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Please remind us: why do you want to save this marriage?
I have asked this question before, but without clear answer.
It would be perfectly reasonable to decide against it. Could you answer this question?
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Hi canadien74, After following your thread for some time, my sense is you are struggling still, quite intensely. You do not seem to be listening enough to the advice being given. You seem in a repeating loop of asking the same questions - or variations of the same questions - over and over again. You seem stuck on why did she do it and wanting her to answer this. You may never be able to get a satisfactory answer to this question. She did it for the same reason why all people do it according to Dr. Harley, that it is part of human nature to have affairs if precautions are not taken to avoid affairs. Hello guys, so I want to understand this scenario better and what it means.
Her defence is I abandoned her and neglected her for all this years; she meets OM and they share great connection together, he even has a child to fulfill her desperate need for a baby. Ignore this and stop asking her why. Who cares what her defense is. She herself may not know why. Maybe you did neglect her, maybe you did not, but it is not relevant at this point. She had poor boundaries around this man, needs were met and she had an affair. People in affairs rationalize why, often after the fact. Complaints from her on your past failures are only useful if it gives you information you can use to better meet her needs now. The rest is irrelevant and to be ignored for now. Now, I ask her about where my place in this relationship as since last year she admits that I have changed radically and pay more attention to her needs. Stop asking her where your place is, you already know where your place is. Just keep paying attention to her needs if you want to save the marriage. Her admission shows progress which is good. Stop talking/asking questions and just keep doing. I demand that OM is occupying my place and he has to go; whats wrong with this demand? You can demand all you want and if she ignores your demand, then what? You have 2 options: keep doing plan A, or separate/divorce. If after your plan A - for a reasonable time - she still ignores your demand that she not continue her affair, you then have 1 option: separate/divorce. Shouldn't she know that for healthy marriage u can not have a leech hanging around? Yes, in theory. But in reality her affair showed that she did not want a healthy marriage. She wanted the affair! Over time this may change if you do a good job of meeting her emotional needs (i.e. plan A). Or it may not, which brings you back to the separate/divorce option above. She keeps talking about all the favors OM did for us; and she repays all favors in full according to her and she does not abandon good friends like how I do. This is 'fog' talk and her trying to rationalize her affair. Ignore this nonsense. Why discuss this? So, if the OM stays in our life and keeps doing the favors than how do I get to the marriage recovery? You can't. He has to be out of her life before recovery can even start. As long as there is any contact with the former affair partner, recovery is not possible. No exceptions. This is why exposure is so important and why other posters advised going all in on exposure and not following the advice of well-meaning but misguided family members who are not experts on surviving affairs. She completely blanks out when I ask her about what led her to believe that it was OK for OM to replace me; she either hits me or starts talking about past negligence I did. Do not ask this. She demonstrates she is resentful because of past neglect, which may or may not be true on your part, I don't know. She believed it was ok because she was having an affair and people in affairs rationalize their behavior, often after the fact. She herself may not understand why. Yes, you were wronged. But hoping to get a rational answer or her to admit she was wrong is pointless. Stop these questions which lead nowhere or make the situation worst. How do I get an answer without her talking about past to make me look like a bad guy? How do I get her to Now moment. You want an answer, but the answer is above!!! Why do you keep trying to get her to explain why she had an affair? This has already been discussed. She has/had poor boundaries around this man and she allowed someone else to meet her needs because no precautions were in place to prevent this, with you even encouraging it through your misguided thinking that OM was a mentor! She may very well continue to have no precautions in place until recovery is well underway, which means that if recovery does not happen, she will probably restart this affair if it has stopped, or have new affairs! The affair partner has to be forever out of her life for recovery to even start. There is no exception to this so stop repeating this question. A full exposure often breaks the affair and gets the OM gone, but in your case he is family so you have to go even further and make sure the OM is never interacted with or seen ever again the rest of her life even at family events. If she is not willing to get the OM out of her life forever, with no exception, then recovery will never happen and your marriage will never recover. Lastly, I would also echo the last question above. Are you sure you want to save this marriage? Correct me if I am wrong, but you have no biological children with this woman. If you now love the OM's kid and want be the baby's father, I commend your decency as a human being. But if she continues to keep the OM in her life, can you continue?
Last edited by Blackhawk; 11/24/20 10:17 AM. Reason: grammar
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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My wife just started another game and I am at a loss how to respond.
So on Diwali festival she calls up OMW and talks to her about how they are celebrating the festival and how things are going; 1 week later she mentions that OMW texted her about another baby with similar name as my son;
and just Today she mentioned that the School locked down where OM daughters are studying due to Corona virus breakout.
I just keep rolling my eyes; Yet, I am not saying anything. What would you guys say about her way of bringing OM into daily conversation when I want nothing to do with him.
What would you say or Do whenever she talk about OMW and his daughters? She knows that talking about OMW or his daughters keeps her safe from my angerness so she keeps poking me with that.
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Have you emailed Dr. Harley?
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the broadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Canadien, people here are on your side.
We can only help you, when you interact with us.
Many people have posted, but we do not always see a response to the postings.
E-mailing Dr. Harley is a wonderfull idea in your tricky situation.
God bless,
Happyheart
me, DH
all the children
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Canadien, people here are on your side.
We can only help you, when you interact with us.
Many people have posted, but we do not always see a response to the postings.
E-mailing Dr. Harley is a wonderfull idea in your tricky situation.
God bless,
Happyheart Hello there all the members on this forum that are giving me feedback; And I understand the Frustration that other members on this forum have come across as I have not done a proper affair disclosure to my family members and I take full responsibility for my inaction. Yet, all this inaction is due to guilt that I had built for long term as my wife accused me of abandoning and neglecting her needs since we got married; I felt that I was responsible for what ever difficulty I was having trying to get her to quit on the OM and the affair as my Cousin provided that comfortable venue for her to reach that happiness that I could not give her. I am trying to challenge myself to understand my wife needs and to improve our marriage; Yet, she is still stuck being resentful and hurt for the past hurt that I may have inexplicably done to her. I want to work to improve this marriage because I know my wife and she has very little demand in life other than having attention and admiration for her great work she does day to day; She is also very sensitive soul and is hurt a lot little things that happens in our family or at work, this is something that I have to teach to learn to grow with. How would you guys comfort a person who is very sensitive and affected very strongly by environment around them? I know the OM was able to persuade and led her to a very strong emotional attachment toward him because she wanted to be pampered and get away from all the hardship of daily work and family life; I am working on plan A to make her believe and have faith that I am there for her and I am looking out for her needs. I know this is the heart of MB program and that is to find a loving and healthy marriage, and I am very grateful for your great advice and wisdom that I have come across over the last few months; So can you forgive me for being more reserved as I have a lot of conflict within that I need to overcome before I can face the world and answer some tough questions.
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Have you emailed Dr. Harley?
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the broadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question. Are you going to write Dr. Harley?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Joined: Sep 2020
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Have you emailed Dr. Harley?
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the broadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question. Are you going to write Dr. Harley? I contacted Dr. Harley; And had a chat with Joyce regarding the conflict I am having; They broadcated my story Yesterday 12.1.2020 and called my alias name Paul to protect identity; I will keep contact with them to get better idea of how to manage Plan A and actions are required to make progress for Marriage recovery; thanks guys for your feedback.
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Well done canadien74 on contacting the Harleys for help! I listened to the show and knew it was your situation immediately.
I wish you well and the best of luck on your journey.
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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Sorry I missed it. I will listen when I can.
Someone care to recap? What did he say to do about exposing to OM’s BW?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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As I recall the gist of the advice given on the show by Dr. Harley was to expose to the OM's BW. He deemed that very important.
Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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As I recall the gist of the advice given on the show by Dr. Harley was to expose to the OM's BW. He deemed that very important. Thank you Blackhawk, I appreciate it. canadien74 when will you be exposing to OM’s BW?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Hello there guys;
Covid19 has entered our home as my brother got infected last week, and its spreading to all of us; We are all quarantined and ordered to stay home from work.
My wife has been busy taking care of the baby and preparing food for the family; I also help out whenever I can.
My wife has been sharing her difficulty trying to make everyone happy in the house; and I am supporting her as my sister in law just stays in her bedroom for her safety from virus leaving my wife and me to do all the house chores.
Would going through difficult time together strenghen our emotional connection?
I try to make positive gestures and acts whenever I can but its so damn hard during this pendamic period.
Would you reccomend for both of us to listenning his need her need with children? Or would that trigger more bad memories?
I am just looking to avoid love busters and actively acknowledge my error whenever I say something without consideration for the other, in a sense she is keeping me accountable for my words and action and I see no problem with this.
How would you guys reccomend I respond when she makes me accountable? Is it a good way to keep communication open for both of us to share our feelings regarding how things are moving in life.
With children And job we are gonna be constantly exhausted for next few years and she wants both of to simply accept the challenge and go through it gracefully enjoying as much as I can even during tough times together.
How do you guys reccomend we scout though the difficulty that we face with full time job, house duty and raising a baby; while reigniting the romance and love for each other.
Last edited by canadien74; 12/10/20 07:32 PM.
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How do you guys reccomend we scout though the difficulty that we face with full time job, house duty and raising a baby; while reigniting the romance and love for each other. Hi Canadien How are you doing with following the advice Dr Harley gave you? Great that you are doing plan A but unless you kill the affair, this will be pointless. I believe he told you to contact OMW and get her to snoop. Can you update us on how that is going?
3 adult children
Divorced - he was a serial adulterer
Now remarried, thank you MB
(formerly lied_to_again)
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How do you guys reccomend we scout though the difficulty that we face with full time job, house duty and raising a baby; while reigniting the romance and love for each other. Hi Canadien How are you doing with following the advice Dr Harley gave you? Great that you are doing plan A but unless you kill the affair, this will be pointless. I believe he told you to contact OMW and get her to snoop. Can you update us on how that is going? Hey there Living_well; The OM has been talking to his ex girlfriends from 20 years ago who is divorced, he is also emotionally soothing colleague at work who has difficulty with her husband; all his friend circle is pro affair thats all they talk about any time they get a chance to escape their wifes. I did have one what if scenario conversation with OMW; and she thinks men have right to cheat and its women fault for the affair; even in my scenario she says that her husband does what he is expected to do and puts my wife at full responsibility; even all this actions were possible because I chose to intervene; she knew about the affair, yet did nothing because this is normal expectation from her husband; as long as he gives her the expected love, vacation and a possible hotel business she is golden. I might go to her in the future but because of her inaction and reservation about mens right for an affair gives me a pause; how can I start to make her understand any of this emptional attachment and stuff when she thinks my wife tricked her husband to do something he did not want to do.
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Hey there Living_well;
The OM has been talking to his ex girlfriends from 20 years ago who is divorced, he is also emotionally soothing colleague at work who has difficulty with her husband; all his friend circle is pro affair thats all they talk about any time they get a chance to escape their wifes. So OM is a player, no surprise. I did have one what if scenario conversation with OMW; and she thinks men have right to cheat and its women fault for the affair; even in my scenario she says that her husband does what he is expected to do and puts my wife at full responsibility; even all this actions were possible because I chose to intervene; she knew about the affair, yet did nothing because this is normal expectation from her husband; as long as he gives her the expected love, vacation and a possible hotel business she is golden.
I might go to her in the future but because of her inaction and reservation about mens right for an affair gives me a pause; how can I start to make her understand any of this emptional attachment and stuff when she thinks my wife tricked her husband to do something he did not want to do. No, you have to do this properly. Tell OMW that your wife and her husband are having a full blown physical affair. Your wife is planning to steal him from her. That would be the end of the love and vacations. You want to fight for your marriage and you believe she wants to fight for hers. For that to happen, she needs to help you snoop. Walk her through what she has to do; spyware, tracker, voice recorder. Tell her to be sure her husband has no clue. This is what Dr Harley told you to do. He has many, many years of experience in these matters.
3 adult children
Divorced - he was a serial adulterer
Now remarried, thank you MB
(formerly lied_to_again)
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Hey there Living_well;
she knew about the affair, yet did nothing because this is normal expectation from her husband; I do not mean to be harsh. I am trying to trying to help. I am very surprised by this statement. I think some selfreflection is important. You have not done a full exposure (the most imoortant weapon to kill the affair) yet you blame her and expect her to even act. You have the power on what you can do and control but you are not using it. Why spend energy on blaming OMW. Is this shifting the blame? You did not even know what she thinks deep inside. Maybe she does not care what he does, lives with it or wishes she could leave him, etc. Just remember the person who can help you the most is yourself not her. It is hard to help someone who does not want to be helped. If you expose she could even help you because she will see how serous you are. Right now she sees you different and probably does not respect you at all because you have not done What sonecmay call a man or brave. word. Sorry people to use the word man. I can't find a better word.
BH(me)-48 WW-43
Seperated
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Hey there guys;
I blame her because during critical investigation I told her that most of the action is happening in her Minivan and we should put a VAR recorder; she stopped me on that instance And told me that her husband would throw her out of house if he found out that she ratted him out;
Maybe she did something being unfaithful herself because my wife keeps telling me that she is not as innocent as she looks. It seems OM and my wife shared lots of secrets between them that should not have happened; my wife on many instance kept comparing herself to OMW and it seemed like she knew details about their marriage that I was not aware about.
Overall, I will keep checking on my wife to make sure No contact is mainatained with OM because it seems all this things she did was because I never stopped her and she felt normal talking and meeting him; there will be no future incentives or happy memories between our families; my wife knows this as truth going forward. So, OM family name is never mention around me anymore, this is a concept to get around but I will destroy every sign of OM from our life and our son will never meet him again.
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Canadien74 I am not an expert here. The others on this forum are experts. I am glad that you are able to see that OMW is not doing anything about the affair. So, you are on your own meaning you are the only one who can do it. You know she has her reasons which you do not know or fully understand. If you do a full exposure she will probably thank you in her mind or verbally. She may even look at you as a hero who saved her life. And she may come full circle to be on your side. Remember full exposure means everyone will know (and this what you want to happen). This changes everything. All these friends you have described will have to start thinking about their behaviors. Their wives should know about this affair too. At the moment these friends keep doing and encouraging each other because no one has ever exposed one of them, some or all. No accountability. That is why everyone here keeps telling you to fully expose. Overall, I will keep checking on my wife to make sure No contact is mainatained with OM because it seems all this things she did was because I never stopped her and she felt normal talking and meeting him; there will be no future incentives or happy memories between our families; my wife knows this as truth going forward. So, OM family name is never mention around me anymore, this is a concept to get around but I will destroy every sign of OM from our life and our son will never meet him again. Unfortunately no matter what you do, this is not going to work without you doing a full exposure. If you think it is working know that it is temporarily. You are up for another big and worse shock event of your life. We do not know what it is but what we know is that this is going to end bad. Also consider OM and WW leaving you and OMW one day. You will not have children of your own. You will grow old alone. You have to map out your future and you are not doing it. OM has a plan. WW has a plan. OMW has a plan. You do not. If you think you have one you are failing to see that you do not have it. Moving on, whatever you do, keep this in mind. Experts here are charting a plan for you but you have your own unproven way which you think is a plan. it looks like some experts have given up on you. Take that as a not a good sign on your end. I also advise that you take a quiet hour and reread your thread carefully and slowly. because I never stopped her and she felt normal talking and meeting him; Know and remember that it is not you as a physical being that will stop her. It is full exposure. She can easily see this man if she really wants to - when the world opens up after covid you will not be with her all the time. She will sneak out from work. Also think what some experts told you. You could start a new life. You do not have children with her. I think this is going to freak her out and you do not need to worry. It will sink in deep for ther if you leave. Reality. You will be totally out of the picture. Still do full exposure if you leave. It will make it harder for OM and WW to continue the affair. Why don't you want to leave her by the way?
BH(me)-48 WW-43
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Hello there guys;
How do you guys the tackle the question of having friends in my situation? My wife keeps saying that I have no friends and live a very lonely life and that is affecting her negatively.
The thing is I live with my parents and brother family; and I have things I can do myself; Yet, my wife keeps insisting that you need like minded friends who are positive and fun to be around; She is not fond of our family.
The question I have is as I have observed her previous friendships have turned into emotional; Am I at fault for not having any friends or pursuing new friendships; and How would I protect myself from future betrayal if I were to start a new friendship?
I went into the most safe friendship with the OM thinking that we are extended family and our cultural values would protect me from Betrayal; Yet, I was faced with a very difficult situation to say the least; Now, taking that into consideration are any close friendships safe for marriage? and how critical are they for healthy marriage?
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