I just bumped up your post on GQII... hope you're doing well this morning...

OMBD:
Please do not expect much at all from your WS at this time...I know you need it, you need SOMETHING -- ANYTHING right now .. your pain and anguish are dominating your life!

Understand this, (and do not tell her you understand, just keep it in your head to probid you with some sanity), but she is in a frame of mind right now of resentment (you messed up her fantasy) and shame (OMG I can't beleive I did this) and justifying (Well of course I did it because... [fill in blank, contents don't matter and will change]) and embarrassment (I did this thing, I hurt him, etc) and anger and so, so much more....

The point is, she can't be rational right now and is busy trying to reconcile the facts with the fantasy. They don't go together, but her mind keeps trying to make it fit. That's why she will appear insane to you (and anyone else not wrapped up in justifying an A).

No amount of logic will work. No shame, no moral appeals. Make it so that she cannot keep it a secret. Subconcious messages only (being pleasant around her, letting her 'see' you being normal and balanced (regardless of the turmoil going on inside your heart and your head) Keep it simple. Do things you used to do together when you were dating, and act like it's normal.

Women don't generally cheat because they think they're wonderful and there's just so much of of this wonderful to share, they do it because they think they are awful anyway, so why not do something that makes them feels better about themselves for a while? Maybe applies to alot of cheaters?

Plan A is about making yourself a better person whether it's to stay with her or not. It gives you a focus, a plan and something specific to do. It is really a PLAN, not a euphamism. Write it down, devote time to it, revise it if needed, apprise your progress and/or lack of in a journal. It grounds you in a time when the rug's been pulled beneath you (againa and again, it will seem).

Ask your Med friend about Xanax - be careful - potentially addictive. My biggest prob was with anxiety - lack of control of everything around me. Xanax reigned in the panicky episodes. A lot of people here have done well with othe ADs, but those take about two weeks to begin working.

Get S on ADs if possible! It's smooth out her own emotional swings.

Ignor virtually every thing she says about you, your lives together, herself right now. She doesn't know what she's saying. Just bide your time, spend every moment you are with her in 'regular' 'upbeat' mode, snoop snoop snoop and KNOW what she is doing. Come here for advise on findings and exposure. There is a ton of experience here from those who've made it through what you are going through.

There is a ton of wisdom and compassion here, too.

Without them, I would've left my H or let him leave me.

See if she will read After the Affair, when ready. It gives incredibly accurate account of both the betrayer and betrayed.

I don't mean to come off as superior or wise or knowing it all -- I'm just anxious to quickly share some of the things I've learned since Sep 8, 04.

Everyone is right: DO NOT follow your instincts. Make a plan and FOLLOW it. Even if you feel fake. It'll be worth it, no matter which direction your M goes....

Hope this is a help and not a hinderance,

Restarting

You should be in Plan A...here's a list of some things you should be doing right now!

Plan A is about self-improvement. Changing those things about YOU that were not condusive to a healthy marriage. LoveBuster's is the number one thing to eliminate COMPLETELY. No more Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgements, etc.

Plan A is about appearing (no matter how hard it is) to be strong, self confident and able to "deal" with the A in a pro-active manner.

Plan A is empowering yourself by taking actions in self-improvement.

Plan A is done without informing the WS that you are doing it. WS's have no plan. You are empowered because you do have a plan.

Plan A is about NOT constantly confronting and pressuring the WS into relationship talks.

Plan A is NOT about telling her "I Love You" all the time.

Plan A is NOT about appearing weepy and needy all the time.

Plan A is NOT about laying down and taking all her actions in stride and just "doing nothing".

Plan A is NOT about enabling her A by moving out, loaning money, giving her space, giving her privacy.

Play A is about reaching a point in personal PAIN where you can detach somewhat, emotionally, and think with your mind, rather than with your heart. Your heart will tell you to do things that are counterproductive. You mind, coupled with Surviving an Affair, and these boards, will keep you within the boundries of Plan A.

Plan B is designed only to follow a great Plan A.

Plan A has a timetable, set by you, and typically can run from 3 to 6 months.

Plan A is not for wimps. It takes strength and resolve. There is a horrible amount of pain involved, and you must bear the FULL load of the work that must be done to save your marriage.

Plan A is about "reverse babble". Search Orchid's threads. How to amaze and confuse a WS with reverse babble.

Plan A is about showing your WS that you are the better choice for them, because you LOVED them enough to apologize for your part in allowing the marriage to become vulnerable, and to be the ROCK, by keeping to your principles during these times.

Own a copy of "Surviving an Affair" and read about Exposure, Plan A and Withdrawal. Very important information.

Lastly, keep a positive mental attitude. This can be successful. It was for me.

Best wishes,
SD

Link to Orchid's reverse babble post:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=019927

<small>[ February 11, 2005, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

i went to work and kept myself busy. big meeting so i had to act normal. i think i did a pretty good job. no shakes today. only cried once. concentration, though not good is a little better.

tonight we had dinner together and watched a movie. a dark british comedy. we both enjoyed the movie and the evening. there was no A talk until we were getting ready for bed when she brought it up. she had ic today and told me about it tonight. she told me that she was no longer going to work on starting a business and she would be looking for full time work. I told her i supported whatever decision she made. shs also said that she and her ic talked about her history of changing jobs and us moving apts or houses every year or so. (we have lived in 8 places in 10 years and she has had 10 jobs in same time) basically, i think they are talking about her lack of commitment to things.

I felt that she sounded a lot better than yesterday so when I told her i was glad she was feeling better she said today was worse and listed a bunch of reasons. I just nodded, gave her a hug and let her go to bed. now i'm here. I have a Q about Plan A and reverse babble. everyone seems to have kids and mostly seem to be female BS. we have no kids and i'm not female. I have made a list of dates I am considering 'benchmark dates'. her b-day at beginning of march, a business trip she can come on end of march and another bus. trip at end of april she can come on. that's 3 months. I plan on plan A-ing until I die if I have to. Are the dates realistic to see even minor improvements or am I kidding myself? will it be harder for her fog to lift since we are kid free? I start ic on monday (valentines day). I have NEVER had a good v-day ever. goes all the way back to 2nd grade. so i view this as the perfect irony. Have lots of family and friends supporting me. And all you too! thanks a bunch.

weekend plans include as little A talk as possible. I am considering going out of town next weekend to visit my brother. her girlfriend is coming up to go w/ her to a concert. I thought a few days apart would be good for me. and her. and us.

onmybday - hns53 asked several of us to drop by and see if we could offer you any help and encouragement.

Having read your thread, the first thing I wanted to say was that I'm sorry you are going through this. As a BS myself, I can relate to all the thoughts, doubts, and fears that are running through your mind as it was 3 years ago next Tuesday when my "nightmare" began with my wife's "situation."

Now, having said that, a couple of comments and a question.

1. READ Surviving An Affairby Dr. Willard Harley and Torn Asunderby Dave Carder. These are NOT optional for you. You need to read them "cover to cover" because right now you have a tremendous "information and knowledge gap" and you need to be "brought up to speed quickly."

2. ALL of what your wife is saying and feeling right now is because of 2 factors; "fog" and Withdrawal. During the Withdrawal phase, all you can do is "hold on" and "maintain." Until that ends in about 4 to 8 weeks virtually nothing you say or do will "register." AFTER it ends your wife will BEGIN to see your efforts.

3. You MUST be in Plan A right now(if you don't understand what Plan A is, READ about it on this website and in the SAA book). You must make changes in yourself to address what your wife might be perceiving as "reasons" to justify her seeking to have some Emotional Needs met outside of the marriage. I know that doesn't sound fair, but if YOU want to remain married, YOU are going to have to understand what EN's are, how they are "ranked" for each of you, and do an honest assessment of how you think YOU have been meeting Her top EN's. Yes, at some point she will have to address the same regarding you, but for now YOU are the rational one who wants to remain married and recover your marriage.

4. I need to know your (you and your wife) "faith status." Are you Christians or not. I ask not to be nosy, but because I am a Christian and much of the advice I offer will be based on whether or not something as simple as "being obedient to God" has any meaning or application for you and your wife.

5. Christian or not, understand that what HAS been how your marriage has been in the past HAS NOT WORKED. Change IS going to be needed. Remember, the "height of idiocy" and the "definition of futility" is: "
Doing the same things over and over and expecting a different outcome."

God bless.

<small>[ February 12, 2005, 02:48 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

(((((((((((onmy)))))))))))

My heart goes out to you. Granted, I was the FWS first in my M, but I can relate to so much of what you are saying.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> everyone seems to have kids and mostly seem to be female BS. we have no kids and i'm not female. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, I so very much understand the 'out of place' feeling. While I'm not a male BS, I also did not fit into the 'typical' MB personality. I came here as the WS, ended up confessing to my H, trying to plan A him (because he wanted to leave the M), AND we had no children! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Sometimes I felt like a square peg trying to fit into a round hole!

I will be honest. Your posts are so very similar to mine when I first came here. Every moment - every action - has you going up or down on the roller coaster. You are looking to see what she wants, you are playing off of her reactions, you are trying to win her back. I did the exact same thing when I was first here.

Shattered Dreams posted some VERY important points to you.....I will bold those that I think are most important for you to focus on right now.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You should be in Plan A...here's a list of some things you should be doing right now!

Plan A is about self-improvement. Changing those things about YOU that were not condusive to a healthy marriage. LoveBuster's is the number one thing to eliminate COMPLETELY. No more Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgements, etc.

Plan A is about appearing (no matter how hard it is) to be strong, self confident and able to "deal" with the A in a pro-active manner.

Plan A is empowering yourself by taking actions in self-improvement.

Plan A is done without informing the WS that you are doing it. WS's have no plan. You are empowered because you do have a plan.

Plan A is about NOT constantly confronting and pressuring the WS into relationship talks.

Plan A is NOT about telling her "I Love You" all the time.

Plan A is NOT about appearing weepy and needy all the time.

Plan A is NOT about laying down and taking all her actions in stride and just "doing nothing".

Plan A is NOT about enabling her A by moving out, loaning money, giving her space, giving her privacy.

Play A is about reaching a point in personal PAIN where you can detach somewhat, emotionally, and think with your mind, rather than with your heart. Your heart will tell you to do things that are counterproductive. You mind, coupled with Surviving an Affair, and these boards, will keep you within the boundries of Plan A.

Plan B is designed only to follow a great Plan A.

Plan A has a timetable, set by you, and typically can run from 3 to 6 months.

Plan A is not for wimps. It takes strength and resolve. There is a horrible amount of pain involved, and you must bear the FULL load of the work that must be done to save your marriage.

Plan A is about "reverse babble". Search Orchid's threads. How to amaze and confuse a WS with reverse babble.

Plan A is about showing your WS that you are the better choice for them, because you LOVED them enough to apologize for your part in allowing the marriage to become vulnerable, and to be the ROCK, by keeping to your principles during these times.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It took me over 6 months (of a year and two months Plan A) to realize that my Plan A was flawed......why? Because it was manipulative. I was trying to follow the MB recipe because I thought if I followed it perfectly, then my H would recommit. In other words, I was trying (in what was not a malicious sense) to control my H's actions - I was trying to get him to recommit to the M.

That is why the emotional detachment and self improvement are crucial. You cannot control her actions. You might be the best H in the world, and she may still leave. Plan A is designed for you to focus on yourself. To help strengthen yourself, prepare yourself, and heal yourself so that you can face whatever may come your way.

Now usually, the WS will end up seeing that their BS is strong - that they are willing to improve themselves instead of focusing on what is 'wrong' in the WS. They will see a strong, healthy, committed person. And that is attractive to them. Usually , the response is to return and commit to the M. But not always.

You will have to learn not to not let your emotions ride on her actions. Do not let her control your emotions. Take ownership for how you feel. Realize that she can't make you happy....only you can. You control your own destiny. You control your own happiness. You might have to change your perspective sometimes.

Focus on you.

If you are not sure what areas you need to improve, ask her. I know that sounds odd - particularly amongst the WS fog.....but tell her that you know you contributed to the vulnerability in the M. Tell her that you are interested in improving yourself, and you need to know why she had the A. It will hurt when she tells you, but that will give you some good starting points.

And then (and this is the tough part for you), YOU must find out why you allowed the vulnerabilities to be there. For instance, if you were neglectful.....you must find out why. And you must protect against that in the future. Just like she must find out why she allowed herself to have an A instead of resolving the problems in the M first.....and she must protect against that in the future.

Oddly enough, in the end (for both the BS and the WS), everything boils down to a few things:

~Owning your own feelings.
~Owning your own actions.
~Improving yourself and your own weaknesses.
~Discovering "why" and addressing the root of the issue.
~Protecting against what left the M and yourself vulnerable.
~Learning to be healthy individuals in a healthy M.

In the meantime, think of this like a 401K....you are investing in something. You have put A LOT of money into it. If you watch it everyday, then it will oscillate up and down. You will be ecstatic one day, and crushed the next. BUT - if you realize you are in it for the long run....and focus on some other things - emotionally detach from your investment....odds are, in the future, the trend will show improvement.

Things will not 'fix' overnight. She will not be sure of what she wants for a while. Oddly enough, neither will you. So don't ride the day to day roller coaster. Turn your focus inward, figure yourself out, and set a goal - maybe 6 months.....then look and see if there has been improvement. If so, then set another goal - maybe another 6 months....and reevaluate then.

I'm sorry this e-mail is so disjointed and lengthy. I woke up early this morning and couldn't get comfortable in the bed again (still trying to get used to sleeping alone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) so I decided to check in with the old MB here!

FYI - if your W would like someone to e-mail, let me know, and I will set up an account. Even though I am a FWS, and my M is not recovering, MB has helped me recover and heal personally. I have learned so much about myself, my tendencies, how I was unhealthy, etc. I would love to be able to help your W with some of that, if she were open to it.

Good luck my friend. Stay strong, and focus on yourself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 1. READ Surviving An Affairby Dr. Willard Harley and Torn Asunderby Dave Carder.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2/3 theough SAA and one other book(don't remember title) Also spending time researching online and here.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 2. ALL of what your wife is saying and feeling right now is because of 2 factors; "fog" and Withdrawal. During the Withdrawal phase, all you can do is "hold on" and "maintain." Until that ends in about 4 to 8 weeks virtually nothing you say or do will "register." AFTER it ends your wife will BEGIN to see your efforts.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hold on and Maintain. That's tough but I'm trying. 4-8 weeks? jeez. Considering that A1 started 4yrs ago and was followed immediately w/ A2, that makes sense. I just don't like hearing it.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 3. You MUST be in Plan A right now ... make changes in yourself to address what your wife might be perceiving as "reasons" to justify her seeking to have some Emotional Needs met outside of the marriage. ... how they are "ranked" for each of you, and do an honest assessment of how you think YOU have been meeting Her top EN's....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everyone says to focus on me and I am strting to do that. I'm very compassionate and this is a tough one for me. I asked her to do the ENQ but she doesn't want to. Said I should be focusing on me not her. I did mine and but she isn't interested now (I know, fog). How can I get to know her needs if she won't tell me?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 4. ..."faith status."... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I grew up Catholic but am not active. (my choice not hers) I am having issues w/ the hypocracy in the church and pray on my own privately. She has no religion that she follows. She does have a strong value system (yeah right) and is generally a good person. I don't push religion on her and have been talking w/ a Lutheren pastor friend who knows both of us. Her advice, "focus on me".
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...Change IS going to be needed...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am a change agent at work. This, though tough at home, is something I know I can do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How can I get to know her needs if she won't tell me?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">~ Ask her why she had the affair.

~ Ask her what she was unsatisfied/unhappy with in the M.

~ Ask her what feelings OM brought about that she did not feel were present in your M.

~ Ask her how she would like to see the M improve.

~ Ask her what she would like an M to be like.

There are many ways to find out the answers without just using the EN questionairre. But you must be prepared for the answers. You must be prepared for the pain associated with these answers. It will hurt. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It will hurt you to find out and discover where you might have failed as a H. It will hurt her to face the betrayal, devastation and pain she has imparted on you, and herself.

You must strengthen yourself to prepare for recovery. It is indeed a journey - not an instant solution. I know you want the pain to go away.....and often, it seems like if you two can just 'do' the right actions, 'do' the questionairres, 'read' the books, then all will be OK.

But there is a lot of internal work that needs to be done by both the BS and the WS. She will not be able to make your pain go away. Just like as she ends the A, you will not be able to take away her guilt and remorse. These are wounds left on the M from an A. They can be accepted, treated, and even healed. But they will always leave a scar.

Funny thing....sometimes scars are not all that bad. They are a reminder of a very painful injury - but they are also a reminder that you were able to heal.

She is right - work on yourself. If she won't answer any of these questions for you, your IC should be able to help you target some issues you might be able to work on.

onmy

I'm so glad to see some others have dropped by to give you input and suggestions! These are some great people and each has helped me more than they know!

I want to share with you one "discussion" between my H and me. It was about 1 month into the nightmare. I had been in a nonresponsive funk for about a week. After D-Day I went into Plan Panic and my H went immediately into Plan A without knowing what it was. When I seemed so unresponsive he got discouraged. From his perspective ... nothing he was doing was working ... he began to lose hope. That was his message to me that night. He felt like there was nothing more he could do.

I'm amazed sometimes how the role of BS or WS can be interchangeable at times during this process. My H as the WS was trying very hard to save his M. And it didn't seem to be working bc I wasn't responding. But I was. Everything he did made a difference. But I was in such pain and confusion .... I know it didn't seem like it was helping ... but it was!

There are two points to me sharing this with you. One is that both BS and WS are confused and in pain. The second is that even when your efforts don't seem to be making an impact ...they are.

I don't know if my M will make it. I don't know if your M will make it. No one knows if their M will be one of the Ms to survive. But a commitment to this process ... a commitment to changing self first .... a commitment to taking care of our S even when we don't think they deserve it .... will guarantee a positive outcome .... whatever that is.

Tell us more about your IC/MC situation. My memory is that you two are going to different ICs. Is that right? If yes, your wife absolutely has to be going to a pro-M counselor. It was one of my no negotiation points at one time. As it turned out, my H decided to see the same person I am seeing. I think that works best. But at the least, the ICs you and your wife see must be pro-M.

Stay strong. Stay committed to the process. Take advantage of the great input we get from others.

h&s
thanks for finding others to talk to me. I needed it. about our ic/mc situation. I would say our mc is pro, but cautious. she doesn't want to put us together if we are going to be miserable. we are only 3 sessions in and she is still gathering background info on each of us. she wants us to be healthy individually knowing that if we aren't a good M won't happen.
Her IC - not sure. When I asked her before hand about it she exploded. Thought I wanted to manipulate her back into the M. Later we talked again and she said his goal is to make her healthy, but that he wasn't anti-M. I'm guessing he is nuetral but leaning pro-M based on what I can tell. She has had 3 ic sessions and when we discuss it (I let her bring it up) she is trying to figure out why she has done the things she has done.
My IC - I meet him Mon at my 1st session. If I don't like hom I'll find someone else. I work an hour from where I live and I found someone in that town to try to save on how much I'm away from work. My immediate super, who is also the top dog, knows that there are problems (no details) and that we are in MC. She is supportive.

This afternoon we went for a drive up to a small town and had cake and a coke at a cute little bakery. The drive there was quiet, but our conversation got better and we talked about a lot of trivial subjects. Better than not talking at all.

Perhaps one of the most overlooked pieces of the puzzle of reconciliation is just spending good, fun, quality time together, reconnecting, just like you connected, when you were courting.

Keep that idea on the front burner. Don't spoil the "occasions" by relationship or affair talks, just enjoy each other's company.

That was key in our recovery.

SD

she asked for a D last night. Is upstairs packing. TOld her i needed a seperation first. No D until I was ready. I still love her but hate her for what she is doing.

((((((((Onmy)))))))))

What predicated this? Was there a fight last night? Has she contacted OM again?

Do NOT let her saying this change how you are acting. In other words, do NOT REACT to what she is doing. Continue Plan A, let her know that you love her and want to be M to her. Continue as planned....even if she moves out.

You will need to be strong. You will need to be steady. You will need to be resolved.

Many times, the BS and the WS will 'cry wolf' with D. You are early, and things will swing both ways for a while. One minute you will not think it's possible to make it. The next, you will think there's no way you won't!

Instead of telling her you will not get a D, why don't you ask her if she will at least try for a certain period of time....perhaps 6 months. Continue working with ICs and a good MC. Tell her you don't expect her to commit right now, and that you both can reevaluate at 6 months.

Right now things are so emotional, neither of you should make any rash decisions.

You never told me if she would be willing to e-mail me......let me know.......

Saturday afternoon we went for a drive up to a small town and had cake and a coke at a cute little bakery. The drive there was quiet, but our conversation got better and we talked about a lot of trivial subjects. Better than not talking at all.

We got back around 4ish. We both did our own things most of the afternoon. Around 8 I went upstairs to just be with her before we both got ready and went to bed. That's when we started talking. It didn't take long into the conversation for her to say that she wanted to go. I was confused and hurt. I said something like, 'ok, i understand that you need to go'. she continued to talk about how horrible she had treated me. I agreed that she had done some horrible things but assured her that she was not a horrible person. We talked until 11. I stayed calm and tried to think w/ my head not my heart. I did not beg her to stay. Instead I asked where she would go. She does not have a job right now (though she is VERY talented and will get one quickly I'm sure) so she couldn't get an apartment. Her parents live out of the country and her brother 1/2 a country away. OM is married w/ kids and also 1/2 a country away. This is not about him. It is about her not wanting to be M. She thought she could just stay here after dropping that bomb on me. I told her that I would not kick her out, but if she wanted to not live w/ me she needed to not live w/ me.

This AM she called her cousins and scheduled for them to come help her move in w/ them. She wanted to just take an overnight bag and than come work out of the house during the day and reloaded her clothes then. I told her that I was not comfotable with that and reitterated what I had said the night before. We looked at our financial investments and I showed her how it would be divided up. I was hoping that the reality of the situation would snap her out of it or at least give her something to think about. We were very civil to each other, actually quite pleasant. I told her that she could have a seperation, but not to expect a D until at least June b/c I needed time to work things out. I told her I was not ready to give up on us yet.

We are scheduled to see each other Thursday at MC. She is also still in IC. I start IC tomorrow. I will continue w/ MC as long as she will.

We never had a fight. We have been very nice to each other. I haven't pushed anything. I know she is in the fog. I am still hoping that things will work out, but want to be prepared in case they don't. I want to be personally healthy. In the end I can only control my own actions and thoughts. I still love her and want to be with her. But I don't want to be with her if its b/c she comes back by default.

My dad came up to stay w/ me for the week. My brother is coming next weekend. A freind came and picked me up today to babysit me while WW packed.

as far as emailing goes, i never got a chance to ask her. I will give you her address but don't feel comfortable posting it. How can I get it to you?

{{{{{onmy}}}}}}

I am so sorry! I can only imagine your pain and anguish right now.

LIT is giving you great advice. Don't react to what your W is saying. Emotions are so intense and confusing right now for both of you. Ask for a commitment to a certain period of time with counseling.

Oh, onmybday. I hope that she is able to postpone whatever urgency she is feeling right now.

heart

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do NOT let her saying this change how you are acting. In other words, do NOT REACT to what she is doing. Continue Plan A, let her know that you love her and want to be M to her. Continue as planned....even if she moves out.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, She has moved out. DO I continue to contact her? Do I let her alone? We are still planning on going to MC. The note she left for me said I could "Call if I need to, or don't / either way I'll understand. ... Unless I talk to you otherwise, I'll see you at MC on Thursday"

Should I call her and say good night? See if she got to her cousins ok? let her know her cat is ok?

Stay in Plan A, don't force things right now. Stay strong and calm, and let her know she's welcome in the home. Plan A is easier when you're together, but not impossible when you are apart.

I'll still refer you to what I wrote earlier.... During this time, any time you spend together should be fun, and a time to reconnect.

I would caution you though, that often when a WS chooses to move out, it is for ONE reason, and that is to continue the affair with less or no interruption.

Stay vigilant, observant, patient and in Plan A.

Continue with counseling for yourself, and see if she shows up.

Any counseling she might do while there may still be contact with OM is useless, just a waste of money, IMHO.

Best wishes,
SD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would say our mc is pro, but cautious. she doesn't want to put us together if we are going to be miserable. we are only 3 sessions in and she is still gathering background info on each of us. she wants us to be healthy individually knowing that if we aren't a good M won't happen. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">onmybday - I need to know, before I intrude upon your feelings, whether or not YOU want Christian counsel.

One reason for my saying that is the quoted statement from your current Counselor. THAT counselor is a joke has NO idea of what a marriage, much less a Christian marriage, should be like. YOU may think she is "qualified" and is "Pro Marriage," but she is not. She is into "be happy" and "feel good" measures. In other words, she is "advising" you both to let your "emotions" control you and your marriage. THAT is NOT what marriage is all about.

So, before proceeding, I need to know if you are willing to obey God whether you "feel like it or not."

I await your response.

God bless you, comfort you, and grant you His wisdom in this time of need.

I have no problem giving prayer a chance. I've been doing on my own already and my friends and family are all praying for us.

I'm at a loss for what to do now. Her brother bought a house recently several states away from here but still not near OM. I do not think OM is even a consideration for her right now. The last few times we talked it was always about her need to be on her own. She is now living at her cousins and I think she is considering moving to her brother's house. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I know he has offered it to her. My dad came in from out of town to stay w/ me for a while and is at the house all day. I am marginally concerned about her coming and taking things and bolting. I know I have the upper hand b/c she had to leave her cat w/ me b/c her cousins have allergy problems. As long as it is w/ me she will stay in town. I still want to work things out but don't see a realistic chance b/c of the "help" she is getting from her family. She is in no condition to be making life changing decisions right now and I don't want her to do something she would regret later. Should I take steps to protect myself? I don't want to think she would get petty, but 5 yrs of lieing isn't a great track record.I left her a message on her phone last night asking her if she made it to her cousons ok and if she forgot anything and that I hope things are still going to be ok. Today I sent her an email w/ a letter (business situation) for her to look over and she has not yet responded. I am sure she would have gotten it by now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Have IC in an hour. Thank God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have no problem giving prayer a chance. I've been doing on my own already and my friends and family are all praying for us. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is NOT an answer to my question.

I'm going to assume that you are very distraught emotionally and not thinking clearly yet, so I'll wait a bit yet.

What I want to know, brother in Christ, is if you are willing to OBEY God no matter what you feel or what the outcome may be. Your quote above about prayer is fine insofaras we are commanded to pray. But your "giving prayer a chance" indicates you "expect" God to answer your prayer the way YOU want it answered. In other words, you want God to do what you command, not the other way around. Think about it.