Okay here goes:<P><B>I don't know what the hell I'm doing?</B><P>I know, probably not a confession, BUT I NEED HELP!<P>As some of you may recall, my H told me a couple of weeks ago that he is continuing with the seperation and that the divorce will happen. So after almost two years of busting my @ss, I became numb and didn't give a damn anymore. In matter of fact I didn't care to hear from him, no less see him. I decided that the marriage was over. No motivation and hope lost as well. I didn't tell H and still haven't told him of this decision. I thought that I'd just show him. I took off my rings and due to my feelings, I found myself being very short with H. I was not Lovebusting, however I discontinued Plan A as far as my H was concerned but continued to try to work on me.<P>So H called me last night. He had called to tell me that he was back from weekend trip he took with friends. I really didn't acknowledge this and just asked was he going to be able to take care of our d this weekend since i had to work. He said that he would be here and I said ok, happy you made it back safe and said bye. Instead of getting off the phone, he started conversation basically about nothing. Well we chit chatted for a bit longer and then hung up.<P>Later, I'm chatting on the computer and he walks through the door. I almost pissed in my pants. He said he came down to give me the paperwork necesary for me to complete taxes. I asked why he din't just give them to me Friday when he came to take care of tamia. He said that he just wanted to get them done. I just said okay. I completed the taxes and was gonna file electronically, when he just went in my or our bedroom and went to bed. I asked him if he was gonna sign ECF form and he said he would in the morning.<P>So I go to bed. As I lay there I know he's not sleep. I don't say anything and he cuddles up to me. I'm just quiet. And then we are intimate. I won't lie, it was great. We go to bed and neither of us say a word, he just looks at me and I him. I'm thinking to myself. What are you doing? This is suppose to be over? Why is he doing this to me? Or why am I allowing him to do this to me? I fall asleep confused! <P>The alarm clock goes off and he gets up to get ready for work so I think. I hear him go into the living room to make a phone call as I am faking sleep ofcourse! i can't hear a thing. He comes back into the room and gets back into bed. Then the same thing as last night!! I asked aren't you gonna be late. He just replied I just called them and told them I'd be late, that something came up. And yes it was great again. This time he gets dressed for work and kisses (smack) bye!<P>What am I doing people? I'm so damn confused. Is he just using me because he knows he can? Or is he also confused? I can't live like this? I can't keep being intimate and then he just divorces me anyway? This is not fair. I want to feel numb again, but here I go on this damn rollercoater ride again.<P>PLEASE HELP ME!!! <P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com<p>[This message has been edited by jamie-lee (edited February 23, 2000).]

I have to work tomorrow so I must head to bed now. I would appreciate any input. This is hard for me and I don't know what direction I'm headed. <P><P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

Jamie-Lee,<P>I would guess he is having second thoughts about all of this. He will probably have many reversals as this progresses. You have to decide if you want to continue or not.<P>If it bothers you to sleep with him, then don't. If you like it enjoy it. It may change his mind. <P>It seems to me that he really doesn't know what he wants. It would appear that he has not found someone else. So who knows. This may be good news. Just watch and see what happens.<P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL

Hi Jamie-Lee,<P>I'm sorry I have no answers for you. I thought my roller-coaster ride was over, however, it has just started up again....<P>I am very angry with my H for putting me through all this, but I wanted to post and let you know that I'm thinking of you.<BR>I have been where you are now, and there are no easy answers. You must do what feels right for you and your daughter, as you are the only one that knows...<BR>It does sound like how my situation was, ie, still making great love etc, but my H wouldn't choose betw me and OW. He wanted her, and was going to have her, but wanted me in Melb with the children so he could visit when he decided he wanted to. I guess I made the decision for him, by leaving, which I think he wanted me to do anyway. He wasn't man enough to make the decision, or commit to working things out with me.<P>I'm so sorry, I'm venting on your thread.<P>I'm thinking of you, and a big hug for you<P>Jo

Maybe I'm wrong but if you have a good thing going for you, you don't stop, you keep doing it. You are still married and married people do sleep together. <BR>I think the only problem I would have is if she had some disease or something, and I would tell him something like, WOW, I love that we can do this but I am scared, can we have some testing done or can you use something to insure I am safe?<BR>After busting your butt all this time, the moment you start working on yourself is when things work. You know, that's what plan A really is about. I know some people think it's a plan to save your marriage but it is my ultimate belief that plan A is getting back to thinking about yourself and growing stronger within yourself. I probably am wrong but it's my belief that if you have something good you need to work with it and just let it grow.....God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

Jamie-Lee,<P>I am no expert either, but I notice when I give up on my H, he comes around, just a little, then when I fight full force, he runs. It does sound like he is having second thoughts. The roller coaster is hard, but if its not over yet, (the marriage or the affair), it will be hard to get off anyhow. Personally if sex doesn't bother you, I wouldn't think too much of it, you have needs too, right? Safety still a concern though. <P>I hope you are doing better by the time you get this, I am a little late here Dana<BR>

Jamie-Lee,<P>About a month or so after the divorce, my H said he wanted to move back in with me. I told him that I won't live with a man without a commitment. If he was ready to re-marry me, then I'd agree. Well, he wasn't, and so he didn't move in. I also told him I wasn't having sex with someone I wasn't married to anymore. He'd say, "that's funny coming from you". What an *sshole. He'd basically go on his travelling job all week, then come to my place and expect "free" sex, a meal, etc. I was being used. Like, keeping me around till he could find something better. He hadn't kept a single promise to me all year. What promises has your H kept to you? <P>You're H can't have it both ways. Either work on the marriage, or get a divorce. Playing "nice" shouldn't mean he gets to use you for sex, then shove this divorce threat in your face. Does it ever occur to you that ,when he wants something extra special from you he threatens you with a divorce? Like, do what I want, or I'll divorce you? Honestly, what HAS he done to work on the marriage. I don't blame you for being fed-up. He's getting lots of mileage out of your affair, sounds like. <P>Here is a BIG indicator that you are not having sex for YOU. You seem worried that you'll continue to have sex with him, and he'll still divorce you. If you were having sex for YOU, you wouldn't be worried about whether or not he'd divorce you. As it stands, it sounds like the only reason you are having sex with him is to somehow persuade him not to get a divorce. I guarantee you will feel used no matter what the outcome. Decide if/when sex feels right for you, and nobody else. If it doesn't feel right, then don't let your H threaten or coerce you into doing otherwise. If he wants to earn back your trust, he'll have to start doing some work on the relationship. You'll find out reallllllly quick where he is at. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited February 24, 2000).]

um, if my memory serves me right, you betrayed your H with a one night stand....is that correct?....<P>then you had that blow-up at the base when a friend of his showed up, and you took off your rings after he said he could not take your jealousy and waiting for him to have a revenge affair....<P>my H was waiting for me to have a revenge affair...well, hey! all his friends told him to expect it....even up to and after 2 years after his own affair.....<P>Jamie, I think your H loves you, but does not know what to do...or how to make you believe that he will not betray you in revenge....<P>he came home probably reacting to your coldness and numbness on the phone.....depending on what he is used to hearing..you may have worried him....he may have come home to check on you....<P>if the sex is good....go for it...if he is what you would want in a partner, go ahead..but never do it for the wrong reasons...and perhaps, take the sex just as that...sex. attach no meaning to it if you do not want to drive yourself insane...<P>remember your own great advice to Bill once, here on the board...'''keep working on you'''...make home a great, nice, fun place to be whenever he is there....if you feel like being intimate...it's your call...just be the greatest Jamie-Lee you can, and let him wonder...he obviously has feelings for you...<P>by the way, do you remember riding the rollercoaster when you were a child?....I do....as adults, it's almost sad that we forget the joy and the abandon in the ride..they are there...right alongside the fear and the 'oh-god-I want-to-die' feelings.....<BR>Don't get me wrong....it's just that WE can change the way we look at the ride....it brings joys, that 'fearless' feel as you hit the top of the next plunge......the undescribable freedom and pleasure that only screaming at the top of your lungs can truly bring.....<P>LOL<P>((((((((((((Jamie-lee))))))))))))))))<P>ps, just my canadian 2 cents...<P>next time he starts to be intimate, face him, and tell him if he wants intimacy, then he needs to show you 'real intimacy'.....ask him for an 'all-over' body massage.....BEFORE anything else happens....<P>I would think it would be extremely difficult for him to think of you, and to have yourself thinking of you as an object...think about it....he has to touch you...REALLY touch you, feel you right in front of him...and not just in a sexual way.... <P><BR>Dylan....re-reading that and saying.."who wrote that..what??....but I'll stand by it...lol."

jamie-lee,<BR>I would say that he is interested. He misses you. Yet, you might have to deal with him withdrawing because of unresolved anger about the circumstances. If you can get him to talk through it do so. I wish my W would talk to me about what she has done and still is doing. Sometimes I wish that we didn't have children, it would be much easier to let her live on her own for a while to see that OM is a loser and doesn't have her best interest in mind. I digress.<P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net

Just Learning:<BR>It doesn't bother me to sleep with him. He's my H. Just in doing so, I feel as though I am remaining so emotionally tied to him without the assurance of a future together. I hope he changes his mind as well! Thanks for responding.<P>bonnet:<BR>Vent all you want! I'm sorry that you are going through so much pain. It just doesn't seem fair. Thanks for the Hug!! Sending one right back at ya'.<P>chicks:<BR>Well, as far as I know H does not have OW. (I was betrayer two year ago ne night stand) So therefore, I don't think I have to worry about catching something from him. But I do hope you are right! I hope that I do have somehting to work with and that there's still hope. I'm trying to keep expectations low as possible, but when he has done things like this before I would gain hope,only to be let down again. Thanks!!<P>Dana, <BR>I hope he is having second thoughts too! I really don't want to lose him. It seems as if I been to hell and back trying to hold on to him and its so hard to let go. I appreciate your thoughts and I am feeling a little better.<P>TheStudent,<BR>I know, I know. But I've asked him before how could he remain intimate with me and still want divorce. He says that he does love me and care for me. Then gives me some bull for an excuse why he wants divorce. Has the nerve to say that my one night stand has nothing to do with it. I don't buy it! And to top it off, he'll say that the future is always subject to change. Confusing huh? My H is in my same faith and I just don't understand why is he doing this. Like you said, either work on the marriage or divorce me. Yet he'll say at other times that he is gonna follow his heart and whatever happens happens. That God has never led him wrong. How can we believe in the same God and be hearing two different things. Or maybe its me. Maybe he has told me what I need to move on, yet I string myself along. WHo in the hell knows, but I am fed up. I'm tired, but so confused. God knows I never thought I could love someone so much. I never thought my heart could hurt this bad. I know I was the betrayer two years ago, but I have done everything I can do, It's time for him to piss or get off the pot. <P>Dylan:<BR>I want so much to believe your words. I have done so much in the past years to prove to him that I am the woman he married. Yet he has not done anything in return. How can he blame me for being jealous and insecure? When he is the one that lives as a single man and doesn't care about my feeling. He puts himself first. I know he has hurt from what I did, but he could have left me then and I would have been able to understand. Yet instead he said he would try, but never did. He just did whatever he pleased whenever he wanted, came home when he wanted. And expected me to ask no questions. I took it for a long time, thinking that I deserved this treatment. But no longer do I feel like I should be trampled over. Yes, sometimes I also believe that H doesn't know what he wants, but then I feel like he just has become SELFISH!! You are right, i can change the way I look at this ride and I will try harder to do so. I think that I will ask him to show me real intimacy. I like that idea. Your words were worth much more than just 2 cents thankyou!<P>I love my H. I would do anything to save our love. It just feels that I rather lose him to death. Please don't get me wrong. I just mean that I don't know if I could take the thought of him not being in my life because he made that choice <P>I think I will stay on this ride a little longer. I think he's well worth it, but in the mean time as H would say, "Whatever Happens, happens!!<P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

Dear jamie-lee, I AM facing the same situation as you are facing now !!! If you have read my post, you know I have left my fiance three weeks ago but he is still contacting me and dating me, calling me... more and more... and I am still wondering WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING to say "YES" to his date, and not ring off, and still talking nicely to him,,, still let him to kiss my face and hold me hand ALTHOUGH I FIRMLY REFUSE TO HAVE SEX WITH HIM ! <P>I want to share with you WHY I firmly refuse having sex with him - (1) I know he is still having sex with other women (not only one) - so WHY should I having sex with him ? He has enough, I am not willing to put myself act like all his other women... NO NEED. (Of course I am speaking from woman's point of view - maybe if from men's point of view - maybe sex is not that significant... I don't know)<P>(2) I know I will regret if I do it - I don't want to feel regret. (I have left him once before and after a month I agreed to sleep with him again while he still having sex with other women - afterwards, I felt deeply regretful and also feel I am very cheap, and of course USED by him emotionally and physically - I don't want to have such horrible feeling again)<P>(3) Third, I don't really need it or want it. <P>And for your case, you mentioned three times you feel "it was great".. all right, in other words, you liked it and have no regret feelings of doing it. And if you feel ALL RIGHT to have intimacy with him without any feelings as I do, then go ahead, why not ? However, if you know you will feel being used, you will feel dirty, you will feel cheap...etc. Don't do it - don't do something you know you will feel bad afterwards at least you still can control it. <P>Another point is: I don't think you can SOLELY use "SEX" to keep your marriage happily - maybe he will stay longer (because he still can have pleasure with you) - sex is a very important part in a relationship/marriage - but it is not the only thing. If he wants you back, if he really loves you, he will court you without forcing you to have sex wtih him (although I believe 90% men want it - it can reburn the love flame). <P>If you reject him, you have to give him the reason WHY you reject him - otherwise he would just feel 'rejected' and might move away - when he knows the reason (e.g. having other women), if he wants you back, he will do something to cut all contact with other women and show you the commitment. HE CAN DO IT IF HE IS WILLING TO. <P>Anyway, no matter what - just do it if you feel comfortable and enjoyable. Once you feel bad afterwards, STOP it. I wish you well. <BR><Vicky>

Rob,<P>Oh I wish that he missed me. If he did, I would think that he move back in with me. One thing though, we have been getting along much better since he left. At least I think so. When I asked him about the progress we've made, he responds 'what progress?' He says that there is nothing to say that hasn't been said whenever I tried to talk about it, so now I don't even bring 'us' up! I don't know Rob, I don't want to give up, but at the same time, reality hurts. I just hope that he will follow his heart and be led by God as he says. But right now, it seems as though we have two different God,lol. I know the vision that God gave me even before we were married and I try to focus on that to keep me motivated. Call me crazy, but I don't think God changes his mind. I know I'm rambling. I hope all is well with you and thanks!!

Vicky,<P>I treid rejecting him before and he said he respected my wishes and just stopped. Then befro I know it, I would turn around and kiss him and just start it all over again. I just am torn between the fact that he is still my H and that I'd prefer him to get it from me than anyone else, plus the fact I do enjoy it. But the other thing is that I quesstion his motive behind being intimate. Is he using me as thestudent felt and as I feel sometimes or is does he really still love me, you know? Thanks for taking the time to respond. I am keeping in my prayers as well!!<P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

I'd guess he's not really sure of what he wants to do...maybe even changes his mind back and forth. <BR>I love my H, enjoy having sex with him, and decided that it was ok with me to have sex w/o knowing whether he will end up staying or not. (This is not the same as having it w/o feelings...it simply means I acknowledge that if he leaves, the pain will be based on losing him, not on how many days or weeks it has been since we last had sex).<BR>You sound like your reasoning is similar...SO, ENJOY!!!<BR>Kathi

<BR>jamie-lee,<P>I think the other posters are really on target about the sex thing. If you're comfortable with it, then you have a lot to gain by doing it with your H. I don't think you should do it if you feel used, though - the resentment would spill over into other interactions with your husband, and that can't possible do any good.<P>I am really struggling to explain your H's behavior to myself, and frankly, his behavior is unusual to say the least. I'm reminded of a line in the Frank Pittman book _Private Lies_ where Pittman mentioned that he'd seen people stay in truly horrible marriages that objectively had no hope of working out, and he'd seen people leave (because of infidelity) pretty good marriages. He was left to conclude that it wasn't so much the objective quality of the marriage that influenced people's decision to divorce, it was more a function of the person's [i]expectations[\i] about what a marriage should be. If the discomfort from a violated expectation about marriage was too great, then the person filed for divorce.<P>If we operate under the assumption that Pittman is right, it might explain your husband's bizarre approach/avoidance behavior. While he loves you, and desires you sexually, you have (in his eyes) destroyed some marital ideal (i.e., "my wife would never sleep with another man") that he's always held. He doesn't quite know how to rectify his love for you against this perception that his ideal is forever destroyed. If I'm right, a logical intervention would be to discuss with him what he believes an ideal marriage is, and convince him that he can still have that ideal with you.<P>Just a thought.<P>Bystander

Jamie-lee,<BR>I kept hanging on because my H would vascillate one day from tears-in-the-eyes-I-love-you-so-much, to the very next day I-have-no-respect-admiration-or feelings for you. Oh, and he expected sex on demand too. He pitched a fit when I suggested we not have sex. He said "great, my wife cheats on me, and now I don't get sex". <P>People who say "whatever happens-happens" are basically people who can't or won't take responsibility for their own lives or for their own behavior. No wonder why you don't trust your husband. He has not done anything (except keeping his physical presence somewhat available) to show you that he really WANTS your marriage. So, he says it is not about your infidelity. Ok, bub, you've had two years to figure out WHAT it is about and do something about it. <P>I think my ex-H was waitng for Tinker-Bell to touch him with some magic wand and make everything all crystal clear, and that he'd magically have all of our problems solved and he'd be magically in love with me again. Really, this is not the attitude of someone who can stay in a long-term commitment, infidelity or not. Marriage, and life in general, is a process. Some of the things that are the hardest to do (marriage, children) can be the most rewarding. If the secret to a great marriage were canned in a bottle, there would be no such thing as divorce. There is no way around doing the hard work. You can't grow a rose unless you till the soil. What he is vascillating between now is you and the vision of someone-new-in-the-future perhaps. However, Tinker Bell won't magically touch replacement girl either, at least not for long. Hopefully he'll figure this out before you are too much more drained.

<BR>TheStudent,<P>I agree with you that maybe jamie-lee's husband is vascillating between her or a replacement wife. Its consistent with what I posted before, that he might be struggling with a violation of expectations. I was thinking that jamie-lee's one night stand destroyed some belief he's holding about what a marriage should be. The question is whether he can come to grips with what's happened. While most people can get past infidelity, not everyone can. <P>My caution at this point is jamie-lee's husband is in a fragile state right now. This April deadline seems to be very real (although it isn't) to both jamie-lee and her husband. Personally, I think jamie-lee should seriously avoid copping a "sh*t or get off the pot" attitude with her husband right now. Yeah, its been two years, but crunch time is still two months away according to this April deadline. And I'm not really convinced he wants to leave, although two months of ugliness could push him right over the edge. JMO.<P>Bystander

Bystander,<P>While I agree that Jamie-lee will attract more bees with honey than with vinegar, I was responding to the tone of her first post. <P>Ok, we can all agree that her husband is vascillating. How she decides to deal with that is pretty tough. She still needs to take care of herself. I've been where she is at. It is no different than if she was having an ongoing affair and won't make a decision to recommit to the marriage. Being the "betrayed" does not give him carte-blanche to do whatever he "wants". It sounded to me like he has a pretty good deal going on now. He goes and hangs with his friends all weekend, then comes home and rolls into bed with Jamie-Lee. Deadline-schmedline. He can hang this over her head indefinately, if she lets him. Like I said. Been there, done that. <P>two months of ugliness from whom? him or her? what happens when April rolls around? This is stupid. I'm guessing the world isn't going to turn upside down for her or him in two months. My guess is he wants to use her for whatever its worth till he's free in April. My ex had all kinds of "deadlines" too. Basically, it is just a power trip. No wonder he hasn't made a decision. Ok, like "you be a perfect angel and I'll THINK about staying with you for another two months, and then another two months, and another two months". I'll PASS thank you. What about all the time they spent together before the affair? Just because he's having sex with her doesn't mean he's even close to being in the marriage. They say "why buy the cow if the milk is free?" <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited February 25, 2000).]

<BR>TheStudent,<P>The pain of your husband's rejection of you is still very clear. I can hear it in almost every one of your posts. Not to pry, but are you in counseling?<P>Anyhow, I agree that the betrayed can't use infidelity as a weapon forever - that's not a marriage at all. But the fact is, they both seem to think that the April deadline has some meaning here. If he's really free to leave in April, I just can't see how getting ugly with him and/or leaning heavily on him to make a decision before then can help the situation. The fact is, if *he* thinks he's free to walk in April, copping a bad attitude with him now WILL help push him out the door. IMO, jamie-lee is better off waiting until then. Come a few weeks after the deadline, I'll be more inclined to agree with your views.<P>Another thought crossed my mind when I was over at the gym. Is it possible that her husband wants to divorce, equalize the sex partner thing by sleeping with another woman, and then get remarried? I've heard of such things happening. They can "get back" at their spouse by having post-marital sex, without calling it a revenge affair, and then they quickly remarry.<P>Bystander

kathi,<BR>yes the pain of losing him is what really hurts. It's not really at all about the sex. I really just want to know where he is coming from. His actions and words can be totally opposite at times.<P>Bystander:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>While he loves you, and desires you sexually, you have (in his eyes) destroyed some marital ideal (i.e., "my wife would never sleep with another man") that he's always held. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have to agree with this statement. H once said that he loves me and always will, but a part of him has died. However, he says it not just because of the one night stand, but a combination of things and that somewhere along the way when he wanted to make things work, he found himself doing what made 'him' happy and not what made 'us' happy. He said once, that he wished he could change the way he felt because then he could be the H and father that he visioned himself to be. He says that he will not make himself feel nothing that he doesn't feel. And he does not feel for me,what he should, to remain as H and W. SO I say, yes this is all logical thinking, but why can't he say, dammit I love her and I will fight every dead emotion that is contrary to how I feel for her in my heart. I just want him to feel as if I'm worht fighting for. Because I AM a good woman. <BR>I haven't been mean to H in anyway. As in what I mean about the [censored] or get off the pot is that I wish he would just start working on us or leave me alone. Well, maybe I don't mean that either. I just want him to, dammit, I don't know!! But Your words have enlightened me and cause me to look at this from a different view. Thank you!! <P>the student,<BR>I think the only difference my H and yours, is that he has never held my A over my head in words. I do think he has held it over my head in a way, in his actions. But he has never mentioned A to me in a negative way. He says that it took two to bring our marriage into the state its in. It's like he does recognize where we are and where we could be, but is not doing anything about it. He'll use that sorry for an excuse reason that its him and not me. My h responses just seem to be so unusual to me as well. He says that he wants to pursue friendship with me and has done nice things for me. A year ago we fought like cats and dogs, but since Oct when he came back from six month float, we seemed to get a long better. He bought me x-mas gifts and even took me out for my birthday last month. He's not once left me hanging when it comes to finances. Though we split up our accounts, he still pays for half of rent, utilities, and daycare. Actually throw in extra sometimes. And when he comes over, he's actually nice to me. Maybe he's trying to be the nice guy that he truly is and let me down easy. But there is nothing easy about this. Maybe I know alll the answers, but just don't want to face it, maybe it is over. Maybe he does want to start new and find someone else.