Hello all. This is my second introduction but this time starting at the beginning with some background.

I’ve been with my WH for 20 years. We met in college in a Psych class. It was not love at first sight with me but it was with him. I liked him as a friend and noticed he was checking me out in class and told my mom. He eventually grew on me like a fungus lol.

After a month of dating he called me to break it off “temporarily” he said. I was confused. Nothing had happened. Anywho we dated for 4 years after that. There was emotional abuse, psychological abuse, and verbal abuse. He was just all around controlling. I didn’t know what verbal abuse was but I discovered it on the Oprah show.

We got engaged in 2003. I wanted to call the wedding off but was too young and stupid to do so. We got married in September of 2004. Worst day of my life. It went horribly. Cried all the way to Mexico. Had to go to therapy I was so traumatized.

By 2005 the abuse got much worse. It led to domestic violence. Police. Court. Attorneys had to be involved. We lost a lot of money. Financial stability was gone. By 2010 we had to file Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

During this time I became severely depressed. Gained tons of weight. Discovered he had a porn addiction in 2012. By 2013-2014 I decided to take control of my life. Started running and joined a fitness group ran by my friend. I lost the weight and felt confident and was back to myself before I met my husband. Yet there was one huge thing. My husband wouldn’t touch me. I didn’t know what was wrong and blamed myself. Started asking my friend what I was doing wrong. I even planned a romantic trip to New Orleans. Bought lingerie etc the whole nine and just nothing.

Meanwhile my friend was giving me the attention my WS wouldn’t. We talked everyday. Eventually we begin to flirt with each other. I actually told my husband that I was sexually attracted to him and that I wanted to sleep with him. He told me not to do it and that was the only conversation about it. My friend called me and expressed his feelings to me. I felt the same and we set up a time to meet up outside of class. As I drove to his house about a week later I kept telling myself to turn around but talked myself out of it. I still wish I would’ve turned the darn car around.

My affair lasted a year. By February of the next year the fog was wearing off. He was acting like a jerk so I ended it. Guilt set in and also rumors of my friend liking me was starting to occur. I wanted to be the one to tell my husband so I told him. He was in shock for days. We spoke about the affair for 6 months after this. He knew The Who, how, and when. I decided I had enough and stopped discussing it. He felt hurt and slighted that I did.

By 2016 I wanted out. We both were miserable. I wanted a divorce but didn’t want to disappoint ppl who loved my WH. So I waited. By 2018 I discovered he had an impulsive spending problem. The more we made the faster he wants to spend it. I asked for him to get some help. He refused to admit he had a problem. I was devastated.

By fall of 2018 I suggested we see other ppl. I told him I was signing up on dating apps. I honestly had no desire or intention to date any of these men. I never did but lied and said I met one to get my WS’s attention. He was furious and signed up on a dating app himself. By February he told me of her existence but made it sound like they had just met. They were only talking on the dating app and it wasn’t that serious. The only reason I knew it was a threat to me because he kept saying he wanted to explore this woman. He even pushed me to date other men. At that time I truly wanted to save my marriage. I told him to stop speaking to her at once and that we weren’t using dating apps or seeing others. He lied and said he would do that. At that time what I didn’t know and what he chose not to tell me was they had been talking since November of 2018. They had already exchanged numbers. That he was already hooked and addicted. I feel devastated that I didn’t implement Dr. Harley’s plan then. I could’ve prevented the sexual part of the affair. I don’t care about the emotional part so much but it’s the sexual violation that’s killing me the most.

By June of 2019 I felt or knew in my gut he was more than likely seeing someone. I just didn’t know who where or when. He again stopped having sex with me because now I know he was sexually involved with her by that point. He lied to me and told me he had sexual issues and I kept saying he was asexual from 2018-2019. He started dressing way better and self grooming. By July I wanted a divorce and told him this repeatedly through the year because we were not intimate at all. I was introduced to a guy through a friend and we begin dating. Everyone knew of him. It was no secret. I even put it on Facebook. I chose not to tell my WS because he gets jealous, irrational, and vengeful. Which is what he did anyway.

We were proceeding with the divorce by then. We had to wait for his bonus the next year because as usual we were flat broke. At this point my now boyfriend broke it off with me. I was devastated and called my WH. He was mad at first because I hadn’t wanted to talk to him in months. I had kicked him out of the house in August over money and his anger. Police were called and he was asked to leave.

So we begin to talk. He helped me with my boyfriend issues. I asked if he was seeing someone and he said yes. I said how long he said only a couple of months that it was new. We truly at the time became friends. Apologized for our past mistakes, cried about it but decided to move to divorce the following February.

But in about two weeks something felt off. I thought it was odd he moved on so quickly. So me being the Virgo Psychology major I am researched it. What stood out is one particular article said if they moved on that quickly they already had someone waiting in the wings. I scoffed at that and said he would never do that but it stuck in my head. So the following days I asked him about this woman and what he liked about her. Long sigh he proceeded to give me the exact description of the woman from the dating app. I didn’t confront him then but I slept on it. I called him 30 minutes after midnight and confronted him. I said this relationship isn’t new is it? Why would she be asking you to get a divorce so quickly in a new relationship. He finally said fine I’ll tell you. Told me she was the one from the dating app. Told me they had been friends for a year and just begin talking. I screamed lies! He was angry and started lashing out at me. I said you’ve been cheating the entire time!

For about 3 days he wouldn’t give me a name. Wouldn’t give me her phone number. I finally said if I wasn’t given the info he better hire an attorney and file that day. He broke it off horribly might I add by text. He told me I was the one only one he loved and he talked about me the entire time. We decided to stop the divorce plans and try to work it out. There has been hysterical bonding that’s been amazing but that only lasts so long. 5 months for us. The last 6 months have been 1 step forward 2 steps back. Trickle truth. Lying. Defensiveness and blaming me for the affair on his part. We’ve agreed to try to give it until September to move ahead. We’re still separated but see each other every week. Talk all day and phone each other on a schedule now.

I’m just scared to death I’m making a mistake because of past abuse, betrayal, and now an affair. I don’t need companionship at all costs. Sadly being in this marriage has taught me to be independent to avoid the constant hurt and betrayal. I love my spouse but I love my sanity and mental health more. I’ve become depressed and even suicidal over this affair. I will make it through this. Just don’t know what the future will look like.


That’s everything in a nutshell and was the shortest I could make this. Thanks for listening.

Thanks Tabby! And please thank your husband for starting up his own thread. I hope he will come back and answer my questions and speak to us.

Will you please pick up the book Surviving an Affair for you both and start reading it? The program we are going to give you is in that book. In the meantime, please read this article about undivided attention and start setting up weekly dates using the schedule. The dates should be focused on meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. You should also avoid the enemies of conversation and avoid any discussion of your affairs or past mistakes. Focus on being as pleasant as possible!

Policiy of undivided attention

UA Worksheet - use this to schedule your dates

Intimate Conversation

We ordered the books and they arrived in two days. I have it on Kindle. Ugh he lied and said he started reading them last night and today I’m furious. He took off from work today to spend time with me. I did lose my $@!? because I’m tired of the silly lies.

Well my brother is moving and asked me to pick him up from the local U Haul. Turns out he needs a ride to his new house which is where my annoying WH lives. We’re meeting for lunch. Please pray I won’t need bail today. I’m truly tired. I want to quit so bad.

He will be back to answer your questions today.

MelodyLane thank you so much for your help. It’s truly priceless.

I swear it feels like I’m going to leave these forums single

Did you read Anger Management 101 yet?

No I didn’t. He’s killing me. The constant lying is ridiculous. It’s not me it’s him. No one ever grates my nerves like this man does.

My WS can not talk bad or negative about the affair partner to save his life. I see it as very suspicious. I’m currently getting pricing on a lie detector test. We’ve been fighting about this for a long time now.

Am I overreacting? Everything is so new and I’m suspicious of everything. Is this common for the WS to do this?

On the last text that was sent the AP said tell your wife she got what she wanted. As if I was in some competition with her. I didn’t even know she existed?! What competition? How was I winning?

Why is it so hard for him to see her for what she really is? Does this really matter? I can honestly tell you it matters to me. Not only was she the OW but we discovered she was seeing multiple men the same time she was seeing my spouse. She also was involved with a married man before my WS.

Every time he tries to convince me it’s weak. He said he can’t hate her.

Tabby, I would stop talking about this with him. IT is wrecking any chance you have at recovering your marriage. I told you previously how to make sure he is not still seeing the OW. A polygraph will help, but you need to check in other ways too.

Stop fighting, stop discussing the affair and get to work on the program! You should each be reading a chapter or 2 of SAA every and discussing it. Did you plan out your dates like we advised?

And where do you stand on this checklist?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Has he changed all of his contact information? New phone number? All the avenues that they used to contact each other, have these been closed?

I agree 100% It is ruining any chance at reconciliation and I just want to quit now. I honestly don’t understand his behavior at all and I’ve literally been in his shoes. I’m baffled and at a loss.

It bothers me greatly that he doesn’t see her for what she is. That he acts like it pains him to speak bad about her. It’s alarming to me and doesn’t make any sense. He even defends her by saying it’s his fault she was jealous of me and in competition with me.

The way I see it is they’re both responsible. She is a 38 year old woman that knew he was married. I agree that if I want to save this marriage I must let this go and stop discussing her but I have no one to speak to about my pain and fears. My family and friends see me as strong and that I don’t need help or to be checked on. Also like grief people just automatically move on.

I did reread chapters in the book and it sunk in. I see what you’re saying and why we keep messing up. I think both of us want things from each other that we’ll never get. We’re making no deposits but many withdrawals. It’s a disaster and I know it.

No he had not. I tried to compromise because he didn’t want to change his number but perhaps that’s a mistake. They communicated through phone call and texts. I’ve read his emails and that’s the only avenue I don’t have the password to. Keeping his old number is because of work.

When was this? How recently has she contacted him?

Does he ever speak to her? Does he reply to texts and calls, or does he initiate them himself?

You need to accept that he will never hate her. It is painful for the BS to face this, but they were kind to each other and made each other feel good. I doubt that she was ever spiteful or vicious or violent towards him. When people hate an ex, it's usually because there were nasty things done from one to the other, but during an affair the partners are nice to each other. There will not be hatred or even dislike when the affair is over. There might one day be regret, but not dislike. The best you can do is to avoid probing that issue because it will only make you feel terrible, over and over.

You can argue all you like that she harmed you, and that therefore he should see her as a bad person, but that was not how it felt when he was in he affair. He can probably be forced to admit that logically, a woman who slept around and had affairs with married men is not "good", but you can't actually change his feelings about her. What in fact you are doing by trying to get him to discuss this is bringing up her memory day after day, instead of allowing it to fade.

It seems that you have not cut contact with her. Also, how far does she live from you? If you do not change you lives so that there is no more contact, she will continue to resurface, or the possibility of their meeting up will remain, and you will never recover. The line about keeping his phone number for work is bull; people change their phone numbers all the time.

I suspect that you feel insecure because he has not demonstrated a commitment to ending all contact. You are right to feel insecure, if that's the case.

More dates haven’t been planned but we did plan a spontaneous weekend together this past weekend. Beautiful hotel room with a lovely rooftop restaurant. It was a disaster because I’m still furious about his cheating. I honestly don’t know how anyone else gets over the pain and anger. Plus the hysterical bonding has ended and ED, low T, and other physical and emotional issues are at play now. My love language is physical touch and it’s been really bad for 30 days now.

My WS had a revenge/anger affair. It wasn’t organic. It didn’t start from boundaries being gradually and slowly crossed. He wanted to cheat so it hurts even more. It’s more devastating. He literally moved me out of the way to cheat with this woman. I don’t know how to deal with that. It shows intent and malice. He knew it would cause irreparable harm. It’s just hard to describe what this feels like. I’m struggling horribly.

We’ve done everything on the list except there was never a no contact letter. Yes this bothers me. Is it too late to do so? I read up on having no contact with the affair partner so it won’t spark drama. Yet I would feel better if a no contact letter was sent because by Dr. Harley’s example letter it is also tells the AP that they’re choosing their family and the affair with them was the wrong choice. I like that because it’s a declaration for the marriage and against the AP.

We haven’t changed numbers on emails. Yet we can. Actually we both should change our numbers.

Also we’re still physically separated. I was beginning to reconsider this arrangement but didn’t feel ready and we keep hurting each other. I’m scared to death to have him here 24/7. Yet this might be part of the problem.

I spoke to my WS this morning to ask him what he wanted to do. I said we either follow Dr. Harley’s instructions to a T or we move on to plan B. My WS wants us to follow the book. I’m the reluctant one. I’m moving closer to full separation and no contact. I feel torn. I just want to stop hurting and being alone just feels like peace to me.

I want to say that I apologize in advance if it seems I’m not listening or choosing to follow what you veterans in this forum are saying. I believe every bit of advice you’re giving me. I’ve read what can happen when the book isn’t followed.

I think perhaps we’re too toxic and too much damage has been done. I know every marriage can’t be saved and that might be us.

That was on November 14, 2019. That is the last time he claims to have no contact with her. I have access to his phone whenever I please. Yet I know that if she used another number or if he called from his work phone I couldn’t stop that.

The last time she ever tried to contact him to my knowledge was a few days before Christmas through Facebook. He called me immediately and told me. I told him to bring the phone so I could see the message. She did her typical “hey” and waited for him to respond. We weren’t sure of what to do and everything I was reading at the time said not to give her a response or any attention. We were torn but decided no answer was an answer. Not sure if that was a good idea or not.

She had been blocked from all social media.

Yet he is still on FB, and he has kept his phone number. You also have no way of checking what he does from work. No wonder you feel insecure.

Why did you call this thread "is he still seeing her?" Do you feel that he is still?

As I read your response I cried and it was a knife in my soul. You are correct he will never hate her. He enjoyed every minute of the affair and I must accept that if I’m going to stay. That might be too much for me to bear. It’s just how I’m made. If he liked her so much then he should just be with her then.

You’re right I’m only hurting myself by asking him. She will always be part of our marriage history. Even if we never speak of her again. That’s the tragedy of affairs. What you speak is real raw truth and I’m not accepting it like I should.

I agree. The number should be changed. It would show me he is trying everything to fix this.

I’m at the point of acknowledging this whole situation is way too painful for me. I’m looking at cutting my losses now. I never imagined I would be in a marriage where I must accept that my husband will have fond memories of the woman who destroyed my life and marriage.

Most affairs die a natural death and at that point, the affair partners often dislike each other. If an affair is discovered and stops while the affair partners are still in love with each other, they are probably going to still harbor positive feelings for each other. At some point, he is likely to regret the affair, but the reason eliminating all means of contact is because of the addiction of the affair. Yes, it's painful for the betrayed spouse to realize this but that's the nature of an affair. An affair is often extremely enjoyable and thrilling; hence the affair fog.

Thank you so much for your response. It’s sinking in and you would think I would know what he’s thinking because I’ve been the wayward spouse myself but I don’t. I would have to dig deep and way back to my own affair to relate. Affairs are addicting and that’s why we can’t stop them unless they die on their own.

You have a good point about a natural affair death and one that is ended for you. Although I had withdrawal and still thought I loved my AP, I was the one who ended the affair. I confessed.

What’s confusing for me is he said he never loved her. He loved me still. Unless that’s a lie cause who would believe a liar right. I know he really liked her and even cared for her. I know he was addicted to her and the emotional and sexual needs she was fulfilling. I struggled with withdrawal too so I get it.

What puzzles me is it’s been 6 months now. Yet he still feels this way? That’s why I begin to suspect she wasn’t really gone. According to the book he should be past withdrawal and out of the fog now. So what gives?

Also I’m fully aware that we chose to hurt each other by having affairs. Our motives are different which might explain some things and I’m a woman and things changes everything.

I just feel like if our AP’s were so wonderful then why not just be with them? Why not just let this marriage die and be with someone who hadn’t hurt us this way. I don’t have to continue to suffer and I wouldn’t ask my WH to do so either. I really am feeling this is the end now. Not because of not trying but we just can’t fix it.

I have no way whatsoever to check anything from work. At least that I’m aware of. I will ask him is there a way to monitor work activity. It depends on the work policy but I will inquire about what can be done.

I have no sense of security. Even with all of that I truly feel ppl can cheat if they choose to. Yet a bit of assurance never hurts.

The reason I named this thread that is because of how he talks about her still. He compares me to her. Feels empathy and feels sorry for her. He said she’s a messed up person like he is. Of course this comes up because I ask questions and want to know why he did what he did. He is being honest and never brings her up randomly.

I understand logically why Dr. Harley says to get all questions out and to stop speaking of the affair. It’s just not how my brain and heart works. I’m still in extreme pain and I’m furious. I think it’s unbelievably cruel to purposely have an affair to hurt your spouse because you’re angry at them and chose not to speak up. If he didn’t want the divorce then choosing the to have an affair is a funny way of showing it.

He’s not God and he doesn’t get to dole out punishment the way he see’s fit.