Let me just confirm what everyone else has already told you about his wife. <P>She probably does know in her heart that this is going on. My H's affair started sometime in October. I knew something was going on. I felt it in my soul. He began treating me so different and eventually started treating me in a horrible way. He picked fights all the time. (It was his way of justifying having the affair!).I did not learn the truth until Dec. 23rd. He left that day and hasn't come home yet. He lives with her. <P>She has helped to destroy my children and me. But my marriage is not the first that she's interfered in. There have been at least 3 others. Plus a man got shot because she was dating 2 men at one time. Not exactly what I want for my H.<P>Stay strong and keep the no contact rule. Honestly, you don't know what she could be capable of if she found out about you. I have had so many thoughts of ways that I could destroy her life. I've wanted to go to her work and tell them, I've wanted to go to her house and confront her. (And yes, I even thought about taking a gun with me!) I have wanted her to pay for her part in the destruction of my marriage and my children's lives. But I am a better person than that. I am trying to just let it roll off.<P>About the kids... I have 3 sons. ages 10, 7 1/2 and 2 1/2. My oldest is angry and bitter. At times he says he never wants to see his dad again. My middle one hasn't been sleeping lately. He has nightmares all the time. I find him on the couch every morning with the tv on. He gets up during the night and watches tv until he falls back to sleep. Try functioning in school after a few nights like that. He has also started having "accidents" which are at the moment uncontrollable and very embarsassing to him. My 2 1/2 yr old, wants me to call his daddy all the time. He says that daddy will come home and sleep in the "big bed" "bery, bery soon"! I did not tell you this to make you think I don't welcome you but to give you some idea of what my kids are going thru. This could happen to his kids. <P>You definately are welcome here. You can give some of us so much insite. Please keep coming back and we will help you be strong.<P>Prayers,<BR>Mitzi <P>

Jill, thank you for your prayers....I do believe in the power of prayer and can certainly use all I can get. I just wish the running part was easier. I've called his voicemail number a zillion times today so that I could hear his voice. I have resisted the urge to email him but letting go is excruiatingly painful. Especially because I don't WANT to let him go...nor does he want me to let him go. I'm only doing this because I do realize that it is grossly unfair to his wife and because I feel like such a hipocrite being so active in my church knowing inside I'm committing adultery. The guilt is getting to me. I am trying to resume my prayer life but I feel like I'm just going thru the motions. My mind automatically drifts to him as I find it increasingly difficult to concentrate on ANYTHING.....work, kids, God.....through the pain and tears. Thanks again for keeping me in prayer. I desperately need it. I don't expect sympathy....that's not why I started posting here. In fact, I'm not sure why I did start posting here....I think it was just to reaffirm that no matter what sort of pain I am enduring, I am doing the right thing in ending this. <P>nabilqad ~ yes, I have felt betrayal. My x-husband had an uncomfirmed affair. He never did admit it but things like him coming home late, hair tossled and fingernail marks down his back (which he attributes to his back was itching and his secretary was scratching it for him) or coming home smelling like another woman's perfume, etc....all seemed very odd to me. I loved him, had children with him but I loved myself more and therefore did not want to stay in that kind of marriage. I divorced him and not even 6 months later he was married to his secretary, the woman I suspected all along. So I do agree with you that the spouse probably does know something is going on, and that's why, despite the fact that I am a walking, talking woman full of pain, anguish and despair, I am ending the affair in hopes that his wife won't have to endure this same kind of torture......and probably to an even greater extent because as NEW_BEGINNING pointed out, I haven't been there thru anywhere near as much as he and his wife have after 13 years together. As always NB, your points are well-taken and confirm what I already know I must do....continue down this road of ending it forever. <P>Mitzi - I've read horror stories on here about how awful the OW is. I hope you can see we're not all like that. I sometimes cry so hard that I end up throwing up and the pain I carry is almost unbearable. I know that what I have done is wrong, wrong, wrong and I also know that I deserve every bit of suffering I am going thru and will continue to go thru for who knows how long. Hopefully by me ending it now, she may suspect something was wrong but will never have to find out about the betrayal. And I know that she'll never know that I did this for her (gave him up) but at least I can start to try and get things right with God again. <P>Chris ~ I know you are probably right but I can only hope that you are wrong. Maybe she is and will remain in the dark about the whole thing. I know I shouldn't believe everything he says but I do know that at least part of what he says is true as we have mutual friends due to our work. We live in different states but I used to live where he lives and still keep in contact with people there. She never wants to go out with him.....he always dines out with some mutual friends and just tells them "ah, she couldn't get a babysitter" but that's not true....he's lined up a sitter on numerous occassions...they just don't do much together ever. I can sit here and list example after example of what I believe to be a loveless marriage but the keyword there is MARRIAGE. They are married, whether I like it or not and that's why I am trying so hard to back off despite the incredible mutual love we have for each other. Thank you for your prayers as well. I am desperately in need of them.<P>You have all been so wonderful in your responses. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. In tears, Judy<BR>

Judy,<BR>I do not think that all OW are horrible. Yeah there are some cases like that. But one of my closest friends here was the betrayer in her marriage. And I have no bad feelings about her, actually we've gotten very close. We are only human, after all. <P>And it's not that you deserve to suffer. It's just part of the grieving and healing process. It's similar to the same pain that a person who has had a loved one pass away. But it will get easier. Every day that you stay away from him will be easier and easier.<P>Take care of yourself and take the advice you've been given. When you feel weak, post here and we'll be glad to give support.<P>Prayers,<BR>Mitzi

AZHOOTIE,<P>First of all, (((((((((AZ))))))))))!!!!<BR>Here is a big hug for you! I know you need it. <P>I just got through reading your thread and I have to say I am so proud of you!!! <BR>GREAT JOB!!!!!<BR>You are on the right track.. One problem, You must cut all contact!!!!!!!! I mean NOW!!<P>Being that I am now overcoming withdrawal. I know exactly how u feel. I can not explain to you what you have ahead of you. You are lucky though. Your not married. I am. My OM was married as well. My last contact with him was Jan. 1, 2000.<P>I dont want to waste all your time telling my story. You can read all my threads. I will give you some hope here though. I know when I first came here. I was delighted to find someone who was a betrayer. I was "in love" with a married man. My marriage was over. H and I were just roommates. He didnt even know that I existed. Then along cam "HELL". That was all he was. However when I first ended it. I didnt think so. I thought he was the "world". Well, Well, Well. Reality sat in finally. Especially when I ended it. Again you can read the threads.<P>Number 1. Keep this in your mind. The reason you found this forum was because God directed you here. This is going to be your haven. You will need to post post post.. <BR>God sent you here for a reason. For these people here to be your support as well as him. And THANK GOD THEY ARE HERE. There are some great people here. I dont know what I would have done without them. Just remember to POST!!!!! Be honest and tell us how you are feeling...<P>Now, for the hard part. WITHDRAWAL!!!!!!!<BR>Honey, this is going to be the hardest thing that you have ever done in your life. It is HELL!!! I am just going to be honest!!! I dont think I have ever experienced anything like this.. <BR>As far as the NO CONTACT. Trust me, you will just go backsliding if you talk to him. I seen my OM once after about 6 weeks. And all of the feelings come rushing back. STAY AWAY!! I know it is hard. But you have to do it. And it wont be easy! There will be times that you are dying to pick up that phone and just hear his voice. This is the time that your walk with God will become greater.. I was the very same way. Spiritually I had no life. I DO NOW! <P>As time goes on. It will heal. And youu will have times that Satan throws in a curve ball. But thank God that he is there. The first 5 weeks of withdrawal I seen OM on the road everyday... It made it even harder. Im still not over it. But I can now go through the day and he isnt on my mind constantly. Make this a challenge for you. Always look at the positive. And PRAY PRAY PRAY!! <P>Right now you are thinking of him every minute. 2 weeeks from now you will be thinking of him every 30 minutes. 4 weeks from now you will think of him every hour, and so on. TIME WILL HEAL! <P>I AM VERY PROUD OF YOU! THIS SHOWS THE GREAT PERSON THAT YOU ARE. YOU DONT WANT TO BE THE BLAME FOR HIS FAMILY FALLING APART!! <BR>THAT TAKES A GREAT PERSON! THERE ARE PEOPLE HERE THAT WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO BE THEIR HUSBANDS OW. <P>Keep your chin up high! Keep yourself busy! And also something that helped me was anti-depressants. I would probably be a nut if it wasnt for those. LOL!<P>Im here for you. I know what you are in for. Remember, Keep your head high. You cannot get frustrated and call his W or anything like that. You will also go through that stage. When you feel things like that let us know. I wouldnt do anything without the forums opinion. <P>You may email me personally if you would like. RPSTYLE@AOL.COM. I will be more than glad to help you. I know what hell ou are in. <P>I will say a special prayer for you tonight.<BR>Take Care<BR>God Bless<BR>Renee <P>You are doing a great thing here. Just think 15 years down the raod when you do see him. You can think I am so glad I didnt destroy their family!!<P>Pat yourself on the back right now! You deserve it..<P><P>------------------<BR>

AZ: You will get through this.. Please just take one day at a time. Some day you will be able to look back on this and realize things better, but for now, just concentrate on getting through each day.. Use each day as a building block to the next.. Withdrawal will last anywhere from 1-6 months, the worst of which will be the first couple of months.. It will get better.. Its so crucial that you do not contact him anymore, or your withdrawal will be back to day 1 each time you see or talk to him.. And you will prolong this living hell you are going through.<P>I posted some exerpts from a book by Frank Pitman "Private Lies".. Look for the post.. It talks about your chances of a succesful marriage to MM being very, very, small,, and lists reasons why if it ever even got to the point of marriage to MM (usually doesnt make it that far), why it will fail... I agree with most of the post, except there are a couple of points in there about OW that I dont think are true in all cases..<P><BR>Good Luck and God Bless.. Be strong,, you can do this... It is the right thing to do.. You will be blessed some day for making the right decision.

I am only human....a sorry excuse for a human, but human nonetheless. and as humans we make mistakes. I just made a big one. He was online and sent me some messages and instead of closing down ICQ and ignoring them, I responded. To my credit, my messages reiterated the fact that it's over between us and that he needed to seek counseling. I KNOW I SHOULDN'T HAVE ANSWERED AT ALL. I hate myself for doing it but it was like I was on "auto-pilot" and I couldn't stop. Backslide city. I feel like I let everyone down.....myself, him, his wife, even you who have given me so much advice. I'm truly sorry. GOD GIVE ME STRENGTH. Please keep my in your prayers.

This is not a place to beat yourself up!<P>STOP THAT!<P>You did a little backslide... okay, get up, brush yourself off, and go FORWARD.<P>So you answered his messages... big whoop... keep going, sweetie!!! You CAN do this!!! This is brand new and you made a boo boo... YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!!!<P>DO YOU HEAR ME? <P>You are a good person who is trying her dam*dest to do the right thing, and you know what that is... <P>Tell your friends on ICQ that you're moving to Yahoo IM, and then delete ICQ; get rid of the temptation. I know it well... had to do the same thing myself.<P>Okay??<P>YOU CAN DO THIS!<P>Love and Hugs, Sheryl

Judy, Judy, Judy <P>Backslide, I can't believe that, none of us here have ever backslid, love busted, failed the no contact clause, or any of that stuff, cause we are all superhuman marriage builders. <P>The point is, yes, we are all human and as humans we are entitled to make our mistakes, and Lord knows, we all make plenty of them. Keep your positive mental attitude. You know what you need to do and if you need us to support you in your journey, we'll do that.<P>Stay strong, we know you can do it. If you feel the need to contact him, try checking out the board or emailing one of us or just posting a HELP!!!! message. We are here for you, okay? Keep smiling <P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

I have a suggestion...when he contacts you, before you reply, post here! So many of us are here alot during the day. We will help you!!! Let us!!<P>Don't worry about messing up. It happens to all of us. I still can't get the hang of Plan A yet! Only human.<P>Take care,<BR>Mitzi

Azhootie,<P>You're on the right track. Glad you found us!<BR>Here are some helps that have meant so much to me when I was (and sometimes am now) in the pits of despair. Let your faith help you! God is for you, not against you!<P>Psalm 143 Psalm 51 Isaiah 59<P>Blessings upon you.<P>Pilgrim

Azhootie,<BR> Hi, I am a member (but only a lurker lately) For some reason I was compelled to reply. I sense you have a good heart and that God understands that you are being tempted. His son was also tempted. It's WHAT you do with it in the long run that matters. <BR> When you get weak, come here FIRST (after prayer of course) and try to remember how it feels to be betrayed.<BR> Attach more PAIN to contact with him than PLEASURE. Your brain will help your heart. Kind of like thinking of eating Squid or the most disgusting food you can think of. Focus on God. This will help.<BR> GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK

Man....I cannot believe how similar this story sounds to mine. I am the OM who is married. The OW is married with no kids. We met (ironically) here on these boards. We ended up over our heads with each other and planned a meeting. We have fallen in love, confessed our sin to our spouses, and are not doing a good job of "making the break". And for the very reasons you describe...the emotional bond is so intense...the pain of seperating so unbearable. In our cases, we both realize this is not right, we've not tried to justify our actions...we both are struggling with our Christian faith, we don't claim to have "horrible spouses"...we are just both in marriages where things got pretty stale...and we were not "looking" for someone else...we just "ended up" together.<BR>We KNOW what we should do...NEED to do...we just seem so powerless and incapable of DOING IT. WE have tried numerous times to cut ties, then end up getting in touch with each other...with a greater desprate love and need...and feel more discouraged than ever. It has become an endless cycle...we are both so tired...emotinally drained...yet very much in love with each other. The reality of facing genuine withdrawl is just to hard for us right now. It is very discouraging...and I know what you are feeling. <P>Yes....it would have been good to never have "opened this door". But we did, and we just don't know how to get out. Our biggest fear is that we will totally cave in to our heart's longings...and destroy countless lives. <P>Sorry this is not so encouraging....we are just painfully looking for answers ourselves.<BR>I know there are some well-intending "counslors" that post here. Somehow, when I hear the flippant shallow advice of "just break it off...run...quit..." I have to wonder if they really know the level of intensity of this pull on the human heart. I have honeslty tried everything I know to do. Prayer, counseling, anti-depressants, fasting, confessing, repenting...accountability...you name it. And I am still losing the war...<P>May God have mercy on us both...<P>

He just called. He said he thought I would be at lunch and would get my voicemail and just needed to hear my voice. Whilst I didn't slam down the phone, I did say "well I am here, and we can't talk. bye...." and hung up. But oh the pain. Once again I find myself sitting in my office tears spilling heart aching almost beyond what I can bear. And ya know what's sad to me? He sent me emails this morning (to which I didn't respond) and he is at work when they are closed for President's day. He has no NEED to be there. He's just there to escape being at home. And he writes in his emails that if we were together, he'd never have come into work. He'd be home with me. Do you have any idea of how badly I wanted to pick up the phone and say "then just BE WITH ME?" but I didn't. I logged on here and read thru these messages and am trying to be strong and do the right thing. Thanks for your support. It is very helpful...<P>Inamess - Bless you for your kind (and honest) words. I pray you are right and that as each day goes by it will get easier. Right now it certainly doesn't feel that way. Right now I cry so hard and long that I end up throwing up. Right now the pain seems more than I can bear. I will keep trying to get thru one day at a time though. Thanks again!<P>Mickey65 - I read thru the "private lies" info. Makes alot of sense altho I do not have any plans to be with this man in the future. Here is an excerpt from an email I sent him before finding this site (he was questioning the value of counselling because he said he wasn't sure if he wanted him marriage to work): Nope, I totally DISAGREE with the thing about counseling being of value only if you know what you want. I think you need to pour your heart out to someone and let them help and guide you. And you need to enter into this with only ONE objective. Fixing your marriage. Not making a choice between the two of us. That decision has already been made. Now stick with it. Stop daggling that carrot out if front of me and start working on your marriage. <P>What we did was horrible, Will. XXXX is your wife. You stood in front of God and everyone and pledged your faithfulness to her. She is the one who has been by your side for all these years. She deserves better than what we have done to her. And maybe she does - maybe she doesn't know that you've been screwing around, but no matter what the case, we have taken from her what was rightly hers. Your time, your love, your devotion, your affections. GIVE IT BACK. 100%. (END OF EMAIL) So, you see, I'm not planning on him ever being in my life. I'm just trying to face the harsh reality of life without him. But again, thanks for the information. <P>NB - Thanks ever so much for the encouragement and hugs. What a wonderful person you are!!!<P>Sparkydog - Thank you! Your message made me smile!! First time in the last few days, I believe. I appreciate you taking the time to post. It definitely helps.<P>Mitzi - Thanks! I will take you up on your offer.....it is soooo hard not to respond to his emails when he poses a question or something in there. I got 3 today before I got to work. I can't tell you how difficult it was to resist writing back. Especially when he dangles that dang carrot out there (i.e. Before we met, I thought things could have been better than they were, but I had no idea how special I could feel with the right person(YOU). I don't think I would have ever considered leaving her, but now the idea of a life with you seems so appealing. Life would have been so much easier, just muddleing along in mediocrity.... but you changed that forever. In a way, I kind of hate you for that, you know I'm not good at making tough decisions.... and now I find myself faced with the toughest one of my life. END) That just screams for a reply!!!! I wish HE was the one who wanted it to end. I wish *I* wanted it to end. That's what makes this extremely difficult because I love this man with all my heart, mind, body and soul. I'm only ending it because I can't live with the guilt of what it could do to his family and because I am sure that Holy Spirit is convicting me every moment of every day. *aaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhh* Pray for me!!!!!<P>Pilgrim - I wish I had my bible at work. I will look up those passages when I get home. Will give me an excuse to dust off my bible since I haven't done so in months. Prior to this, I read my bible daily. This has messed me up in more ways than one. Thanks again for your concern and support.<P>Frank ~ I love squid (calamari)! But I do understand what you mean and thank you for your input. It's hard to attach pain to contact with him when the sound of his voice just melts me. I will try tho because I do want to do the right thing. Thanks!!!<P>No Mas - Thank you for sharing your story and feelings. It does sound very similar to mine except that I am not married (and how I wish I were because I know that I wouldn't be in this mess if I were!!) I wonder if you would really be destroying "countless lives" if you gave into your heart. If I were married to a man who was no longer in love with me (which I was) I would rather him let me go to find someone who would truly love me and cherish me rather than having an affair (which he did, I believe). I think it is one of the most UNselfish things a person can do. I would rather have had my xH say to me "Judy, we got married too young and for the wrong reasons and it's just not working out. Let's talk about getting a divorce" and then let me leave with some dignity rather than having an affair. That's just me though. I know there are people who would rather just pretend they don't know and stay in a "stale" loveless marriage vs. being on their own. So I didn't quite understand ... are the two of you still having the affair? If so, I'd encourage you to listen to these "well-intending counselors" because even though they DO tend to make it sound easy, they certainly are wonderfully supportive when you fall. Read some of the replies I got when I caved and chatted with my MM on ICQ. They were great!!!! I think they realize that this will take time but they want to help prevent me from making the same mistakes they did/do. It's not over til it's over, No Mas!!! Hang in there. I know I am! <P>Thanks again to one and all! <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by azhootie (edited March 02, 2000).]

Listen, you two (NoMas and AZ)... <P>Yes, it seems like your hearts rule you, and you truly *love* these people, and you probably do! No matter how you met, whether or not you *should* have been talking, emailing, whatever... no matter anything else, both of you know that it cannot continue the way it is! I have been where you are... I have to WORK with the OM, see him 5 days a week... if you think it's hard to get someone off your ICQ, off your mind, try looking at them 40 hours a week! But it <B>CAN</B> be done. How? And you're gonna hate me... STOP IT. I know how much it hurts, I know!! There are days that I STILL, after nine months, catch his eye, *know* what he's thinking, and have some of those thoughts myself. But it's wrong. Why? Let's just skip the obvious legalities for a moment; ya know, the fact that they are/you are married. Here's why it's wrong: Because if it wasn't, you wouldn't feel like this. You are not only hurting them, you're hurting <B>YOURSELVES</B>!!!<P>Remember, I'm coming from the side that understands too well... and it's helped me in dealing with my H's affairs... believe me!! <P>Let go... let them get their lives straight before you get sucked into something that could affect the rest of your lives, and not for the better! <P>And I mean <B>no</B> offense, hope none is felt by either of you!

No offense taken NB!<P>I do know that what I was doing was wrong which is exactly why I am trying to STOP IT! I can try to slice it and dice it and splice it but no matter what I do, the bottom line is I am committing adultery and I must, AT ALL COSTS, stop. <P>I am thankful that I don't have to see him every day. Infact, I don't think our paths will cross again for business until April. I'm hoping to be much futher along in the healing process by then so that all the feelings don't come rushing back. The fact that you DID/DO have to see him everyday certainly gives me hope and encouragement! Thanks once again. You continue to say things I need to hear!

Pilgrim: Thank you sooooo much for those scripture passages. I can't tell you how wonderful it felt to actually pick up my bible. Because of my behavior over the last 10 months, I could not bear to even LOOK at it, never mind READ it! I felt as if the words were caressing my very being. A million thanks for pointing those verses out. You are truly - in the most literal sense - a Godsend. Bless you and thank you!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NoMas:<BR><B>Man....I cannot believe how similar this story sounds to mine. I am the OM who is married. The OW is married with no kids. We met (ironically) here on these boards. We ended up over our heads with each other and planned a meeting. We have fallen in love, confessed our sin to our spouses, and are not doing a good job of "making the break". And for the very reasons you describe...the emotional bond is so intense...the pain of seperating so unbearable. In our cases, we both realize this is not right, we've not tried to justify our actions...we both are struggling with our Christian faith, we don't claim to have "horrible spouses"...we are just both in marriages where things got pretty stale...and we were not "looking" for someone else...we just "ended up" together.<BR>We KNOW what we should do...NEED to do...we just seem so powerless and incapable of DOING IT. WE have tried numerous times to cut ties, then end up getting in touch with each other...with a greater desprate love and need...and feel more discouraged than ever. It has become an endless cycle...we are both so tired...emotinally drained...yet very much in love with each other. The reality of facing genuine withdrawl is just to hard for us right now. It is very discouraging...and I know what you are feeling. <P>Yes....it would have been good to never have "opened this door". But we did, and we just don't know how to get out. Our biggest fear is that we will totally cave in to our heart's longings...and destroy countless lives. <P>Sorry this is not so encouraging....we are just painfully looking for answers ourselves.<BR>I know there are some well-intending "counslors" that post here. Somehow, when I hear the flippant shallow advice of "just break it off...run...quit..." I have to wonder if they really know the level of intensity of this pull on the human heart. I have honeslty tried everything I know to do. Prayer, counseling, anti-depressants, fasting, confessing, repenting...accountability...you name it. And I am still losing the war...<P>May God have mercy on us both...<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>NoMas:<P>I am one of the responders who said "run". I never meant to sound "flippant". I apologize if you thought so. I was simply trying to state what has "worked" for me so far. I know that you are in agony -- boy, do I remember what THAT's like! I will say a special pray for you tonight.<P>Jill

Hi Azhootie,<P> Just wanted to say thanks for posting and how I wish you were my H's OW.....you sound like a very nice person who made a bad mistake. What I wouldn't give to hear some of those words from my H's OW.....it would have helped in the healing process. It helps to know that their are betrayers (like many on this board) who take what they have done seriously....thanks! and good luck , you deserve someone who can love you entirely.....LU

Hey Judy,<BR>Just wanted to start your day with a . Remember to check us out if you need help, support, or just a friendly hello.<P>Take care.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

Jill....<BR>I appreciate your spirit and attitude...no offense taken from you. I have seen over the months a lot of shallow counsel given, which is what I was refering to.<P>What may come even more shocking to you, and I am not boasting, believe me, but I have been in the ministry for 11 years. Married for 19 with 3 kids. This "dilema" I find myself in is the first time I have ever encountered anything like this. This past year has been a real war for me on several fronts. I will spare all the details, but believe me...with "all I know" and "all I have preached" and "all I have counseled", I have a new understanding and compassion for people struggling in sin. <P>I have not had a "woman" problem. This struggle has not been about "sex". THere is an emotional bond here that "should have never happened", but it did. And I have been in the battle of my life to overcome it.<P>believe me, I know the scriptures...I have days when I feel OK...that I can do this...then, the recoil of longing snaps us back like you wouldn't believe.<P>