Hi,

I am writing to forum so I can learn to repair my marriage. My wife and I have been arguing and bickering over the past couple years. A couple of weeks of ago she approached me about a separation, I was in shock. I knew we had issues and I felt that they would be resolved once I retire and have a career change. We are currently in counseling. It turns out I have a quarrelsome and nagging wife as the article states. I am changing my ways but I keep getting arguments from her when I plan on doing things to help her. What should I do? Should I keep doing what I am doing and ignore her negative comments? I think the stress of the pandemic lock-down and our difficulties of conceiving children are some factors. I have also been slacking on the responsibilities around the house and recently recovered from some depression issues. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

Welcome back, Darkguy. Could you please provide more details?

What have you been arguing and bickering about?

Is bickering the issue that took you to counselling? What suggestions has your counsellor made? Are they working? (I take it they are not, since your wife wants to separate.)

What arguments do you get from her about your plans to change your ways? What plans do you mean? Do you discuss these with her? Why doesn't she like them?

Did you manage to have children despite your problems?

Have you sought treatment for your depression?

You were divorced in 2016. When did you remarry? How did things go wrong so quickly?

Turns out she was having an affair. I found out about it looking at her phone in January. I blew up at her, which was wrong. I’m in counseling for my anger now. She claims to broke off the affair and said it wasn’t physical. I don’t believe her, now she argues with me about everything, I think she pushing me away to make room for the other guy. I listen to the podcasts every day and emailed Dr. Harley in the past, I think she’s in the fog. I’m active duty military set to retire this year. She’s a full time student, she met the guy there. I asked her to scale back on school as we don’t have time to spend together. She went on a rant about how I put my job over her. I tried to explain how my job is different from her going to college, she want having it. I extend date ideas to her but she’s always busy. She claims I don’t support her even though I’m the breadwinner. I’m at a lost on what to do. We didn’t have any kids as she wanted to stop treatment. She did fill out a emotional needs questionnaire, I used that to adjust my actions but it isn’t working. I feel there is zero effort on her part. Any help would be appreciated.

You didn't respond to the help I tried to give the last time you were here. It would be courteous of you to at least acknowledge the replies you get. You simply posted here once and abandoned the thread.

I’m sorry.

You were divorced in 2016.
When did you remarry? I remarried in 2017. My divorce was started in 2012 and finalized in 2016.

How did things go wrong so quickly? I’m not sure. She believes in soulmates and that relationships should be effortless. I’m the opposite.

I hope the post is easy to read as I am using my phone.

Are you saying your NOW wife was having an affair in January of 2022?

Yes. I called the guy and I think I scared him off. Or it just went underground.

Please ask the MODS to move this to Surviving an Affair.

Good job on confronting the OM. Is he married?

You need to make sure this affair has ended. Have you read Dr. Harley’s plan to recover from an affair?

Have you exposed the affair? Who is the OM? How did they carry on the affair?

Are you deployed or at home each night?

Do you have spyware on her devices? How did you find out about the affair?

It would be good if you could post from a proper keyboard, so that you can say more and we can have a proper dialogue with you. Your one-line answers are not helping us to understand the situation. You can't hope to get proper advice if you give such scant information.

As well as the answers to Brain Hurts' questions, I would like to know more about your wife. How old is she? Has she been married before? Did she bring children to your marriage?

I'm just puzzled about how she came to marry you in 2017, and by 2019 you are bickering all the time - and it turns out to be an affair. How did things go wrong so fast? And having been divorced quite recently, why weren't you more cautious about remarrying so quickly?

You suspect that she believes in soulmates, and that when the marriage did not feel like that, she didn't want to work at it. Why would she think like that - is she very young and naïve? (You say she is a student.) If so, why did she marry you when you were fresh off a divorce and had a child? You had full custody of your son: how did she get on with the blended family situation - and how did you?

You might be thinking that the answer to those questions does not matter, because Dr Harley leaves the past in the past and focuses on the present. However, I'm trying to find out how serious she ever was about marriage, especially given her attitude towards you today. After an affair in a short marriage without children, Dr Harley often recommends calling it a day and moving on. In a short marriage without kids, where she's already found someone else and is loyal to him, and where she puts "zero effort" into restoring her marriage and does not seem concerned about the hurt she's caused you, what is the point? Dr Harley would ask this.

That she doesn't want to have kids with you any more is a very bad sign of how she feels about you now.

So please try and give us a fuller picture of your marriage.

Good job on confronting the OM. Is he married? No.

You need to make sure this affair has ended. Have you read Dr. Harley’s plan to recover from an affair? Yes but I’m not sure of how to find out if it ended. Asking her seems unlikely.

Have you exposed the affair? Who is the OM? How did they carry on the affair? Yes my father and her mother knows. I talked to our son about it as well. My dad suggested counseling. He really likes her, her mother doesn’t want to see us divorce. Her mother been married a lot and uses men for money a lot.

Are you deployed or at home each night? I don’t deploy home everyday.

Do you have spyware on her devices? How did you find out about the affair? No spyware. We have each other’s passwords and free access to each other’s phones. I was looking through her phone at Snapchat and found the messages.

She was 24 when we married. We moved from her hometown to where we are due to my military career. Her affair started in 2021 august and ended in 2022 January when I found out. I have a son from my previous marriage she doesn’t have kids. Don’t know why I wasn’t more cautious, I thought I was but here we are. Her main complaints were how she had to do housework without my support. She wasn’t in school or working at the time. She was diagnosed with ADHD, once she was put on medication for it the arguments went away. She was also upset over our lack of dating. I believed I remedied that but I guess I was wrong. She is an awesome mother. Our son looks to as his mother as his biological mother is absent. We had some issues with his behavior but nothing out of the ordinary, she loves being a mother.

She wants to have kids with me, she stated this the other day but the process was taking an emotional toll on her. We had four miscarriages. I let her know that I feel bad about it and responsible.

I appreciate everyone's help. I hope I have answered the questions you all had. We haven't sat down and talked about just compensation for the affair. Should I do this in person or via email? If she gets upset about it, is it safe to assume that the affair is still going on? I am addressing the concerns she put on the questionnaire. I am losing weight, helping out around the house, drop most of my responsibilities at my job as I am retiring. We have scheduled a date for this Saturday and been dating regularly for the past three months. I am in counseling for my anger as I did blow up on her about the affair upon discovery. Our sex life is lacking and every time I see her on her phone, I get triggered. Should I let her know this?

What happened with the separation last year?

This is terribly distressing, and I'm very sorry to hear it.

It didn’t go through. I thought I righted the ship and it was avoided.

You had a long thread running when your first wife had an affair. I'm surprised that after all the time people spent coaching you, you have no idea how to find out whether they are still in contact.

You said you have her password, and easy access to her phone. The answer is to install spyware on it and not to tell her you have done that. If she suspects that you are monitoring her, she will just go underground.

Have you tried reading your old thread to remind yourself of the advice you received?

Read through my old thread. I’m currently re reading Surviving Affair. I encouraged my WW to as well. The affair is over, been snooping and installed the spyware. Haven’t seen anything yet. Thanks for your advice, I will post anything that happens from here on.

Did she write a no contact letter?

Can you tell us what you’ve done from this list?

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

All those are complete, we are currently working on spending more time together. She filled out a emotional needs questionnaire as well. I put her response below any input would be appreciated.

1a. 6 Great need for affection
- Three times a week
- Neither happy nor unhappy
- Neither happy nor unhappy
1b. 0
- No
- No
- Help with problems, courtesies, planning
I need a lot of help around the house and planning events that work around my schedule. Be understanding of my time and space.
2a. 5
- 1-2 times a week
- Unhappy to engage in sexual fulfillment
2b. -1
- No
- No
- A Understand each other sexual response
Planning and communication turn me on; unfortunately, you don't do either. You lack foreplay. Foreplay for me is being adventurous and hanging out with me or trying new things.
3a. 5
- Three times a week
- Somewhat Happy
- Neither happy nor unhappy
3b. -3
- No
- Use conversation to get to know, develop an interest in favorite topics, avoid angry outbursts, avoid dwelling on mistakes, time of day for discussion, give undivided attention.
I need conversation because that's the number one thing that attracted me to you. Knowing that I can't have a pleasant or detailed discussion about our values and needs makes me feel that you don't have my attention. I enjoy talking about how I can please you or sending you freaky messages, but I don't know. I enjoy having someone on the same level of sexual desires as me and hope to discuss them in person.
4a. 6
- 2 – 3 a week
- D Unhappy
- D Happy not to engage in reactional companionship

4b. -3
- No
- No
- A & B
I would like us to have mutual hobbies to feel like friends hanging out. Also, they helped and engaged in planning activities with me and trying new hobbies.
5a. 6
- C
- A
5b. -3
- A, C, D
I need you to share plans even if it works; knowing your schedule can help plan activities. I hated when you pressured me to hang out with you, and you didn't see how tired I was. When you don't understand my schedule, I feel left out. I also hate when you get mad about not hanging out places, and then the next day you want to do something not know I have a crazy schedule (it's beyond frustrating)
6a. 4
- B
- C
6b. 0
- Physical hygiene, Fragrance, physical fitness, and weight
I'm happy when I know you are physically working out or trying to improve your physical appearance. I hate to say the past few years, but it seems like you don't care anymore; there's the time when you smell terrible, and I feel like you can care less. I love Fragrance and don't have any fragrances that remind me of you. Your appearance can be embarrassing sometimes because it seems as if you let yourself go. I'm always trying to impress a person who sometimes doesn't care about his appearance.
7a. 6
- C
- A
- C
7b. 0
- Family budget, work travel, choice of career
I feel like I have to rely on you for financial support. Sometimes I feel trapped when I know that I'm financially relying on someone who can cut me off at any minute. I want us to understand how to budget together, I feel that you spend money how you want to, and I'm the accountant managing the money. It is tough when you don't have support and large purchases.
8a. 6
- A
- A
- B
8b. -1
- Household maintenance, housing cleaning, household shopping, childcare, family calendar.
I need all the support, just having the time when I come from a 12-hour day at school, the last thing I want to do is clean. It warms my heart when I can go home to clean the house. Family calendars help feel involved and know what is happening next. I love our home; most of the damage is from you, and nobody ever cleans it up but me. I hate screaming and telling grow people to clean up. But look at me, that's what I'm doing now smh
9a. 6
- A
- D
9b. -1
- Family Time 2 – 5 hours weekly
- B
- C
- Family Outing 2 month
- E
Having family commitment is very important for me to stay organized and happy. It makes us form a connection with our family. It also brings us closer as family,
10a. 6
- Everyday
- A
- C
10b. 2
- No
- Yes
- A, B, C, n D (going on planned dates)
I believe that you admire me more than anyone I know. I will love that if you put want you to admire by into physical actions.

Admiration
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Affection
Family Commitment
Domestic Support
Sexual Fulfillment
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support

She has told you a number of very valuable things. Some of them are rather shocking to me, because it appears that you don't have a problem doing things that are repulsive to her (" there's the time when you smell terrible, and I feel like you can care less"). If that's true (that you can care less about personal hygiene or anything else on her list), what kind of message do you think that has been sending to her all these years? Do you think it's a message of love? But isn't love the message that you want to send?

Do you want her just to stay with you and not break up the marriage, or do you want her to be in love with you? If the latter, what are you going to do to achieve that state?

Rather than asking for us to walk you through her answers, why don't you work them through and tell us what you intend to do, today, about her desires. You have long struck me as being a bit lazy, coming here to be told what to do (and in fact not coming here nearly often enough) when you have the same access to materials, including your old thread, that we do, and should have read enough, and listened to the radio show enough by now, to know what actions produce positive results.

Start with the first thing on the list.

"- Help with problems, courtesies, planning
I need a lot of help around the house and planning events that work around my schedule. Be understanding of my time and space."

What specifically can you do here?

I note that she mentions help round the house both here and when talking about household maintenance. It's obviously very important to her and she feels let down by your lack of care about how exhausted she is. I'm sure that this questionnaire isn't the first time that you've heard this from her. Why has this been going on so long during your marriage, and what can you do about it today?

I fixed this problems prior to the affair. She wants a divorce. I told her I don’t and I won’t initiate it that she can. She’s probably having another affair.

Are you going to confirm if she’s having an affair? If she is having an affair, will you divorce her?

I haven’t found anything other than she back on the app she used before and won’t let me see her phone. Yea I think I’m done, at least that’s what I feel about it right now. She’s packing her stuff and moving out. Think I may need to see a lawyer. She was spouting all this talk about me being controlling and gaslighting her.

Make sure you protect yourself. Have a recorder running when you are communicating with her and document EVERYTHING.

Where is she moving to?

Recorder is on me. I’m not sure, she blew up on me via text message. Her mom called her and expressed support for our marriage. She claims she’s filing for divorce in two weeks. Which makes no sense has she will be going to France for a study abroad program. I spoke with a lawyer and will pay the retainer next week. She is now in the guest room while I’m in the marital bed. Today I’m working with our son to clean the house and get some tacos.

Tacos were good, my and I had a talk about the current events. Sad day in Texas. I exposed WW affair to our family and friends, she got mad and texted me a long fog filled message. She stated she hates me and that she had the affair and in the same paragraph stated it was over, blah blah blah. Usual WW stuff. I spoke with a lawyer today, he stated I can get her out of the house because I have a son and we do not share any children together. After reading the newly betrayed spouse thread on the forum, I've decided against this. I want to attempt to save my marriage. I've decided to Plan A until she actually leaves. I had very limited interaction with her today. She has been shut in the guest room stating she wants a divorce and will file in two weeks. My gut says she is bluffing, and I will call her on it. Unless you fine folks say otherwise, so I am in Plan A. Every time she brings up the idea of divorce, I either change the topic or state that I want a loving marriage between us where all our needs are met. I've been working on myself and started back exercising and lifting weights as the weather is warmer now. I have some questions:

1. She is scheduled to go outside the country for five weeks for college. Do I take her to the airport as we agreed prior to this mess? For what I know OM won't be there.

2. Do I file for divorce, while in Plan A? Should I separate our finances as well? I know the general consensus is to not kick her out of the house.

The initial shock and anger over my situation have subsided. I am ready to fight for my marriage without fail. Thanks for your advice.

Who is the OM? Is he married or have a GF? How did she carry on the affair? Do they work together?

You need to expose the affair on the OM's side. Do you know his parents and/or siblings?

Did any of your family and friends contact her and put pressure on her to end the affair?

Also, have you thought about contacting Dr. Harley?

I thought about this. Will get on it ASAP.

WW is talking about joking the military. We talked about it before I discovered the affair. I am set to retire this fall from the military myself. Typing an email to Dr. Harley now. I don’t think my odds of saving my marriage are in my favor at this point. Worked out at the local gym with some friends of mind. Was a good diversion. Any ideas on how to engage her for a Plan A? She’s given me the silent treatment.

And what is your plan to be able to do Plan A while she is away for 5 weeks?

Darkguy, usually there is a history of good points in the marriage, not least of which might be that the BH is the father of the kids. A WW can be compelled to think about the best interests of her children before breaking up their family.

You're not in that position with your very sad history of loss, about which I am very sorry. This must have been devastating for you both.

What good points about your marriage can you build upon to win your wife back?

Plan on talking to her via email, text and phone calls. If she accepts them, right now she's cut me off emotionally. I cook dinner she won't eat it; I try to engage in small talk, and she tells me to leave her alone. I feel really hopeless about the whole thing. I want her to be in love with me again but it's not looking too good.

One of the good points of our marriage is how she and her family accept my son. She is a really good mother to him before all this. We have the same values and were meeting each other needs. We would spend about 30 hours a week together. When we had the miscarriages, we helped and healed each other through the pain of loss as well. She is my best friend and I never thought this would be the state of our marriage. I learned from my past marriage and corrected those issues. After reading Surviving the Affair (for the 6th time) again I see the reason for this is her horrible boundaries. I am constantly hit on by women at my job, I would tell her about it and how I shut it down. This wasn't reciprocated and led to this. This feels like my last marriage all over again but worse.

She is in a deep fog and looking for a way out of the marriage despite my efforts and those around us. I know my WW and if she wants something she will move hell and high water to get it. It's one of the qualities that attracted me to her to begin with. Unfortunately, it might be the downfall of our marriage. I am Plan Aing my butt off and doing what she will allow me to do. As you may have read in the message, she sent me and what she spouted out to me on Sunday was that she doesn't believe I care for her. She also hit me with the I love you, but I am not in love with you line. I know it's an affair and I know how it will end for her. In the end all I can do is Plan A and control me. Any advice on saving our union is and will be greatly appreciated.

On another note, she is medically unfit to join the Air Force due to some medical issues she has. I have a VAR on me and another in the car she drives. I have also retained a lawyer for my sanity and protection. DS is upset with her and isn't interacting with her at all. Should I push him to talk to her and interact? Or leave it be. She stated that we (son and I) don't want her here and it would be better if she left. More fog talk, I haven't emailed Dr. Harley yet. I plan on doing that after this post.

I emailed Dr. Harley. Interacted with her for a little. We talked about current events, it was short. Asked her if she would like a sandwich as I am making some for dinner she said no. I asked her what she would be eating for dinner and she said I don’t know. She always forgets to eat when she’s stressed. She chuckled at one of my jokes and quickly hid it. This is the worse, feeling really hopeless about my marriage right now.

That's good that you emailed Dr. Harley. Please let us know what he says.

I was reading back through your thread. What have you done to change the things that she complained about? How are you making progress on that? When does she leave?

That's not really the kind of thing I meant. That is a good point to you, but I'm looking for the things about you that made her happy.

I know she was good to your son, but don't believe she married you for your son. If she were to describe it, what would she say she loved about being married to you?

I've lost about 15lbs so far and switched up my cologne that I wear. She sent that to me after the initial discovery of the affair back in January. I have been planning dates, but she hasn't been going on them as she was busy with school. We recently went out of town as I had a business trip and took DS and WW with me. She enjoyed it as well as DD. I've been helping out more at the house. I walk the dog, clean the bathroom do the dishes and cook four times out of the week. I've been spending more time with DS as well. I set aside about two hours of my day to speak with her in regard to IC. She was very receptive of it. We made a family calendar that we put all of our appointments on. We also sat down and did a budget together. I've bought new clothes as I lose weight and my old ones are sort of baggy. Everything was going well until the second discovery of contact with OM.

Sorry SugarCane, my brain is elsewhere. She loved the fact that I had a steady income and ambition. Right now, I am retiring from the military and pursuing my RN degree. Eventually I would like to be a Nurse practitioner. We talked A LOT and held like interests and values. Our family dynamic outside our immediate family were similar as well. We both are nerds and enjoy anime and comic books. She liked the fact that we traveled and spent a lot of time outside of the city we lived in. She loves to be admired as well, when we met, she was struggling in college, and I helped her out when I could. She also loved my intelligence; it was a huge turn on for her. She stated on numerous occasions of how nice I am and the fact I give her massages. She is more of an introvert, and I am an extrovert to some extent. I was able to get her to come out of her shell in public places has she had anxiety issues. We had each other's phone passwords and were open and honest with each other. We freely spoke of our past relationships and what issues we had in them. She also liked video games and loved watching me play them. We are also both cinephiles and love movies. I also had her back and was her biggest cheerleader.

Found out there’s another OM not the one I originally thought. She also has an affair phone. Second OM is out of town while first is in town. I’m planning on meeting with the first one after the holiday. Trying to get information on the second. Seems WS is planning on meeting him while she’s overseas. She wants to look through his phone to make sure he isn’t lying to her and isn’t cheating 😑. I’m not funding any affairs so I moved all the money to another account.

Made some burgers for National Burger day. WW didn’t want any. She’s holed up in the guest room watching videos about relationships. Trying to justify her actions I guess. Went on a bike ride with DS. Enjoyed myself and kept my cool on this discovery.

I'm so sorry to hear this.

So how many affairs (that you know of) has this been since the start of the marriage? Is it 3?

Two, one I initially found out about and this ongoing one.

Thanks to everyone that responded. I really appreciate your advice and support.

How did you find out about this second affair and the affair phone?

How old is your wife, and how old are you?

I’m sorry you found this out. How did you find out?

Snooping. As any good spouse does. Don’t want to reveal methods.

I’m 41 and she’s 29. I have my ways, rather not say here.

So with such a short marriage and she’s had multiple affairs no one would blame you to divorce her. What are you going to do?

She was 24 and probably at her most desirable, and she married an older man with a kid. Within 2 years she has an affair, and then another.

I don't know that she was ever as invested in this marriage as you were. She certainly seems to have fallen out of love quickly. I don't really see what there is to keep her there now, after 2 affairs.

I’m going to Plan A as I was told by Dr. Harley and hope for the best. Continue to snoop for information for the divorce proceedings. That’s all I can do. I meet some of her complaints that she allows. You all are probably right about her intentions. I plan on filing for divorce when she leaves.

I’m better news had a fun karaoke party with DS. We sung all our fave songs while WW sat miserable in the guest room. She came out one time to get her clothes. Looked miserable and upset. Maybe she felt left out? I invited and she said no.

When did Dr Harley say this? Of course, Plan A is his standard advice for a man during an affair, if he wants to save his marriage. However, Dr Harley also takes into account the broader context of the marriage, and gives his opinion of the likelihood of success. Did he give you an opinion on that?

Regular posters like to read as much as his advice as we can, so that we can advise other people in similar situations. Would you mind telling us what you wrote, and showing us his reply? We would be grateful.

From 24APR21



ME: WS,

I am shocked and saddened by the events last night. I feel hurt and disrespected. I would like a marriage were we could both air our complaints without shouting, disrespect and demands. In order to fix this, we both need to refrain from these actions. I apologize for anything I did that contributed to this. I should not feel fear when I let you know what complaints I have with our relationship. I will no longer tolerate the disrespect, selfishness or demands. I also expect the same from you; together we can get past this and improve both our lives and mental wellbeing. Us fighting doesn't solve anything, it just leaves me sad and hurt. I attached an article (please read) that may explain what we are going through, I would like to use this program to repair the damage to our marriage. I cannot do it alone as it takes both of us.


Love,
Me


WS: I enjoy receiving random emails or love emails, even though they're not necessarily happy emails. Anyways, I read the attachment article. I have no idea what you want me to do. I feel misunderstood, confessed, lonely, and a failure right now. I have no idea who you are, and what you want out of this relationship. I feel misunderstood when I express my feeling; or not taking seriously. I'm confessed because I try to de-escalate the situation. It makes me feel like I'm failing because I'm walking away from a problem I can't fix. I'm on medicine; I go to two different therapy; I'm in a club where I can meet people. I feel like I'm doing so much change that it's not doing anything. I don't know what to do. If my personality is too much, then I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm trying, but it's not fast enough for you. Overall, I like the article, but maybe it's time for you to seek counseling for yourself. I can't help our relationship if you have a personal problem that may be affecting you. What we have is toxic; I believe nobody deserves to be in a toxic relationship.


P.S. I love you, but I'm falling out of love with you.


ME: My question is what actions should I take? I am confused and frustrated, she hasn't talked to me since and I fear we may be getting divorced. We are currently in marriage counseling. Thanks in advance for your help.



DR.: You will have a repeat of that experience again in the future, so think carefully about how you would handle it in the future. Your wife gets upset because things are getting chaotic, and she expects you to calm things (and her) down. But instead, she gets even more upset as things are not calming down through no fault of yours. At that point you have to make choices to make your situation simpler and more manageable. If you had to do it again, what would you do differently? Wait for children to arrive! Chaos will always be just around the corner. Once you have thought it through, try to explain to her how you would have handled it differently. Hopefully, she will also see how she contributed to the problem. The major take-away is to never fight with her again. Regardless of what she says to you, don't raise your voice or express any judgment toward her. But at the same time, you don't have to do everything she tells you to do.



From 24JAN22


Good Morning,


I regret what I did, and I feel like a failure to live. I know it is a mixture of feeling depressed and ashamed by my action. I wish that I could have more support from others and comfort. I feel like I'm always left behind or last to know about things. I also think that I have to fix everything, and sometimes I wish others would take control of the situation. Yes, I am terrified of your emotions; it takes me back to childhood when I was afraid to tell my mom anything because of her reaction. I feel like I am always walking on eggshells; I feel like I'm going to [censored] up or [censored] up something if I dont fix it. It's similar to surgery high stress, but you have to find a way to fix the problem while being understress. I know your hurt, and I apologize for hurting you and everyone else. When I do something wrong, everybody hates me, and I feel like the whole world knows and nobody can look past my mistake.
I dont like this relationship at all right now. I have to fix a problem that I dont know how to fix. This relationship has made me so weak and tired because of all the physical and mental work I put in. I was depressed this morning because I had a semi-free day yesterday; I knew today would be crazy. Yesterday I ended up doing everything that I wish I had help doing, like cleaning, walking the dog, taking DS to school, making appointments, grocery shopping, work, and doing school work. But I wanted to enjoy a day where I dont have to do any of that stuff. I believe that a relationship should be a bonus, not a problem. This is a problem, where not satisfied and I'm not happy. I can't keep feeling like this and waiting for you to fix the problem, I've been waiting and waiting, and I get the results. I'm tired of planning; I'm tired of feeling alone, I'm tired of pretending like deep love each other when you dont satisfy me anymore, and I dont satisfy you anymore. Why keep trying if the things I ask for you dont want to do. All I'm looking for is someone who can engage, plan, and explore with, and we dont do that without me saying something. If you can't give me what I want, how can I help you with your needs? I thought my needs were simple, but I guess I'm too adventurous for my relationship. I feel like your stopping me from my passion for being adventurous. What you said on 21st still haunt me because you can quickly feel comfortable kicking me and making me feel like a horrible person. I lost a lot of respect for you, and our home is now your home because I dont feel welcome or wanted there.
I dont have faith in this relationship simply because you're just now working on it, and I gave up months ago. Hoping that you will plan more activities with me, hoping that we will talk about our feelings more, hoping that we will find hobbies together, and hoping that we fall in love again. I kept getting nothing but anger or being called sensitive. What I learned in the relationship is that you fooled me while we were in Columbus. You dont listen to me, stop talking to me, stop comforting me, and stop sharing your feelings with me. I love you, and I want you to be happy and loved by someone who enjoys you for you.


Thanks Kindly,
WW


DR: Your wife's email reflects a person who is looking for an escape. Your anger is definitely a problem for her, but some of the other things she mentioned should be considered. "I don't have faith in this relationship simply because you're just now working on it, and I gave up months ago. Hoping that you will plan more activities with me, hoping that we will talk about our feelings more, hoping that we will find hobbies together, and hoping that we fall in love again. I kept getting nothing but anger or being called sensitive."

Her letter reflects a woman who is stuck, but isn't considering a reboot of her relationship with you. If I were to talk with her she would probably tell me that she is looking for a way out. However, that being said, I would encourage you to never bring up her affair again, avoid being judgmental of her even in small matters, try to do some fun things together (that she would find fun), and try to help her with some of the things that she feels are a burden to her. You have every right to divorce her for what she did, and she probably deserves it. But if you want her to be your wife, you must consider her to be your most valuable treasure, someone that you live for, and will turn your whole life around (especially with being angry and judgmental) to accommodate her reactions to the way you interact with her.

Dr. Harley


The question was answered on 24JAN22 on the podcast. I still want my marriage but I need to file for divorce to protect myself financially. Found out she has pictures of me and DS in the guest room where she is sleeping and a majority of anniversary, birthday, and just because cards as well.

New email from Dr. Harley in regards to my marriage.

Me: Good day,

This past Sunday I found out my wife has been secretly in contact with the other man after I initially found out about it in January. Since then, I have kept my anger in check and been in Plan A. Everything was going great, we went on trips, dates and spent a lot of time together. However, we haven't had sex since the discovery of the affair. We did a no contact letter and followed the checklist from the Surviving Affair book. In March I found out she had reactivated her Snapchat account without telling me. She stated she needed to use if for college and her extracurricular committees that she's in. I told her I was against it and she got angry, instead of fighting her I left and came back. Everything was calm and I explained to her how she shouldn't be on the social media app as it hurts me and the affair could start back up again. She stated she blocked the other man and everything was ok.

Two months later, I am still in Plan A. My needs weren't being met but I made a Herculean effort to meet hers. After some light snooping on her phone, I found out she was contacting him again. She went out to walk the dog and was messaging him and talking to him with video chat. When she returned, I asked her again to please delete the app and social media account because I knew she was talking to him again and how much pain it caused me. She became irate, screaming that she hates it here (our house) how I am emotionally abusive and controlling and how much I must hate women. I asked her to please calm down and lets talk this out rationally without all the emotion and she got louder.

At that time, I left the house to cool off because I was getting mad myself and didn't want to have another angry outburst. I was in the middle of cooking dinner as well. I let her know I will not engage in an argument with her and that I will be leaving and I would return when I felt it was safe. I was gone for about 20-30 minutes, when I got back I finished cooking dinner and our son (she's a stepmom but my son calls her mom as we've been together for almost six years, one dating year and five married). She refused the plate I offered and stated she wanted a divorce. I let her know that I want to work on our marriage and that I demand the affair stops. I also stated that she is more than welcome to start a divorce as I wouldn't. The next morning, I called off of work as I didn't sleep much that night. She moved into the guest room and packed all her clothes and put them in there with her.

I spoke with a lawyer about what my options were. He stated that since both our names were on the house, we would have to sell it. We don't have any kids (had four miscarriages that were less than one month) or any other joint property. He stated I should stay in the house and don't leave unless I am in fear of physical harm. He also stated I should drain the bank accounts and open a new one so she doesn't take all the money. Do I do this? I am torn as this isn't very Plan A like. My Plan A is non-existent as she will not let me meet her needs. She gives me the silent treatment and has been sitting in the guest room since Sunday. I am about to retire from the military in September and my command has allowed me to take leave until then as they are aware of my marital crisis. I exposed the affair to my father, brother and closest friends and on her side, her mom and sister. They are both allies for our marriage.

Tuesday her mother called her and let her know she should stay in our marriage and work on it. This made her livid and she sent me a long text message (please see below). I responded with I don't want her to leave, and we can work together to have a loving and respectful marriage. She stated she will be filing for divorce in two weeks. She recently graduated college and is unemployed. I am the breadwinner and I have supported her financially and mentally through her four years of college.

She is scheduled to go to France for a college study abroad program. She has to fly out of a city that's three hours away. I am supposed to take her, at least that was the original plan. Do I still take her? We have a joint account, and she was to use money from it while she was overseas, do I still allow her access? I do not know much about the other guy other than his first name and phone number. I still want my marriage and wish to work it out but right now I feel hopeless. She was denied entry into the Air Force and is now working on an exit strategy. Thanks for your time and materials regarding marriage, you all are awesome!

1. Do I continue Plan A or transition to Plan B while she's away?
2. Do I keep supporting her financially?
3. Should I take her to the airport for this trip or leave her to figure it out herself?
4. Our son is avoiding her like the plague, do I encourage him to interact with her?



My Wife's message:
I recovered from the affair you didn't recover from the affair. I can't don't anything about that. I don't want anything to do with you. I don't feel safe around you and don't make me happy. I don't know how many times I have to tell you this, you cry and text the whole world and tell everyone I cheated. Instead of talking about how you influence your son to troll your own online you decided to flip the whole issue about me cheating. That's what gaslighting is, instead of me feeling about you and you're doing. You found a way to make it about it to you. You're going down the same path you did with your ex-wife. Instead, she just straight up left, I can see why. You are controlling, a manipulator, and a vocal abuser. You may not think that but I do. If I can't tell you how I feel without you talking about me cheating then I'm done. I knew you were going to do this and you use that to control me. The crazy fact is the only reason I talk to him is to learn how to get his attention. To the point I hate you. You are everything I thought you wouldn't be. I don't want to be here and I don't want to work on our relationship. Whatever I say I will forever be labeled as a cheater. I don't want to be around a group of males who don't have any respect for females. I hope you find someone just like you.



Dr: I read your latest email to Joyce. Joyce and I would be willing to talk with your wife, but I'm not sure she would be willing, nor would it do much good. She has nothing to lose by leaving you (you paid for her education, and now she can get a job to support herself). I've counseled other men whose wives did the same thing and after divorce the husbands thrived while the wives, in spite of being educated, did not do very well for them.

Overcoming anger is a huge benefit to you and any other woman you will eventually have in your life. Anger never solves anything. It only makes the problem more difficult to solve. But telling your wife that you will never divorce her only gives her greater freedom to take advantage of your good will toward her.

To answer your questions:

Get your attorney's advice on all of these questions.

1. Do I continue Plan A or transition to Plan B while she's away?

I think that it's time for plan B.

2. Do I keep supporting her financially?

Ask your attorney how you can avoid supporting her. With her education out of the way, she should be able to support herself.

3. Should I take her to the airport for this trip or leave her to figure it out herself?

Let her figure it out for herself.

4. Our son is avoiding her like the plague, do I encourage him to interact with her?

No. She will no longer be a factor in his life.

Again, if after you go into plan B, she has second thoughts about your marriage, Joyce and I would be happy to talk with her.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley



I will start the divorce and go into Plan B after she leaves.

Thank you for posting all these replies.

I was about to say after I read the first two that Dr Harley was giving you advice with only some of the picture. You did not appear to have told him how young your wife was, nor that you had a child and she had none - in other words, that she is young and free. You also did not know in January that she would have another affair, so he could not advise you with that knowledge.

Now I see that he is in fact advising Plan B when she leaves, and he does not hold out much hope for recovery. That's what I suspected he would say. I'm sorry.

When did he send you this last email?

I sent it last Thursday. I appreciate your condolences. Unfortunately, the hood doctor is right. I plan on doing Plan A and then B when she leaves.

Thank you for sharing what Dr. Harley advised. How soon is she leaving to go out of the country?

When will you be contacting a lawyer? Are you going to go no contact when you’re in Plan B? Are you going to be able to hold to that?

Already talk to the lawyer. I will see her tomorrow. She leaves in June. Coming up soon.

Yes. No contact

WW engaged me with some fogged out relationship talk. I just replied with ok. She sounded sad. DS stayed the night with a family friend. She still in guest room looking pitiful.

Such as what?

Did you listen to her, and make it clear you were listening? Did you make it clear that you care about how she feels? "I just replied with OK" does not sound like it.

How she never loved me and I intentionally hurt her by separating the finances. How I am controlling and abusive. I simply stated ok and brought up current events in the news.

Why do you call this "fogged out"?

Yes, she telling you this while conducting an affair, but that doesn't mean you should automatically dismiss it. In Plan A, you meet the needs she will allow you to meet. If she gives you clues about why she is not happy, you show her that you are listening. If you don't listen, how can you pull her back to the marriage? How can you put things right?

When did you separate the finances? (Sorry, your timeline is hard to follow.)

What does she mean by controlling and abusive?

The things is that you can dismiss her feelings as being "fog" talk, but you can't say that you are in Plan A while you do that. If you want to just give up, by all means do that. You are fully entitled.

I called it fogged out cause she stated I’m controlling because I demanded she end her affair. When she last spoke to me prior to moving into the guest room. I stated that it would make me feel better if she would delete the social media app she is using to have this affair. I separated the finances over the weekend. I consulted with a lawyer prior to doing so. I left money in the account for her to buy food and gas. The rest is in another account. I’ve got proof that she was planning on draining the account prior to leaving. I wouldn’t have any money to care for DS and myself while she was overseas buying designer clothes.

I spoke with MIL today as well. She stated that WW still loves me. We had a long discussion of the timeline of events. When I got home WW was mad about this and called me a liar and controlling. I let her know her mother called me because she told MIL I took all the money. She became irate and said she hated me, I’m a liar, she needs space, how she doesn’t look at my messages (I don’t use social media BTW). I stated she is more than welcome too and I changed the subject. MIL stated she believes me (not holding my breath). MIL said she will call her and take to WW.

Separating the finances was obviously vital - congratulations on protecting yourself and your son. (I just wasn't sure whether this had taken place much earlier, during the times you were arguing.)

Apart from taking necessary protective measures such as that, I'm only urging that you do not give her the impression that you dismiss everything she says. It's a fine line - but yes, there is definitely nothing worth responding to in fog talk.

WW keeps texting DS that she loves him and such. She is still in the house and DS is on a school trip. I have decided to divorce per Dr. Harley's advice. Should I tell her to stop doing this? Or leave it be? I plan on going to Plan B.

When is she leaving for school?

Are you going to be cutting off all contact between your son and her?

When are you filing for divorce?