Hi, Blackhawk, thanks so much for your response. I couldn’t agree with you more in avoiding all love busters and to this point I’ve been able to do so. Our primary method of communication is via text with the exception as to when we see each other at child pick ups and drop offs. Even then, there is just not much communication although I try to open it up by making small talk i.e. asking how she’s doing, how her day was, etc. but that just seems to very short stated answers. I’ve tried my best (and will keep trying) to demonstrate my love and care for her. But trying to do so without being overly pushy. It seems to be a fine line to walk on.

I have our son this weekend and was contemplating as to asking my wife if she would like to go to church with us on Sunday morning. Does anyone feel as to whether that would be a good or bad idea? Any ideas as to how I may facilitate a conversation or meet up with her?

Blackhawk, I took your advice and called (left a message) and emailed Marriage Builders to inquire on setting a coaching appointment with Steve Hartley. I have not yet written into the daily radio so but is that something I should do or first try the coaching route with Steve?

As for the PI....I would rather not discuss that topic on a public forum but would be happy to discuss in private.

The radio show and Dr. Harley's subsequent advice is free if they answer your question on the show. You could be a caller or if you are not comfortable with that they could address your problem on the show in a segment instead. His advice is generally short and to the point. He has so much experience dealing with these problems that he can often get to the crux of your issue very quickly. If you listen to the program a couple of days then you can better understand the format and how Dr. Harley addresses questions. The radio show generally has a new show about 3 days per week, and the other days they replay an older show.

Steve Harley is a marriage coach. His is a paid service. His advice and approach will be tailored to your specific situation and coaching sessions are an hour. He will address questions and give you strategic advice on your situation. You can also check out the coaching center page on this website. You could discuss the PI issue privately with Steve.

I would choose one approach to start.

On asking your wife out to church with you and the kids, I don't think it would hurt to try, but be ready for her to say no and then don't push it. Say something like, "Ok, if you change your mind before the service, just let me know!" and then drop it. I can almost guarantee she will turn you down. Even if she is not having an affair, she is still trying to separate further from you emotionally. But you can plant the seed and keep trying whenever you go to church. Maybe after a few weeks or months she will change her mind, maybe not. You can invite her nonchalantly to join you and your son in any family activity. But do not press her if she says no, which you should expect will be her answer. Do not put pressure on her to say yes to any invitation!

Blackhawk - I can’t thank you enough for the honest but positive feedback. I’m not here to say I’m going to win her back but I’m sure not going to go down without trying. That’s all I want to do is put forth a true and honest effort. I’m confused as to how best to go about doing that but you’re bringing serious clarity to the confusion thus far....so THANK YOU! I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

We didn’t end up making it to church this morning and the question wasn’t asked as I was still apprehensive as to how to go about asking and if I should. Now that I have your perspective, I feel better about it. I like the idea of inviting her and including her not only in church but in any family activity. But duly noted - I will not press. If she says no she says no and I can then continue to ask another time down the road. I totally get what you’re saying - no pressure to be put on her. Sometimes I’m timid just thinking about asking her to do something such as go to church with us may be applying pressure but really it’s just asking a question, the pressure would come afterwards if I kept on in which I will not. Thanks again for these wonderful tips!!

Let me ask you your opinion here: what are your thoughts about me asking her if she’d be open to attending 3-4 couples therapy or marriage coaching sessions - therapist or coach of her choice l. I will pay the bill(s)....this for the sake of our sweet son and potential future as a family. Thoughts?

Dr. Harley via the radio show or Steve Harley (via marriage coaching) can give you advice on how to try and persuade your wife to join you in trying to rebuild your marriage via marriage counseling. If you have decided to use one of these approaches, I suggest to ask them directly how best to persuade her. In the meantime, read some of the Q & A columns and read all of the articles. You may find a situation similar to your own. Educate yourself with all of the free resources this site has to offer.

That being said, some things to keep in mind:

1. She will probably say no if you try and persuade her to join you in marriage counseling. But that is not the end of the world. You will plant the seed and she may reconsider later if your plan A efforts hit the mark over time. Plan A shows your spouse that you can meet their needs and that if they rejoin you in the marriage then the marriage can be better than before, will be a romantic caring marriage, and a marriage that makes you both truly happy. She does not believe that is possible right now. She rejects it out of hand, hence the divorce proceedings and not responding to your overtures.

2. If she is having affair - I hate to remind you, but most of us responding to your thread believe this is quite possible and even probable - then she will by default say no, as she will be in something here called 'the fog.' The 'fog' means the irrational emotions that are driving the affair and rationalizing the affair in her mind. Again though, once the affair is broken up (by exposure) or dies a natural death over time, she may become more receptive as the affair fog lifts. If she is having an affair, the exposure of the affair is your most powerful weapon to break through the fog and break up the affair. If you do find out she is having an affair, do nothing yet!! Come here and posters will advise you on the steps to take. There is a methodical approach to this that is powerful if used correctly.

3. On marriage counselors, Dr. Harley does not hold a high opinion of many marriage counselors. The goal of the counselor should be to save the marriage and for you and your spouse to be in love again. That may or may not be the case with any counselor. There are many horror stories on the forum of counselors focusing on improving communication or making the dissolution of the marriage smooth and conflict free instead of working on saving the marriage. You should treat any counselor with trepidation. That being said, there are of course good counselors out there, but you need to be really picky. Working with Steve Harley is a great alternative. You and your wife BOTH working with Steve Harley would be even better.

4. On your Plan A, what has your wife complained about in the past? Was it neglect? You being judgmental or disrespectful? Independent behavior? Angry outbursts? Have you read Dr. Harley's books and do you know what love-busters are? You have got to totally remove love-busters from your plan A. This is hard to do, especially going through a divorce proceeding. Your plan A will also prove to your wife you have changed and can become the marriage partner she always wanted. That takes time - sometimes a lot of time - and it takes much effort from you. With you and your wife living in separate locations, it will take even longer.

That last point brought another quick question to my mind that is still unclear. Why did you moveout of the family home? Did she ask you to or was it part of a legal separation agreement? I realize she owned it earlier, but regardless it became marital property and you had/have a right to live there too. Your moving out has made your situation significantly harder.

Letting her choose a marriage therapist, or even if both of you choose a standard marriage or couples therapist, is one of the worse things you can do.

Couples and marriage therapists rarely have the goal of restoring the marriage by building romantic love. Their goal tends to be to first, facilitate "communication" so that each spouse clearly understands what the other is saying. Second, they don't want to change an outcome: they want to help the spouses to treat each other with consideration and respect. Therefore, if one spouse wants a divorce and is determined to get that, the therapist won't try to change their mind but will try to get both spouses to have a friendly divorce.

If you allow your wife to choose a therapist, she will find one that accepts her view that the marriage is hurtful to her and is beyond repair. You will find yourself being "therapised" right into signing the divorce papers.

Dr Harley is the only coach that we know whose goal is to create and build romantic love, so that the marriage is restored. He will take your wife's complaints very seriously, and work with you both to end the offending behaviour, rather than to end the marriage. He will encourage you to meet each other's emotional needs, especially the intimate ones.

The only coaching we recommend you do is with Steve Harley (paid) or better yet, for free with Dr Harley. He will not discuss your case on the radio show at all if you don't want him to. He will coach you for free via email. The very best thing you can do is write to him, and he will suggest ways of getting your wife to join in.

Please read Beware of Bad Counselors

PMs are disabled on Marriage Builders. This is an anonymous forum so as long as you don’t release personal information (which isn’t allowed on MB) you should be totally fine.

Blackhawk, again, thank you for the insight. I wept this evening in having to return my son. While he’s only 2, he was very upset and didn’t want to leave. It breaks my heart to see the sadness in him.

There is no doubt that I need to do more reading on this website and will do so in my off time. I have an email into Steve Harley and I will also touch base via email with Dr. Harley.

I moved out of the family home as per court order.

Great info, SugarCane. I’m truly humbled by everyone’s insight and support. I can 100% see what you’re saying in regards to marriage therapy/counseling - makes sense.

I will email Dr. Harley tonight.

It seems/feels that every time I build up hope within myself that there is opportunity for a positive outcome, my wife’s short answers and cold demeanor set me back. But I can’t give up hope right???

Thanks again for your advice - it sincerely means the world to me!

Thanks for all the info, Brian!