Just want to aks some questions about the 'fog', hopefully someone can get me an answer. How long does it take to clear? What is it really stand for? Is it the mindset and the emotional longing for the other person, that is clouding the thinking of the WS. Can the BS do anything to make this fog dissippate faster? SHOULD the BS do anything to make this clear faster? Is it possible for the WS to really lock out the OM from her thoughts? I feel that every time there is a love song on the radio, she must be thinking of OM. Every time there is a romantic moment in a movie, she must be thinking of OM. Am I right? Am i going crazy? If she tells me she is willing to do anyhting to make things work for us, how do i know she means it? She tells me she never felt so strong towards me as she felt for OM, EVERYTHING was so perfect. Is this the fog talking? We talked about past events, moments that prove that she felt very strong for me, but can it be true that she may feel stronger for OM, then ever felt for me? I love her very much and show it to her and make her feel this, but i feel that she is not very receptive to my feelings.
Please reply if you have answers.

My situation:
BS-32
WS-30
A-9 months
D-Day-11/12/02
Children-2 boys (5,3)
Committed to build new future together

HurtInHeart--

I'm not a Fog expert but I've been living with it in my own life for almost two years now and have been reading about it and its devastation on this board for over a year now. I'll do my best...

First, welcome to MB. Your questions are good ones and I'll give you my thoughts and responses.

How long does it take to clear? -- Unfortunately, that's open-ended. All I can say is that it takes time; it's a process and has to run its course on its own schedule. Sometimes it never clears until it's too late, sometimes I've seen it clear in a few months. Average: probably a year and a half.

What is it really stand for? -- The Fog makes it impossible for the WS to see, think, or act clearly from a rational and objective standpoint. They don't see what's wrong with their behavior but everyone else does. Which leads to...

Is it the mindset and the emotional longing for the other person, that is clouding the thinking of the WS? -- Yes, that's very much what it is.

Can the BS do anything to make this fog dissippate faster? -- The word around MB is that there's very little if anything that a BS can do to make it clear up any faster. Some try by confronting OP or notifying OPS, but it seems that that often backfires and the WS "digs in" even more. Best advice: work on yourself in the meantime. That way if if all works out, you're a more desireable package; and if it doesn't, you're STILL a more desireable package.

SHOULD the BS do anything to make this clear faster? -- Partially answered above, but the line here seems to be No! Since the average A dies on its own anyway, and since there's little to be done to hasten its well-deserved demise, stay out of the way and hope for the best.

Is it possible for the WS to really lock out the OM from her thoughts? -- Yes, but it's going to take time, lots of time, and great patience and love on your part. If this is a recent A, it's probably not going to be possible for some time.

I feel that every time there is a love song on the radio, she must be thinking of OM. Every time there is a romantic moment in a movie, she must be thinking of OM. Am I right? Am i going crazy? -- No, you're not going crazy with any of this and she may in fact be thinking of OM during those times. You are perfectly normal to think or suspect that-- we've all been there with our situations.

If she tells me she is willing to do anything to make things work for us, how do i know she means it? -- Well, you don't, but at least you would be getting that much out of here and that would be a good thing. And she may mean it today and forget about it tomorrow. Be prepared for glaring inconsistencies and many ups-and-downs with those statements.

She tells me she never felt so strong towards me as she felt for OM, EVERYTHING was so perfect. Is this the fog talking? -- YES! ABSOLUTELY! That's what the fog does, makes them actually think that this illusion is reality. Please find and read WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses elsewhere on this site--there's a link right here in Just Found Out. Everything you need to watch out for is in those Guidelines--they're wonderful!

We talked about past events, moments that prove that she felt very strong for me, but can it be true that she may feel stronger for OM, then ever felt for me? -- Hardly likely. I've found that attempting to rebut these absurd comments and feelings from WS's is futile. Don't waste your breath. You KNOW the truth here, she doesn't. You KNOW your history and the depth of your feelings for each other = that's reality. But The Fog insures and promotes fantasy, makes certain that your history is put on the back burner while this new dinner is cooking up front.

I love her very much and show it to her and make her feel this, but i feel that she is not very receptive to my feelings. -- And she won't be until The Fog has cleared and she's come to her senses. It is a sickness, a "mental" illness. She's made some very bad choices with her actions and until she takes full responsibility, is contrite, and begs your forgiveness, you won't really know how this is going to play out.

Remember, you didn't cause this A, she could have chosen other paths to her happiness, but she didn't and now you've left picking up the pieces. I'm sorry for this mess but I'm glad you're among us now; it's a very good place to be. We'll help you all we can. Please post again and let us know how you're doing.

Ammon

"What does it stand for? "
The FOG isn't something we, as BS's, made up to explain or justify our WS's actions. It came as a description from so many WS's as an explaination for their actions during the affair and right after discovery. "I don't know why I said that,,did that,,didn't do that,,,it's like I was in a fog,,a Twilight Zone. I just didn't think,,have no idea WHY" From the many variations of the same responses we came up with the shortened version calling it the FOG.

"How long does it take to clear?"
That is as different as the many people involved here. For some it is over at the time of discovery. For some it last months and months later.

"Is it the mindset and the emotional longing for the other person, that is clouding the thinking of the WS."
I don't see it as the "longing" for the OP at all. I see it as the fantasy that clouds their thinking. And that fantasy doesn't have to actually involve the OP at all.

"Can the BS do anything to make this fog dissippate faster? SHOULD the BS do anything to make this clear faster?"
Be yourself. Be the very best YOU you can possibly be. Reality will dawn and the WS will wonder "what in the world was I thinking".

"Is it possible for the WS to really lock out the OM from her thoughts? I feel that every time there is a love song on the radio, she must be thinking of OM. Every time there is a romantic moment in a movie, she must be thinking of OM. Am I right? Am i going crazy?"
No, you are NOT going crazy. I think many times, we, as the BS's read a much more romantic meaning into the emr's than was ever a reality. Chances are you are thinking much more about it than she is.

"If she tells me she is willing to do anyhting to make things work for us, how do i know she means it? "
Talk to her. Explain to her your fears and ask your questions. Is she is sincerely willing to do anything to make this work, she will give you honest answers. Are you two in counseling?

"She tells me she never felt so strong towards me as she felt for OM, EVERYTHING was so perfect. Is this the fog talking? We talked about past events, moments that prove that she felt very strong for me, but can it be true that she may feel stronger for OM, then ever felt for me?"
Sure it was "perfect". No bills, no home repairs, broken down cars, job problems, etc...it was not reality. And yes, she will feel differently, IF she is sincere about rebuilding the marriage when she examines HER role in her choices and the effects of those choices.

"I love her very much and show it to her and make her feel this, but i feel that she is not very receptive to my feelings."

Keep reading, keep posting, keep asking questions. Your willingness to work on the marriage and to understand the dynamics of relationships shows you care. Keep up the good work and stay strong. There IS hope!!

ammon and nearlycrzy, I would like to thank you both for posting and answering some of my questions. It helpos a great deal in confronting my thoughts, feelings and emotions, which are all in a total chaos, a turbulent storm. I feel that I am calming down a bit although it has been less that 4 weeks of D-Day, and there are still days when I am totally washed up. How long does it take to get the pain to ease off, to have the thoughts, but without the twisting knife feeling in my heart? WF is extremely supportive, she is telling me that she is looking at me in a different way than before, she appreciates me for everything I do, and she is totally recommiting to our happy fufture, and she swears eternal commitment and faithfullness to me, and is telling me that she is developing warmer, more intense feelings towards me every day. Is this possible after just 4 weeks after the A? Could this be an added effoert to calm me down and to take my mind away from the thought of her straying again? If I know what is her most important emotional need, and I feel that there is nothing I can do to fully satisfy that need, but i can satisfy all the other ones she has, do i stand a chance of getting her to fall IN LOVE with me again? Will I be able to keep her happy in the long run if that most important need is not satisfied? I know i am asking a lot of questions, but the more info I have the easier is to deal with everything. I will be posting on our progress also, we had a great weekend without the kids, we finished our Christmas shopping, decorated the tree, together, spent quality time together, had long talks about our future, feelings and emotions, even had passionate moments. It felt great although I always think of the typical "how do I compare to OM", and that always bothers me, will I get over this at all, and if yes, how much time will have to pass.

I really appreciate the answers to my questions, and yes this is a great place to be in, and the support is tremenduous.
Thnak you all, hurtinheart

Hurtinheart --

With less than four weeks since D-Day, you're still going through shock and raw, open, and massive wound recovery. It's normal that your thoughts and emotions are still upside-down. You need to be there, as you need to go through the process, and each stage not only takes time to work through but often overlaps. No matter how absolutely hopeless you may feel at times, you HAVE to hang in there and stay the course. We're here for you, to help with our thoughts and perspectives. I'm very sorry for all of this mess in your life. Thank you for the update. Now to your questions:

How long does it take to get the pain to ease off, to have the thoughts, but without the twisting knife feeling in my heart? -- It varies with each individual and with each situation. Several months is probably an average. Remember, that each day brings you closer to that time, so you're making progress toward that goal right now. My D-Day was a year and a half ago and I still feel it every single day, but it's not as frequent and less intense.

It's a very positive thing that your WF is extremely supportive. It's perfectly natural to be suspicious of her words at this point since your trust has been shattered, but it's also quite possible that she is sincere and contrite and that she genuinely wants to help you and put your relationship back on track. It is "soon" for this attitude from a WS but not unheard of.

Could this be an added effoert to calm me down and to take my mind away from the thought of her straying again? -- Is this possible? Yes, it's possible. Is it likely? I think not, but I'm inclined to extend the benefit of the doubt here. Keep an eye on things and on her. You'll know whether or not she's trying to manipulate after a time.

Do I stand a chance of getting her to fall IN LOVE with me again? -- Always. She's not really "out of love" with you now, although she thinks she is--see what The Fog does? Obliterates all reality.

Will I be able to keep her happy in the long run if that most important need is not satisfied? -- Maybe I've missed it in your earlier posts but I'm not sure what you mean with this? What is her most important need...and why couldn't/wouldn't you help it to be met? Help me out with this one.

I'm very encouraged that you and W had warm and positive signs to build upon. Try very hard to keep any "comparison" ideas out of your head; those thoughts will only erode and impede.

Will I get over this at all -- if you mean by "get over this" will you forget about it? I think we never completely forget about the violence and pain...and perhaps we shouldn't. It lessens with time.

How much time will have to pass? -- it's a process and it has to proceed at its own pace. How much patience have you? How much is this restoration of your relationship worth to you? That's how much time you'll need to give it. It takes as long as it takes.

You have two beautiful young boys. Give them an extra hug or three. Let them know what's going on (in their language) with their family, that none of this is their fault, that both Mommy and Daddy love them so very much. They're very innocent victims.

Hang in there. Post anytime you want to. We're here for you. I wish you well...

Ammon

Ammon, thanks again for your reply. You are one special person who can give so much support and make everything so positive that it really helps coping with all kinds of issues. One of the things you wanted me to clarify is the one emotional need she has that I feel i may never be able to satisfy. She told me that she likes the way OM was kissing a lot more than the way I do, and it made everything so much easier for her , like being sexually intense and passionate etc. I asked her to explain to me what it is that i need to do different, although I do not want to be like OM is, and I know I never will be like him. She mentioned that OM kisses like the first guy she ever kissed, and maybe that is why she is so pleased with the effects of his kiss. I was also thinking that this is partially fog talk, since she mentioned to me instances when she just could not get enough of my kiss, but lately she does not want to kiss long and passionate, yet she is telling me that this is what she would really like. Another BIG obstacle that I feel we have to get over is the presence of OM. She constantly reassures me that she totally blocked him out, has absolutely no feelings for him, and if there would be anyhting awakening in her towards him again, she would tell me right away, but this guy is a close family friend, someone who we play cards with every Monday, someone who is in the same group of friends and we meet at almost every event there is. I spoke to him, told him that i forgive them for what they did, but I asked him to be honest with me from here on. He has a very strong sense of guilt, and he did mention that this is the hardest part for him to deal with not the loss of the A with my W. We talk on the phone occasionally, we skipped the cards the first couple of weeks after D-day, but since we do not want our friends to find this out, we re started playing. We do not meet as often as previously, and they both told me how much they regret for what they did to me, and promised that it woul dnever happen again. I am trying to think positive, and say to myself that we may be the exception to the rule, we can be strong enough to recover, even with occasionally seeing the OM. Am i naive? Is this possible? I know that probabaly 99.9% of the people in this site would say to drop him from our companionship, but can we recover and still have him around?
Thank you for your support,
hurtinheart

hurtinheart,

Ok, I think you know the answer to your questions. She isn't kissing you much now, and she tells you how good OM does kiss her. Does this sound like someone who has put OM completely out of her mind and thoughts? Why don't you ask her.

Why don't you tell her you feel like you are constantly compared to OM?

I think you two would be well adviced to remove yourself from OM's presence. I don't know about you two being the exception. Exception to what?
Have you noticed anything exceptional about the A? Anything exceptional about your marriage? Your W doing anything truely exceptional to protect you?

Sorry HIH, this is pretty run of the mill stuff around here. Can your marriage recover with contact with OM? Maybe, how knows. But, you two really need to let this have the proper time to heal. It seems to me that you and your W are rushing something that does take a long time. Further, you and she both need to address why this really happened. I doubt seriously that it is just because he is a good kisser. If it is, then there are severe problems that she needs to see a counselor about.

It is good that you two are working on this. It is bad that you want to get back to life as usual with OM and friends included. You cannot run from the fact that this has happened. It has and will change both of your lives forever. I truely think you two need to go slow, go with love, and admit that you cannot hide this elephant under the living room rug.

Those are my general impressions.

God Bless,

JL

My wife's "Fog" lasted until she met the OM and slept with him. He wasnt what she expected him to be, the EA was more enjoyable then PA im told. Guess maybe the "FOG" depend on th PA more then the EA.

It is possible your wife's PA wasnt what you think it was. She could have been only after emotional needs or attention which are much easier to forget. Especially if your meeting her needs now. She might not need to even try to forget the OM, she might not have any feelings.

Im think the PA's are the kind of affairs that the "FOG" is nearly impossible to get over.

If the OM is such a great friend he wouldnt have hit on your wife, which probably is what happend and she responded to him. I wouldnt allow my wife or the OM anywhere near my family. Its really sad to hear that the OM is sooo sorry, ask him if it's ok to sleep with his wife or girl friend.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Im think the PA's are the kind of affairs that the "FOG" is nearly impossible to get over. "</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would agree with this statement IF the PA was an extension of the EA and the sex was very good. The WS then usually has an extremely difficult time in becoming intimate with the BS, because not only of the missed sex with the OP but because the act in and of itself is a trigger that reminds the WS of the OP. It takes a lot of committment and patience on the part of both WS and BS to reestablish intimacy. But it's not impossible if the will is there.

Thank you for all your replies. I know that it seems that we may be moving to fast, and I know that it will take time to get over most of the things that happened, and I may never get over some of them. I did ask my W if she put him out of her mind, and she constantly tells me that yes she did. She is writing me beautiful e-mails, talking to me, telling me how she wants us to be happy and forever together, even mentioned a third baby down the line. I am worried about OM's presence, but she did mention to me that if I feel uncomfortable with him being around us sometime, she has no problem not seeing him at all. It is the elephant under the rug that really gets to me, it woukld probably cause more damage within our families, and would totally ruin the circel of friends we have. OM did mention that he will pull back, and even if my W tries to contact him, he will push her away and let me know about it. Do I trust this? Not for a moment, but I am trying to trust my wife, and I am very committed to saving what we have and build something wonderful with all the help we are getting through advice, books, articles etc. I will take all your suggestions into consideration, and will give it time, a lot more time, will take things slow, will do it with love, and will post lots more.
Thanks for all your comments.
HIH