I'm an OW too, so I commend you for what you've attempted to tell Tired Lady.<P>The betrayed don't know the pain that we too go thru. They are are so very hurt (and rightly so) that they feel there's no way that the OW could even be feeling an ounce of pain and remorse.<P>Ours is a very different pain, and I'm not trying to minimize theirs .... but what they DON'T fully realize is our pain when we finally come to our senses and realize what we've done to 2 families ..... our guilt and remorse is real ... very very real.<P>Maybe Tired Lady can't accept your apology right now. You've done all you can, Mia. You've apologized, you're staying away from her H, and you're getting on with your life.<P>You do not have to grovel for her forgiveness though. You are a human being that made a terrible mistake. WE ALL HAVE (yes, even Tired Lady). Unfortunately Tired Lady's anger and hate will continue to eat her alive and cause her to not be able to help her husband thru this difficult time of withdrawal.<P>You might want to stay away from this forum .... if you'd like to e-mail me privately I'd be more than happy to converse with you and help you work thru the pain you're feeling.<P><BR>

Thank you Maya. No plans to hang around here. I am truly sorry for being involved in the cause of the hurt for TL. I would like to email you - please provide an address for me. <P>Again, thank you.

--<p>[This message has been edited by Maya (edited August 25, 1999).]

Maya:<P>I would really hope you wouldn't get any hate mail for befriending a <gasp> "other woman." <P>How are you doing? We haven't talked in a while. Just saw a few posts by you and thought I'd ask what's new, so . . . what's new? <P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P><BR>

Geez, Lonestar, you didn't see all my spewing on the other posts yesterday?<P>I've been running scared because I blasted cl .... you'll have to read up and get back with me.<P>Needless to say, my reputation is shot. Alas, I'm human. I got outta hand and I'm so very sorry about it. I did NOT display God's love in that post.<P>But otherwise I'm doing GREAT! H and I are really really healing! The power of prayer!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But otherwise I'm doing GREAT! H and I are really really healing! The power of prayer!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Then I'll send a "congratulations" card to that email address. That's great news, Maya...

Thanks, K. This time last year I would never have thought this is where I'd be in my marriage!<P>I'm absolutely ashamed of what I did yesterday. I'm looking for grace and acceptance and yet I lash out and judge. I've got soooo much to learn.

You did learn---you realized what you had done pretty quickly.<P>We all lash out: discussing this material is hard and can be sensitive. I've lost it with some posters here as well. One huge lesson that I've learned in my marriage is that learning to say "I'm sorry" and then moving on really can help almost any situation.<P>I'm really heartened to hear your good news.<P>

Thanks Maya, I have it.

Maya, Mia Choice,<P>I am not the OW and I am butting in to express some feelings.<P>Maybe not all OW feel the same way or maybe I should say not all OW realize that they have contributed to causing such pain. Maybe some of them never come to their senses like you stated Maya.<P>I have wrestled with the *desire* for revenge and have come here for support to move past that temptation. The desire comes from the OW's unwillingness to apologize, accept any responsibility, or give the tiniest indication that what happened was wrong. <P>No I do not place *all* the blame for what happened on the OW--I don't even place 50%. She did not owe me anything, she broke no promises that she made to me. But she did willingly become involved with my H. She knew my H. was married, she knew what they did would hurt me (they even discussed it once), and the only emotion she has ever expressed to me was anger. Anger that my H. was no longer seeing her. Maybe that is how she expresses her pain--I don't know. <P>It would make it so much easier to forgive her not that she wants any forgiveness or feels the need for it if there was the tiniest of remorse shown. I admit I am the one that has a need to be able to somehow forgive her--how do you give forgivenss when the person doesn't want it? <P>Maya, I wouldn't in my wildest dreams ever expect groveling from anyone not even the OW.<P>mdj

There was a time that I felt I needed to repeatedly apologize to the OM's wife. I apologized to her face, in an e-mail, in a letter .... I had screwed up her life so badly that I just wanted her to know how sorry I was.<P>I'm not sure if she's totally forgiven me or not. That's not for me to decide. I've done all I could ... but I cannot beg her forgiveness. Her heart must do that. <P>No, it cannot be easy .... I'm well aware. But at some point it HAS to be done for full emotional/spiritual healing to take place. Otherwise the anger will eat that betrayed spouse alive over time.<P>I'm sorry the OW has never showed remorse in your case .... she may never. But you have to release it, as you know. I'm not telling you anything new.<P>

Thank you for replying Maya. I was holding my breath that I could somehow express the way I have been feeling. I have talked to someone about this since I posted about being able to cause pain to the OW by having her fired. <P>This has helped me to realize and understand a little better why I have these feelings of wanting to hurt the OW--I know it sounds strange but I want/need to have some type of closure and for me that is being able to say I do not condone what you have done but you are human, you *participated* in a mistake but you realize it and have shown some type of remorse for it. <P>While I know that I will never be able to totally forgive her for participating in causing such pain--there is some level of forgiveness (for lack of a better word) or closure that would make it easier. Just I will never be able to totally forgive my H. for the pain he caused but because he has expressed his remorse 100 times over but short of groveling --it has helped me in working on bringing closure to this event with him.<P>Her inability or unwillingness to take this step is preventing me from closure and that is where the frustration and anger comes from--I know it is MY problem to deal this need for closure with her. <P>

mdj:<P>I wanted to share an e-mail I got with you... perhaps it will help! Here goes:<P><BR>Life is too short to let things get to you.<P>A teacher once told each of her students to bring a clear plastic<BR>bag and a sack of potatoes to school. For every person they'd refused<BR>to forgive in their life's experience, they chose a potato, wrote on<BR>it the name and date, and put it in the plastic bag. Some of their<BR>bags were quite heavy.<P>They were then told to carry this bag with them everywhere for one<BR>week, putting it beside their bed at night; on the car seat when<BR>driving; next to their desk at work . . . .<P>The hassle of lugging this around with them made it clear what a<BR>weight the were carrying spiritually, and how they had to pay<BR>attention to it all the time to not forget and keep leaving it in<BR>embarrassing places.<P>Naturally, the condition of the potatoes deteriorated to a nasty<BR>slime. This was a great metaphor for the price we pay for keeping<BR>our pain and heavy negativity! Too often we think of forgiveness as a<BR>gift to the other person, and it clearly is for ourselves!!<P>mdj: I hope you will be choose to forgive the OW... not for her but for YOU! <P>Take care and God bless you,<BR>Singer<BR>

Mia's choice, <P>I would encourage you also to not take too personally the harsh words you hear from some here. Emotions run SO high with this particular situation, as I'm sure you understand, and I really see you are trying to do the right thing. Just be aware of how others feel and try not to ask for too much sympathy in this particular forum, only because Tired has found so much comfort here and may feel that it treads too much on personal ground ya know? Just remember everyone involved hurts in some way shape or form, including YOU!<P>Take care and email me if you need to. SmallerTracy@yahoo.com<BR><P>------------------<BR>"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."