Alright everyone. Here’s a good one.<P>If you remember my story, my Wife went on a visit the week before she left. She was visiting an old girlfriend she hadn’t seen in 7 years. As a matter of fact, she is the Godmother to our youngest.<P>Don’t know how much my Wife told her (like she was having an affair or not) but she told my Wife to “follow her heart.” Jeez, we all know how much that line is such a bunch o’ bull! Her husband had left her after they were married for 20 years and she was heartbroken. Think she would have made for a little better friend especially after that.<P>I am expecting her to send at least a card for my youngest b’day which is 27 December. Do I let my daughter have it? After all, she is one of the people who nudged my Wife to leave. (I know, in the end it was all my Wife’s decision). Unless I can come up with a VERY good reason, I’ll just send the letter/package back marked “Return to Sender”. No explanations needed.<P>Comments?<BR><P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A><BR>

My thoughts - don't hold a grudge against her. She was just speaking from her frame of mind, and my guess is that whatever she said to your wife, she would have still responded the same way. My wife went to visit a friend, and her friend told her everything I would have wanted her to say...and my wife still has not seen the light.<P>Let your youngest have the present...who knows, it might be something good like one of those Pokemon jobbies...

Don't. You'd be punishing your daughter.<P>Chris, my wife had a very close fiend (err... I mean "friend") who supported her affair with the typical stuff (and also lied through her teeth to me). I never did anything against this fiend---it wasn't worth the effort.And now that the affair's over and done with, they don't speak to each other. <P>It's your wife's insanity that's the real issue; and you busting on her friends in any way will not help you build her love for you. But you knew this anyway... you're just testing me. <P>My wife's Bday is the same as your daughters, BTW. I suggest that you buy one big present and say it's a combo Christmas/Bday present (NOT!!!!!!!!).<P>Happy Thanksgiving, and God Bless you and the family.<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited November 23, 1999).]

Chris: I'm not to the point yet as K is where I can be so forgiving, maybe one day but not yet.<P>I'd probably send it back. My W has freinds that did the same thing. She says they were just trying to help her, but you know what? They were just telling her what she wanted to here at the time, no matter what that time is, with me with OM, didn't matter. Point being, what kind of friend is that? No one I want my kids to associate with.<P>Do what you think is right, let her have it, send it back. Truth be known your daughter will never know the difference.<P>To everyone else: Not very uplifting advice, but when it comes to outside interference in relationships I have little sympathy, sorry.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

I agree with K (our cornerstone in the excellent advice department). The gift to your youngest from her godmother is a separate issue.<P>I understand your feelings, and I'm the grudge type myself!!--but being an observer here it sounds like your W's friend gave her rather neutral advice...not really against you but offering her friendly support in making her own decisions. Unless there was more said?<P>Probably best to bite your tongue and let some time pass (which heals all wounds, as the old saying goes). On the other hand, if it's REALLY bothering you, you could make your feelings known in a way that doesn't alter godmom's relationship with your little one.

Chris,<P>You know this is a little Love Buster (disrespectful judgment)...<BR>After the birthday, when you W and friend talk again... the question will come up... "so how about the present"... <P>Do you want to answer to your W on that...<P> <P>Let any sign of affection (except from OM) touch your children... they've already been hurt so much...<P>Jim

Hi, Chris. I gotta vote to give your d the present. First, it's not really fair to her not to.<P>Second - I've learned something. As much as I HATE that expression "follow your heart", I find that it can be just something that someone uses when they can't think of anything else to say, or don't have the courage to say what they feel. <P>It's tough. I have to deal w/ THOSE kind of friends too. Have a great Thanksgiving.<P>Lori

Chris, when I was having EMR I spoke with my best friend. She was actually much more supportive of the affair than I would have expected. She even gave me pointers. So in comparison your Ws friend really didn't do all that much except try to support your wife's feelings at the time. Remember, she wasn't saying anything against You, she just told your W to follow her heart. <BR>Now that my EMR is over I look back on what my friend told me and I'm rather shocked that she would be so helpful. I wish she would have said "follow your heart" and left it at that. <P>Now about the gift, this may seem like a little thing but... If your daughter finds out that she was sent a gift and You didn't allow her to have it, do you think she will understand your reasoning? You will be the one she is mad at. Is it worth it in the long run?

Chris:<P>Why not let your daughter make that decision? She’s going to be 9 years old, and although not quite a “Woman of the World” yet , she’s shown herself to be as amazing as her father in all of this.<P>I would hand her the unopened box, telling her that it’s up to her as to what she wants to do, but also letting her know that “Auntie Fiend told Mommy it was OK to leave us.” Let her know her options. It’s good to protect your kids, but the cold harsh reality of the world is there are some pretty slimy people out there, and your daughters need to know that as well.<P>FWIW, I had friends “enable” my affair as well, and tell me to “follow my heart.” I no longer associate with them.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Chris,<P>As a little aside story to expound on NSR's---my wife's OM did get the kids Christmas presents. I had discussed this with my wife prior to Christmas, using the old one-sided POJA. I let her know that I really didn't want them receiving things from him while we were together.<P>Her solution was to give them the gifts, but not tell them that they were from the OM. I wasn't happy, but in the big picture, it wasn't really terribly important.<P>Now when we go fishing with the OM's fishing rod that he got my son, I just get the satisfaction of taking off that slimy catfish (or bass, or...) and thinking "OM" thoughts with a smile on my face.<P>There's always justice for behaving properly. It just may take a while.

Gotta disagree with my good pal WhoDat. That's too much pressure to stick on a 9 year old.

There’s always more than one way to do things, K... I don’t see the pressure (OK... maybe a little); either it will mean nothing to her, and she’ll <B>still</B> have a nice new present, or she’ll get <B>really</B> creative with the “Return to Sender” message.<P>FWIW, I think I was keying on Chris’ info that they hadn’t seen this woman in 7 years... so his daughter likely doesn’t even KNOW this woman except as the one who sends her a present every year. I dunno if my advice would have been different had it been a close family friend his daughter actually knows, but I doubt it. (not that she would have been so close over the last 10 months, of course...)<P>Also, I don’t think Chris really needs <B>another</B> trigger, like seeing his daughter really enjoy herself with something given by someone who is still holding the knife she stuck in his back.<P>*shrug*<P>I’m sure any way he does it, Chris will handle things with flying colors... <BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

I don't think the issue is about what I think. It is about this woman who is my daughters Godmother NOT telling my Wife to at least return to her daughter. A Godmother is supposed to guide the child through life and be a supporter of values and such.<P>I guess I compare it to getting a "Merry Christmas" card from the heroin dealer who sold dope to you friend/child/brother who overdosed. A bit farfetched? Ask my kids how they feel about Mom and what it's doing to them.<P>My daughter does not know her and doesn't know what she told Mom.<BR>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A><p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited November 23, 1999).]

Chris,<P>My opinion ifs to let her have the gift from your W's friend. I would feel differently if it was from the OM.<P>I do have an opinion on the "friend". Two thoughts cross my mind - one is thata friends tend to try to support the opinion of the person they are listening to. If your wife discussed her affair to the friend, even if she didn't agree, she might feel that her "role as friend" is to be supportive to your W. Not saying I would handle it this way, just saying I think friends usualoly try to be "supportive" to what they think the other person wants.<P>Second thought is this: don't hold the "friend" responsible for the irresponsible behavior of your W. Even if the friend had told your W she was doing the wrong thing, your W probably wouldn't have listened anyway. People in affairs (and I was one) cut as much reality out as possible to justify what they are already doing.<P>I have friends of both my H and I who are somewhat mired in this mess. My H is living with a guy and this guy's girlfriend. These people are MY friends, too. However, I do not blame them for letting my H live there. I do not see them as enabling his affair. If they kick him out, it might be just what he needs as an excuse to go and live with the OW. I guess my oint here is everything is about perspective.<P>I know this whole situation is hurtful for you and your D too with her BD coming up and Mom being gone. Try to normalize her BD as much as possbile. These are TRYING times for you, but keep the faith!!<P>Roll Me Away

Add me to the "let her have it" group... Chris, I feel your gripe with the 'fiend' is between you & her... remember too that you heard YOUR W's version of what her friend told her, and we all know betrayers kinda "hear what they want to hear", right? For all you know, the friend greeted your W's news with a very tepid response, that might have culminated with "welllllll.... I *guess* you have to follow your heart...???..." - hardly a ringing endorsement.<P>I strongly disagree with Whodat's advice to let your daughter decide - maybe if you knew the facts for sure and your daughter was a LOT older - but at 9, uh-uh. You can't hand a little kid a gift and then tell her "you can have it if you want, but the right thing to do is send it back" - talk about pressure!! Choosing between a *present* and her father's approval! As for the suggestion that the kids need to learn about the "uglies" of the real world... I think they already are. <P>I really think you need to separate your feelings toward this woman from her relationship with your daughter. I don't blame you for resenting her, but I feel you have a choice here to do the right thing, or to indulge your anger by poisoning your D's relationship with her.<P>(Sorry all, I'm feelin' bossy today! ) <P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> You can't hand a little kid a gift and then tell her "you can have it if you want, but the right thing to do is send it back" - talk about pressure!! Choosing between a *present* and her father's approval!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I stand corrected, Suse... One of the many things I have learned about myself due to this situation is to admit when I am wrong and your take on the situation shows me I was... insofar as letting HER decide.<P>On that note... <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I feel you have a choice here to do the right thing, or to indulge your anger by poisoning your D's relationship with her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Who says the two have to be mutually exclusive? I’m not saying the right thing and indulging the anger are the same, but according to Chris’ response above, the Fiend is acting VERY contrary to what a GodMother is <B>supposed</B> to do. And doesn’t Chris actually have an <B>obligation</B> to his daughter to keep her away from those types of immoral influences?<P>Then again... like you said, Suse, Chris only has the word of his insane W that the Fiend told her (enthusiastically? or the non-ringing endorsement variety?) to go with her heart. It could very well have been a grudging support, as friends are want to do. Only Donna and the Fiend know for sure. Any way to find out, Chris? Or would you even want to, and would it matter if you did?<P>For example... the friends who I still maintain contact with who knew of my affair made it very clear they were being supportive of ME, but thought my affair was asinine, and tried to talk me out of it. Didn’t work, of course...<P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited November 23, 1999).]

Very graceful retreat, Whodat (& it better have been, cuz I am PMS WOMAN, HEAR ME ROAR!!!)<P>I have to admit I have mixed feelings about Chris's dilemma too... if she really egged Donna to beat feet, that *clearly* was not in the kids' best interest... but since we don't know, and given that what little we DO know came through the "Donna-Filter", I guess I'm inclined to lean toward "the benefit of the doubt" & not burning bridges etc... like you so eloquently put it, *shrug*! <P>Hey, Chris, where are ya? We're being really busy & productive on your behalf here! LOL!

Chris,<P>I vote that you let your daughter receive the present. I would go even further. I would strongly encourage the Godmother to give the present in person. And make sure that you introduce Godmother as a friend of your W.<P>There are two reasons for this; one straight forward and one slightly less nice. If this woman is still the Godmother then it is important that the girls see her from time to time. That is the straight forward reason. THe second reason is that once you introduce this woman as a friend of your W, this woman will get to see the looks on your girls faces as they either shut down or ask her if they know anything about their mother.<P>Unless this woman is a complete idiot the message she will receive will not be pleasant and you will have accomplished the same thing as sending the present back and the children will have their present.<P>Kill them with kindess Chris. It is much more effective and always works no matter how things turn out.<P>God Bless You and Your Kids

Chris,<BR>I think you need to be your daughter's parent advocate in this case.<P>Feeling the way you do, I would contact that woman and preface your remarks with...you are Donna's friend and daughter's Godmother, and I really need to know were you stand on a few issues as it relates to your Goddaughter.<P>I would outline what you think the commitment and involvement you think a Godmother should have. (Is it possible that she sees this as ceremonial and her function is simply to send cards and gifts?) I would then ask her if she agrees with your definition or would like to add something.<P>I would then say it is important to know what role she had in Donna leaving when she did. Tell her you heard your wife's version, but to be fair, you want to hear it from her. If what you think she said was misrepresented and she's innocent, the coversation is over and she would be in sync with your ideas of a Godmother, which of course is somewhat more important with wife gone. <P>If she supports your wife's screwy thinking, then I think she has some explaining to do on how she views her commitment to her daughter. <P>If you can not agree, then you need to evaluate your choices. Given the age of your daughter and the trauma, I'd say let it go, take the gift and run, as long as there is really no current relationship with daughter that could be of influence to her. I would terminate the relationship and "fire" her as Godmother when she is old enough to understand, but not when things are still so confusing and painful. If Godmother really isn't a part of her life, she is not an impact.<P>I think YOU may need to tell her exactly how you feel about what she told wife and terminate your relationship with her on principle (spelling)<P>Just my thoughts. Wouldn't you just like to whack a few people some days? Is there 2x4 training for Godmothers?<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi Chris -<P>Well, I finally had a reply all set for you after hemming and hawing about it and when I get here - darn if FHL didn't beat me to it!!!! Of course, she puts it a lot better than my disjointed thoughts......so, have to say that I agree with FHL.<P>If you want the Godmother role in your Daughter's life straightened out for HER sake, then call this person and find out the story....then when your D's older you can give her the history and let her make up her own mind.<P>Let her have the present if it's sent...your D probably won't relate anything about the gift with Mom or God so that is your adult perception. She certainly doesn't know that this woman helped Mom to run away....<P>BIG HUGS - I agree with the hypocrosy of the whole thing....you can't really be sure of the conversation though and could be misjudging. But, then again, you may have a feel for this friend and be right on target!! ASK her and see what comes from it.<P>Sheba<p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited November 23, 1999).]