27/16
Me/BW 35
Stbx/WH 48
No children
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 12
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Well, we had our first pretrial this past Monday. I anticipated it being a challenge, but, it was soooo hard in ways I did not expect. I had not seen him for nearly a year and had not spoken to him for 7 months. I truly understand the benefit of plan B now. I was feeling so much more put together before this pretrial. I truly did not expect it to be so jarring to have to see and communicate with him.

We didn't communicate about anything personal, just the logistical issues that still need addressed to get this over with. although it was a real struggle to not carry on an everyday conversation with him. I cannot believe the emotional connection that still exists between us. How can you feel so strongly connected to someone you haven't seen or spoken to in such a long time?

I feel like I must not be normal to still feel this way towards him. I told someone afterwords that this must be like what people with addictions feel like when they relapse. They have had a taste of the sober life and know that it is possible and better, but, the alternative is so much less effort, and so enticing and being thrown from one side of the coin to the other and back again is so uncomfortable and unnerving.

On...I guess...the plus side, he seemed agreeable to all of my requests (well sorta of), so I'm hopeful that the final pretrial set for the end of January will be just a formality, or may not even need to go forward if we have worked out an agreement prior. (through our attorneys obviously, cuz I clearly should not speak to him outside of court).

Last edited by DeepAsTheOcean; 12/13/18 10:21 AM.

D-Day 3/27/16
Me/BW 35
Stbx/WH 48
No children
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Is there anyway that you can not be there so it doesn't have this affect on you? Could you lawyer do it? Do you have to be there?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Unfortunately not, I have to be there. I asked my attorney that specifically. The county I'm in does not allow for the parties to not attend hearings except for those that are specifically designated as "Attorney Conference". In my opinion this county does a very poor job of protecting litigants in this type of action. My Attorney actually told me that even though I had to go to the pretrial all I would do is sit in the hall, but, then, his attorney was 40 minutes late(!) so by the time she got there the judge wasn't even available. So, mostly our attorneys went back and forth to us, and then briefed a magistrate on that status...while we sat in the hall.


D-Day 3/27/16
Me/BW 35
Stbx/WH 48
No children

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