I've posted recently under "Trial seperation, Now what", and now my situation has become very, very desperate. I just don't know where to turn or what to do.

The sorry is a long one, but you all should know facts in order to assist me. I'm a bit disappointed on the quantity of replys. I REALLY NEED SOME ADVICE AND VERY SOON!!!

Please go back to read my story at the referenced post title - Topic: Cheri/Harleys.... Trial seperation, NOW WHAT?

Below is whats happened since. Please I'm feeling so very desperate and unsure about what my next step is.

No matter what I say to defend myself or when I'm discussing issues of concern for us, he just won't hear me. He believes what he believes, what others are telling him. Even this so-called therapist he's been seeing has told him that everything he's doing is just fine.

How is treating a human being (especially a spouse), so disrespectfully, to criticize, or belittle, or running away from a situation that THEY caused, just fine to do.

My Plan A doesn't seem to be working, so now what? With his lack of empathy or understanding, how can it? His only concern about my threat of suicide, was purely a financial one. It would de-value the property if someone killed themselves in it. What a completely horrible thing to say.

Also he claims that he had a moral obligation to tell his mistress that I had found out where she lives and that I had followed him that one night. Again defending her. Said that she was an innocent party in all of this. She should know. I told him that he was the one that involved her into our situation. he did not have to tell her a thing.

He says I need to be institutionalized. I explained that the way I'm reacting to this is emotional not being crazy or pose any sort of threat to anyone. That there won't be "an us", if it's to continue the way it has. I think he's just using everything he can to justify his actions.

I've tried depositing into his LB, but I don't think he's ready to receive. I wrote an email to him, being very supportive, agreeing that there won't be "an us", if the A continues or the verbal abuse continues. But I would enjoy a chance, when he's ready and willing, to rebuild our marriage. (God help me again, even after all of this, could I really be still thinkging that). He's treated this whole thing so horribly, why would I still want this man in my life.

Please help - how should I react to him telling his mistress every little detail about us? What does he protect her so much and not his spouse? Does the A mean more to him than I realize? Should I continue any contact? He's coming over tonight and tomorrow to move the rest of his things over to his new apt., What do I say? How should I act? I need to be there, because I don't know what he'll do to my things.

People please I'm really desperate.

Thanks.

Hope I can help. There is not much traffic here on the weekends though, you may not get many replies until Monday.

You are desperate...for what...you want him, but you don't want him.

It is SOOOoooo common for a S to LB when major dramatic changes happen like this. And in your LBing you have shown him that you are desperate for him...will take him back no matter what. He has you on the back burner and can come home to you if things don't work out (and they probably won't).

To say you are not thinking clearly is an understatement. Your emotions are in a twist...

Begin to filter everything through a "if this were happening to a good friend, what advice would I give her?"

Begin thinking of the WH as a drug addict, and the OW is his drug. He will say or do anything to get to her. It is just a drug though, and not the real thing, like what you both had. He has to hit bottom and realize this on his own though. No amount of coaxing will make him realize this.

What will it take for him to wake up in reality? Have you exposed their A? Have you told family and friends? Not maliciously, but matter of factly, to let people know what you are going through. It's too easy to get into revenge mode.

Then act with class and dignity. Everytime you act desperate you make the OW look better in his eyes.

Read about Plan A and Plan B and see if it's time for Plan B. If you feel you have adequately shown him how much you love him an dfulfilled his most important needs, then it's a good time for Plan B. If not, then a few more weeks of plan A, then a good Plan B letter, and then stick to the Plan B...go dark.

Question is, are you ready? Yes, this may be the end. And this is your opportunity to get used to it...but 9 out of 10 times the WS regrets their decision to leave and find they are in the same kind of R as what they left. How long does it take? Different for every person. Then they will want to come back. During Plan B will be your time to discover what kind of M you want to go back to. And to work on YOU!!!

What to do tonight?

I wouldn't talk about anything serious...even help him pack up. He will be surprised how anxious you seem to get him out. Be CAAAALLLLMMMM. No LBing. Cry when he's gone. have a good time...this is one more opportunity to show him how much fun you are and give him a good last impression.

You can do it!

You are stronger than you may think you are right now!

Lemon13,

Please seek out a counselor who is familiar with MB principals &/or call STeve or Jennifer at MB. You can even send out a request to speak with Cerri (our posting resident expert - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).

Right now you need to back off and don't share all your info with your H. His loyalty is warped and will turn against you on a dime. How much the OW maybe pulling his strings is unknown to you. Many an OW cry wolf and want the WS to hurt the BS.

Remove yourself from this path of destruction. Let them do each other in and you step aside.

Get help for yourself 1st, then learn how to help. Sometimes that kind of help includes not helping.

Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. Also lots of patience.

Read up on SAA (Dr Harley) & Love must be tough (Dr James Dobson).

Learn the difference between plan A and B. Don't be afraid of plan B.

Realize that your H may be setting you up for a fall (with OWs help). Protect yourself, your family and your financial interests of your family.

take care,
L.

I'm fairly new here. I've gotten a lot of good advice. Keep posting and someone will reply. You are not alone in your feelings. Many of us have gone through what you are going through. I've gone through it fairly recently. I had and still have alot of emotions-sadness, depression, anger, lonliness. Its been a rollercoaster ride. I'm still on that rollercoaster but it is getting better slowly. Here are a couple of posts that helped me get through the first few weeks after D-Day...

Primary Rules for Infidelity
First rule of what to know when your spouse is having an affair:
Your emotions and your instincts will lead you in the wrong direction 99.9% of the time.

First rule of what to do when your spouse is having an affair:
Ignore almost all of what they say they want from you, how they feel about what you are doing to fix the marriage and any talk about the marriage, "being over, get over it."

You cannot base decisions about what to do on either of those things. Neither is objective and both are destined to fail.

For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

I know this may not be a big help, but anything is better than going about it blindly. My wife told me so many things like "I haven't loved you for years". "You know we weren't happy" "I want a divorce" and many other things I can't think of right now. At first I believed every word and I felt like dying. I've come to realize that most of what she has been saying is because of the "fog" she is in. So, don't believe anything your husband is telling you, most are just lies to justify his affair. Also, look up some of the statistics of affairs, almost all end. Very few affairs lead to marriage. And if they get that far, the marriages usually don't last either. Also remember that affairs are built upon lies and deceit. You can't have a true relationship built on this. Some other good info is on Dear Peggy internet site. If you haven't gotten the book Surviving an Affair by Harley, I'd suggest getting it and reading it. Most of all, take care of yourself. You are on a roller coaster of emotions right now and its gonna be tough, but you just have to be tougher....

Lemon13,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Posted by Lemon13:
"Because of my threats of commiting suicide, now he won't stop calling me, he says he has a moral and legal obligation to report this information, but doesn't know who to report it with."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Posted by Lemon13:
"Also he claims that he had a moral obligation to tell his mistress that I had found out where she lives and that I had followed him that one night."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Considering what your H is doing to you, to his family, I was very surprised to read that he feels that he has a "moral obligation" to anything! Wow... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Posted by Lemon13:
"Said that she was an innocent party in all of this."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I blame the ws much more than I blame the op, but to say that the op is an "innocent party"??? Again, wow... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I'm not experienced enough to give you advice on what to do. But I can tell you some things *NOT* to do. I learned the hard way.

Right now you are in a plan that I had perfected and became quite skilled at. Plan B&C - "Beg & Chase"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

DON'T DO IT!

DUMP IT!

GET RID OF IT!

STOP IT!

NOW!!

NEVER DO IT AGAIN!

Please learn from me. I am an expert on what NOT to do. When you follow him, do drive by-s, email, call around, trying to reason with him, all that kind of 'stuff', he's only losing more & more & more respect for you. You are looking needy & desperate. Change that!

Believe me, I *know* how hard it is to not do those things. It's just awful. But you will not be able to rebuild without respect.

The ow has sent you an email, rubbing in their trip & relationship to you. Your H laughed & joked when he saw you & your friend drive by. You are enabling them to laugh at you! I've been there too. It hurts & it's ugly. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Please... Stay on this site. Read *everything*! Keep posting. *Listen* to the advice so kindly given to you. These folks *know* what they're talking about. You will gain strength too. You MUST appear strong to your H.

Stop putting feathers in his cap ... put em in yours! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Posted by lost-without-her:
"My wife told me so many things like "I haven't loved you for years". "You know we weren't happy" "I want a divorce" and many other things I can't think of right now. At first I believed every word and I felt like dying."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me too... Me too... Me too...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Posted by lost-without-her:
"I've come to realize that most of what she has been saying is because of the "fog" she is in. So, don't believe anything your husband is telling you, most are just lies to justify his affair."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It took me a long time to reach that point. But, I finally did! And it is *so* true.

Maybe it took me so long to realize it because I did it the hard way. Sure wish I'd had a bunch of been there - done that - big hearted folks telling me, I could've realized it much sooner.

Lemon13, I'm just reinforcing the fact that you are not alone, and there are folks who truly understand, and willing to help you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wow...when I logged on this evening and I see all these replies, well I don't feel so alone now. I thank each one of you so much. I really needed to do this tonight because the past couple of days have been more difficult to deal with.

StillHere:

The thing with plan A is to expose the A. Well I had accidentally posted my message twice and in the other one, I had indicated that I had done some searching on every website I could to get more information on the OW, (and keep in mind whatever intelligence I had came from my H, and we all know that what he's telling me are lies or not the full story), and I came up with hardly anything. As far as I know she lives alone, no spouse. I'm not even sure if she has siblings, if her parents are alive. Only thing I do know is that she did bring my H over to either friends or maybe cousins home. Don't even know where she works exactly. As far as my friends and what family I have, they know. The only thing I can think to do his write letters to what address I did find. Not sure if they'll even get to the right people. So again, how would I go about this part of the plan.

He knows how I feel. I've emailed him, told him in a phone conversation. He tells me, just like she did in her nasty email; "where was this emotion in the marriage?" Like it's too little, too late. Well, as far as I'm concerned, we both did our share of sharing affection, my side was just not enough, I guess.

Orchid & Cocoa101:

I will definitely make some calls into the show. This weekend was all I could do to keep it together for myself and my daughter. Also, him coming by to pick up his things for his new apartment was a tough ordeal of course. And to top it all off, she came home today from her 2 week vacation. Which of course offered to pick her up at the airport. Says he wanted to. Wow, stick that knife in more, buddy..... He had called me to ask if we had received any offers on our home yet, but he had to leave VM. When I called him back, it was about the time that her plane was arriving. Rushed me off the phone and told me that he would be turning off the phone the rest of the evening, not to try to call him back. You know, I'm so tired of him giving me the brush off, and giving all his time and energy to the A. Yes, I know, it's the addiction...especially after being away for 2 weeks. It's just all the mixed signals. Last time I saw him, he complimented me - said I looked real good.....I've lost about 25 pounds in a month, haven't slept, etc. I feel like a mess, then I hear this from him and of course it just brightens me up.

lost-without-her:

I did see the 180 degree list and printed it out. It's somewhere here on my desk, along with tons of other reading material. It's like, where do I begin with all of this. I also visited Dear Peggy's website. Lots and lots of good stuff there.

It sounds like your wife told you the exact same thing my H is telling me and it does hurt, so very bad. It's hard to believe that he had been so miserable in our marriage. He doesn't understand why I'm reacting this way - it was only 2 1/2 years, not like it was a 20 year marriage or something. I told him that it didn't matter, he had my heart and soul, even though I may not have expressed it to him enough. Just yesterday he told me another hurtful piece of information....he's been telling me that the reason he moved out was to see if he could do this alone. I told him that he can't be alone. He's gone from mom, to his first wife at 18 years old, to me, to another brief relationship during the 8 months we broke up, to me again and now to the OW. You see his new apartment is just 5 little miles away from her. Well that got him thinking, so he tells me that he starting thinking about the first few months of our marriage, (it was a tough time, just getting married and closing escrow on a new home, moving, lots of stress), that he wondered if it was true, that we got married only because he couldn't be alone. WOW - I was blown away. It's just one hurtful comment after another.

He's got this therapist telling him all these things that totally contradicts everything on this site and everything I've been reading on the subject. But of course it's based on information that HE gives her, which is only one-sided. I told him that I was shocked that she didn't want me to come in as well. He says the therapist tells me to avoid conversations with me that results in arguments. Well that is the last thing I want to do, however when I asked as calm as can be about the OW, he'll tell me to stop asking or he'll hang up. I guess that topic would be argumentative for him, but I explain that it's theraputic for me to ask and know. He just does not want to discuss it. Which leads me to believe that either he's not ready or just plain doesn't want to re-build our marriage. I'm starting to feel like it's the latter.

So now that she's back, I know his time will be spent there. Now how do I expose this A? Or do I even bother? I know that this will fizzle, that she'll be everything that he complains about me.

I need a game plan because everything I'm reading about the plans, well I don't know if it'll apply in our case. How can it if one spouse just doesn't believe it can work?

I thank you all for your words of encouragement and support. It's so great to have you out there.

Lemon,

You can do phone counseling (not calling the show) with Steve, Jennifer or even check with Cerri. They are all quite good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Also, have you read any of the books I recommended? NOTE: I don't get any extra points for recommending them to you......I just liked the way they helped me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

Yes, I'm currently reading Surving an Affair. I also printed out all subjects from this site. When I had called into the show, Dr. Harley said he would also send me his Renters Relationship book.

Cerri sent me a response once she got her computer bug situation figured out. Still waiting to hear back.

Thank you for the tips. Question though, would you know where I can find info on The Fog, that I've been hearing so much about? I can't find it anywhere except briefly in the What is Plan A / Plan B section. I was hoping to find something more.

Cheers.

Fog is what we call what the WS uses in place of reasoning while they are in an affair. They have a very skewed perspective.

Have you exposed the affair yet?

I figure I will find myself in your situation in a couple of weeks or so. I am trying to psyche myself up to ask him to leave (not sure if we could do a total Plan B with a baby). I don't want to be hanging around for months while the A is still going on.

But your case looks like a perfect way to start Plan B -- he is already moving out. I would definitely be doing the 180 list as well.
((hugs)) to you!

Well, in reading other posts, I've gotten the impression that there is actually reading material on "The Fog". That is exactly where he is. As far as exposing the A, I've mentioned that, my friends know, his friends and what little family he has know, but as far as the OW, I'm not sure how to go about it. What I mean is, what little info. I have about her, I'm not sure how accurate it is. And all I have are mailing address, but still don't know if any part of her family still resides there. Do you think sending letters would be an option?

He has moved out, as of 2 weekends ago. Has his own apartment, at least that is what he says. Needs to be alone, etc. Just before he secure this place, he had extending an invitation for me to come over any time, whenever, like he didn't have anything to hide. Well now, his story has changed. See she's now back from vacation, and I know for a fact that she's already been over there with him. She only lives about 5 miles away, very convenient.

It's just this thing with him saying one thing (giving me a bit of hope), to something contradicting, within the same sentence. What makes things even worse he that he just doesn't want to except any EN's that I could give or provide him now. It's like just one person participating in this mess. Just not fair.

So again my question is, do I even deal with exposing the A or go directly to Plan B.

Thanks all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So again my question is, do I even deal with exposing the A or go directly to Plan B. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uh...you have to expose the affair. That is a crucial part of Plan A. Why would you want to skip this part?

It sounds like she did expose the affair -- his family and all their friends know. Is there more to do?

Hi

Your postings are very simialar to how confused and frustrated I feel right now. I am also thinking how can i do plan A and plan B if it is all one sided?

It does not seem fair that those of us who have been hurt are the ones who seem to be doing all the hard work to make the relationship work again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I have posted a couple of times on this sight and read so many posting and all the advice is brilliant and I agree totally with it yet am scared to put it into action. My H and I are not yet living seperatly but I am looking for a house (we live at his) and have decided on three options, two of which expose his multiple affairs. Unfortunately this will affect his two eldest children but I see no other way around it. Unfortunately it will also make his ex-wife and OW very happy too.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I too have read and printed the 34 point list mentioned and agree whole heartedly with it - but just wish I could act it!!

This is my way of saying you are not alone, not even when you are sitting at home with a coffee in the living room with your girl in bed. We are all here to talk to, moan to, cry to. Anytime.

I'm just starting to get that and it feels good.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Chin up as we British say, but yes it is very hard and very painful.

Hugs

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It does not seem fair that those of us who have been hurt are the ones who seem to be doing all the hard work to make the relationship work again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">tojo,

It's not the least bit fair!!! It's truly awful in fact. There's another fact though.....if you follow your instincts after an affair....you probably won't save your marriage. Affairs are like addictions. The WS's will NOT work on their marriages because they are too drunk with infatuation which releases chemicals....phermones....into their systems. The are incapable of seeing the marriage as a reasonable alternative to the affair. That's what Plan A does and that's what the BS can do (yes it sucks).....in a sense remind them of the reasons that they married in the first place so that the fog can clear a bit. It confuses them. It causes conflict in their new relationships. And unfortunately.....it's all about them. I wish it wasn't so. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You've described my life perfectly! Just when I think we are making progress, he goes to OW. It puts me right back to square one! I really hope I'm confusing him. I can't take this much longer. He says he needs time to himself to think about leaving A. So what does he do on his day off? He goes to OW! We will definitely be talking about this tonight in MC. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Well Cerri,

I too am a Spy-girl. And I've found some pretty interesting things. Of course, they stay in my possession, never to be seen or used again. But I have noticed some activity on his computer, that has to be related to her. so yes, the OW must be going over to his place.

But to my question with Plan A and exposing the affair. Is the feeling that letters or emails are o.k. I was able to locate a list of the OW contacts and I do have a few addresses (I'm assuming friends or family). Even found her resume and her current employer, (at least I hope it is). What about confronting the OW directly? Knowing what my H says about her, she'd probably call the police. Now understanding that my WS will be so furious, not like anything I've seen, I'm sure.

I understand that Plan A cannot repair the marriage, but with the consequences of putting that plan into action, I believe it'll just further distance him. He's already saying that he has no interest in recommitting to the marriage right now. He's so defensive, whenever we do have a conversation. It's funny, the BS is supposed to eliminate LB's, being demanding, disrespectful, losing temper, etc. and I've been trying real hard, but it's him. He's got his defense up, and speaks to me so disrespectfully. It's like an automatic thing. If it's because he's so conditioned to respond to me that way, due to something I've done, well I've apologized to him even before he moved out. But now he just doesn't want to hear anything. And I am not to, under any circumstances just pop on over to see him, like he offered. GEE WHIZ!!

Cerri, you are right in that he won't let me meet his EN's. However you have just met a BS whose WH does not regret what they are doing or who they are causing suffering to.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this or not, but when he's talked to me about his therapist and the things she's telling him, I ask if she's asked him to have me attend a session. He will not allow that to happen. These sessions are about him, not the marriage. Well duh? Isn't the marriage part of him? I even asked him when I start counseling, if he'll attend a session with me. So not open to anything at all.

So please more guidance on whether or not I should expose this situaion. I don't know why I'm on the fence about this. It just feels like this is a unique situation. Or am I just being nuts.

Thank you all for your responses. Keep them coming!!!

Hey Lemon...

I too am a Spy-girl.

Ahhhhh.... a woman after my own heart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


But to my question with Plan A and exposing the affair. Is the feeling that letters or emails are o.k.

Either is fine. Whatever is easier and more comfortable for you.... or any combination of the two. For close friends and family there are some that you might want to talk to in person.

I was able to locate a list of the OW contacts and I do have a few addresses (I'm assuming friends or family). Even found her resume and her current employer, (at least I hope it is).

Yeah, I would contact them. Just keep in mind the things I said on the other thread about keeping it about you and your desire to restore your marriage and not about bashing her or your husband.

What about confronting the OW directly?

Absolutely. That should be done the day you find out.

Knowing what my H says about her, she'd probably call the police.

Then put it in a letter, make a copy, and make her sign for it. It's hard to justify to the police that a letter respectfully asking her to remove herself from an adulterous relationship with your husband is harassment of any kind.

Someone told me yesterday that in MN there is a $3000 fine for adultery. Of course you have to be able to prove it.... Didn't verify the info, but it's what someone told me.

Now understanding that my WS will be so furious, not like anything I've seen, I'm sure.

Yes he will. You need to be prepared for that. And you need to remind yourself that it's the addiction that is generating the rage... not the rational ethical man you married.

I understand that Plan A cannot repair the marriage, but with the consequences of putting that plan into action, I believe it'll just further distance him.

You know, I know it feels that way. But this place where he is.... lost in the fog of addiction and under the influence.... everywhere he goes is away from you. I can't guarantee that doing what it takes to end the affair will result in saving your marriage. I can guarantee that until it ends there is NO HOPE that your marriage will survive.

He's already saying that he has no interest in recommitting to the marriage right now. He's so defensive, whenever we do have a conversation.

Yeah.... as they say around here.... It's in the script. They ALL say that. And they are all defensive. How can he not be? He's betrayed every value he ever had and the one person he vowed to love, honor and cherish and to put above all others.... hard not to be defensive when you're in that place.

It's funny, the BS is supposed to eliminate LB's, being demanding, disrespectful, losing temper, etc. and I've been trying real hard, but it's him. He's got his defense up, and speaks to me so disrespectfully. It's like an automatic thing.

That's part of why you can't do Plan A long term. It is far too emotionally wearing to deal just with that day in and day out... not to mention the little issue of having an affair.

But now he just doesn't want to hear anything. And I am not to, under any circumstances just pop on over to see him, like he offered. GEE WHIZ!!

Think heroin. Think alcohol abuse in the late stages. This is what you are dealing with. It's irrational and the statements made with force and vehemence one minute are negated the next. That's why you can't possibly base your plan of action on what he says. His words are less than the air used to speak them. They are fantasy and myth.

[n]However you have just met a BS whose WH does not regret what they are doing or who they are causing suffering to.[/b]

Uhhhhh..... I have yet to meet a WS who didn't meet that criteria. Having an affair is the epitome of selfishness and disregard for others.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this or not, but when he's talked to me about his therapist and the things she's telling him, I ask if she's asked him to have me attend a session.

Personally I doubt it would be of much use anyway. I wouldn't sweat it. Unless his therapist is very unique she is probably helping him to see "what he really wants and what will make him happy" rather than encouraging him to do what is right.

So please more guidance on whether or not I should expose this situaion.

YES. YES. YES. YES. YES!!!!! Always expose. In very few instances would you opt not to, and you are nowhere close to meeting that kind of criteria.

I don't know why I'm on the fence about this.

Cuz you're human. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It just feels like this is a unique situation. Or am I just being nuts.

I'd be worried if you didn't think yours was a unique situation. LOL EVERYONE thinks their situation is soooo different. When you do what I do, you can see the pattern a hundred miles and six months away.

The things you need to do when your spouse is having an affair are counter intuitive. That's why it feels wrong. And that's why you MUST put your instinct and emotions on pause and follow what very brilliant and very experienced people like Harley have shown over and over again to work.

I see it day in and day out. But I'm sure if it was me I would be having the same fears and concerns. Feel the fear, do it anyway.... wasn't that a slogan for something a few years back? It applies very well here.

Hugs,

C

I just received IM from WS and he said he had about an hour or so and wanted to know if we could get together (in that way, you know what I mean). Jokingly I responded with, "what no dinner with that?" He said that would be possible. I told him that my daughter would be at her dad's house for the weekend, what about then? or even Friday night? said he could do Sunday, but not Friday (he has plans of course). Then asked again about tonight. I didn't respond. He called me on the phone. Again I said Friday was better for me, (just wanted to see what he would say). No, had plans, guess another time.

Well, even though my desire to be with him sexually is still very strong, as it is for him, to be with me, did I make the right decision in turning him down for tonight.

See the story behind all of this, is that he feels he didn't get the amount of affection he needed from me. Or the sex for that matter. Not this is any excuse, but I was dealing with an enormous amount of depression when we first married. I'm better now, that is until all this started. So he believes, and what he's told his friends and the OW is that I was a frigid wife for 2 1/2 years. When the OW sent that email to me, she not only through their Hawaiian trip in my face, but she pointed out that fact as well.

But what he's told people, again is just another way to justify his behavior. RIGHT????

I would love to meet him tonight, but I don't know what's going on with him and the OW, since he won't talk to me about it.

HELP!!